American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The current stance seems to be having some effect.
By overtly reacting with emotional effect(supply route closed, base cleared out..etc) the message to the world is being sent of drawing a line. Meanwhile.. covert acquiescence by the GoP on waiting for an investigation is keeping the thing going out of control(on a relative scale anyway).
For all the Brouhaha this episode may eventually end up the same way the RD episode did.. question is, how long before dissent starts to form in the military ranks?

Related to that, from CBS:


For Kayani the raid was a personal blow. Under mounting pressure from his increasingly anti-American middle-ranking officers, Kayani has tried to assuage their resentment to Pakistan's partnership with the United States and as well as the 4,000 military casualties in the fight against domestic insurgents — more than double the deaths among U.S. and NATO troops in 10 years of war in Afghanistan.

At a National Defense University session this year, Kayani was grilled for four hours by midlevel officers who wanted to know why they were fighting this war, according to a participant who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

"This is very serious for Kayani. The troops are so angry. They are supposed to be allies with the Americans, and the allies are killing them. He has to be sensitive to their feelings. He has to be careful about his own image and his own safety," said retired Lt. Gen. Talat Masood. "The trouble is Kayani cannot face his troops unless the Americans give a very strong statement that this was a genuine mistake, apologize and compensate in a very big way."

NATO raid in Pakistan undercuts rapprochement - CBS News

 

[blain2]

if you cant kill some NATOes which is very obvious, atleast refuse aid and close supply indefinitely without any conditions or back door dealings

What aid? Do you even know how much of this much touted aid program has been delivered? At last count, only $160M of the 2.5B had come into Pakistan even though this aid program is 2 years old now. The Army chief made the unprecedented remarks that the military aid should be diverted. Currently, the only funds flowing into Pakistan are the CSF funds which is money owed to Pakistan for use of services, logistics and POL. The CSF funds will stop with the stoppage of the logistics from Pakistan.

Killing ISAF/NATO troops opens the door for them conducting operations inside of Pakistan at will, which cannot be allowed at any cost (short of an open war).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Of course, I understand the difference between recognition and acceptance, hence my careful wording.

So shall I take that as a retraction of your earlier argument of Pakistan 'accepting ground realities'?

 

[pakdefender]

The current stance seems to be having some effect.
By overtly reacting with emotional effect(supply route closed, base cleared out..etc) the message to the world is being sent of drawing a line. Meanwhile.. covert acquiescence by the GoP on waiting for an investigation is keeping the thing going out of control(on a relative scale anyway).
For all the Brouhaha this episode may eventually end up the same way the RD episode did.. question is, how long before dissent starts to form in the military ranks?

dissent in the military ranks is a very real possibility and I hope some visting NATO or American fat cat sees the light on the other end of a standard issue G3 really really soon.

 

[VCheng]

Related to that, from CBS:


.................The trouble is Kayani cannot face his troops unless the Americans give a very strong statement that this was a genuine mistake, apologize and compensate in a very big way."...............

A few nice words, a shovelful of dollars, and a pat on the back, and everything will be fine?

Does that sound familiar?

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

So shall I take that as a retraction of your earlier argument of Pakistan 'accepting ground realities'?

Not at all, given that Pakistan is much more than you or I.

(Please see the above response: THAT, Sir, is the reality, describe it any way you prefer. )

 

[VCheng]

dissent in the military ranks is a very real possibility and I hope some visting NATO or American fat cat sees the light on the other end of a standard issue G3 really really soon.

Mutiny in the Army would spell the end for Pakistan, make no mistake about it.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

For all the Brouhaha this episode may eventually end up the same way the RD episode did.. question is, how long before dissent starts to form in the military ranks?

perhaps they are itching for dissent or for cracks and fissures to be formed...but they wont

''dissent'' (read criticism or asking questions) isnt entirely ''denounced'' in the military....as long as it doesn't get in the way of responsibilities, ability to function, and ability to comprehend and carry out orders


on a side note:

'I think we should go to the United Nations Security Council against this,' said retired Brigadier Mahmood Shah, former chief of security in the tribal areas.
'So far, Pakistan is being blamed for all that is happening in Afghanistan, and Pakistan's point of view has not been shown in the international media.'
He called the attack unprovoked and said Pakistan should respond by shooting down NATO aircraft and keeping the supply lines closed.
'Those who say that Pakistan cannot afford a war with the U.S. and NATO, I think we should realize that U.S. and NATO also cannot afford a war with Pakistan.'
Other analysts, including Rustam Shah Mohmand, a former ambassador to Afghanistan, said Pakistan would protest and close the supply lines for some time, but that ultimately 'things will get back to normal.'


Read more: Pakistan gives US 2-week ultimatum to abandon 'secret' airbase and closes border | Mail Online

others may reject or ignore the sacrifices made by men like these....we never will. Their deaths will not go without consequences.

 

[President Camacho]

Someone mentioned the stance of the UAE on the use of Shamsi airbase, so sharing it in here:

Abdullah, Zardari call for closer bilateral relations

Shaikh Abdullah Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, UAE Foreign Minister, met Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari here yesterday as Pakistan grapples with the situation arising from attacks by Nato aircraft on two of the country's posts on the border with Afghanistan that killed 24 soldiers.

The UAE foreign minister and the Pakistan president held a one-on-one meeting which was followed by delegation-level talks, officials said.

An official statement said the talks covered a wide range of issues.

The statement said Shaikh Abdullah expressed hope that the existing close cooperation between the two countries would continue to grow with each passing day for mutual benefit.


The UAE foreign minister assured the UAE's continued support for the people of Pakistan in their fight against militancy and in the rehabilitation of people and infrastructure hit by natural calamities.

Pakistan's Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar and Interior Minister Rehman Malek also attended the delegation-level meeting.

President Zardari said during the meeting that Pakistan greatly values its fraternal bonds with the UAE and is keen to expand cooperation with it in various fields.

Enhancing cooperation:

Zardari hoped that the existing Joint Ministerial Commission to provide a structured mechanism for promotion of economic relations would go a long way to enhance economic interaction between the two countries.

He said Pakistan deeply appreciates the continued interest of UAE investors in Pakistan and added that UAE investors could take maximum advantage of the investment friendly policies of Pakistan in various sectors, including petroleum, banking, telecommunications and infrastructure.

He said Pakistan was keen to sign a free trade agreement with the Gulf Cooperation Council and would appreciate the UAE's support.

Nato raid:

Shaikh Abdullah Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, UAE Foreign Minister, expressed his heartfelt condolences for the victims of the Nato air raid which led to the loss of many Pakistani soldiers when he was received by Pakistani President Asif Al Zardari in Islamabad yesterday.

Shaikh Abdullah expressed his deep sadness over the incident, and called on Nato to issue an apology for the attack and to compensate the families of the victims.

Zardari hoped the UAE-Pakistan joint ministerial committee would continue to enhance trade relations between the two countries.

-----------

I hope people notice the $ubliminal messages here.

 

[Areesh]

Mutiny in the Army would spell the end for Pakistan, make no mistake about it.

It would be a win win situation for your country. No???

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A few nice words, a shovelful of dollars, and a pat on the back, and everything will be fine?

No, since none of that happened with the RD case (CSF arrears remain unpaid to the tune of almost $3 Billion, anti-Pakistan rhetoric went up, and the OBL raid took place)

Not at all, given that Pakistan is much more than you or I.

(Please see the above response: THAT, Sir, is the reality, describe it any way you prefer.

The question is one of principle - your argument has been that 'ground realities should be accepted, and there should be no demands, campaigns and arguments for change' - whether the Pakistani leadership does that or not is a separate argument.

 

[VCheng]

........... whether the Pakistani leadership does that or not is a separate argument.

.... and the ONLY one that matters, no matter how "principled" the viewpoint.

 

[unicorn]

Russian Foreign Minnister Lavrov condemns NATO air attack on Pakistan checkpoints

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has called for an investigation into the NATO cross-border attack on Pakistan’s checkpoints. In a telephone conversation with Foreign Minister of Pakistan, Hina Rabbani Khar, he emphasized the inadmissibility of violating sovereignty of states, including when planning and conducting counterterrorism operations, says a Foreign Ministry statement.

Lavrov "expressed his understanding of the stance adopted by the Pakistani leadership." Pakistan’s minister reported on the response measures taken by Islamabad in connection with the incident, that sparked a wave of public indignation throughout the country.

The Russian Foreign Minister expressed his condolences in connection with the death of Pakistani servicemen in the attack.

It was reported that NATO helicopters on Saturday attacked a Pakistani checkpoint near the Pakistani-Afghan border. As a result, 24 servicemen of the Pakistani army were killed.

FM Lavrov condemns NATO air attack on Pakistan checkpoints: Voice of Russia

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

.... and the ONLY one that matters, no matter how "principled" the viewpoint.

Again, whether it 'matters' or not is separate from your position that nations/individuals should not even campaign for change until they meet whatever pre-requisites you came up with.

 

[SQ8]

.... and the ONLY one that matters, no matter how "principled" the viewpoint.

Lets ask you a different question..perhaps one that may clear up both viewpoints.

It is justifiable for the general Pakistani public to grieve and express their anger, wish for justice in this matter and perhaps request an end to the WoT.. without realizing that the leadership may not take the wishes of its people into account(perhaps for the benefit of the nation in the long term) and that their outburst and the deaths of those soldiers will be in vain.

Or do you feel that the Pakistani people should understand that such incidents will not change the status quo by much, and as much as it will be cold hearted...it is a waste of energy to mourn those men anymore and expect justice as their deaths were in vain. the world is unjust, the bigger stick rules.. and we are not it...

Perhaps something else..?

 

[pakdefender]

Mutiny in the Army would spell the end for Pakistan, make no mistake about it.

Im not talking about mutiny , Im talking about acting on the call of duty that every soldier and officer of Pakistan Army has echoing in his heart.

All it will take is one Sherdil ...