American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Safriz]

@vcheng do you realize that this forum is about bringing hope to a discouraged nation.....? and about trying to show people of pakistan the positive side of the news...
too much negativity is going on all over the cyber and real world about pakistan..
if you want to do the same?

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

can anybody confirm if the cutting NATO routes are 'permanent' or not, and if yes then why the trucks are on the standby position??

trucks on standby....yes.. but they are not going anywhere in the near future.

thats adding insult to the injury

 

[VCheng]

@vcheng do you realize that this forum is about bringing hope to a discouraged nation.....? and about trying to show people of pakistan the positive side of the news...
too much negativity is going on all over the cyber and real world about pakistan..
if you want to do the same?

Please realize something: HOPE must have some SUBSTANTIVE basis to it, otherwise it becomes out and out misleading. That is EXACTLY why the whole nation is in the predicament that it is in, since as a nation we find it easier to keep on hoping rather than assessing the REALITY and then WORKING to improve it.

My words here may not be liked, but they are correct and well-intentioned for sure.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ignoring the unnecessary insult not expected from someone in your position on PDF at least, do you really see hope and energy and resistance rising in Pakistan anytime soon, with special reference to the present incident as a trigger?

Already, negotiations are underway to continue use of Shamsi AFB, and the "permanent" blockage may be only for 10 days.

You words may appear nobler and more idealistic than my brunt pragmatic ones, but facts do support my position more than yours, Sir.

Your position is not one of 'X will happen because of the 'ground realities'' - your position is that the affected party should do nothing to challenge and change the ground realities.

As was the case with your dishonest recollection of the arguments made during the RD issue - your position was not one that supported justice and need for a fair trial and assessment of RD's status, nor in this case is your position one that supports justice and equality, while recognizing that international pressure and mutual dependence will result in compromises being made - your argument is that one should not even call for a change to the status quo.

You continue to act obtuse, perhaps deliberately, to hide the agenda in your arguments - 'understanding the ground realities of international geo-politics' is not the issue here, arguing against calls for change and calls for tangible actions to challenge the inequality and injustice in international geo-politics is the issue.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

My words here may not be liked, but they are correct and well-intentioned for sure.

Your words are analogous to arguing that slaves should stop trying to resist slavery because of 'ground realities' - your words are by no means 'well intentioned' - your arguments seek to perpetuate compliance with injustice and inequality internationally.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

Please realize something: HOPE must have some SUBSTANTIVE basis to it, otherwise it becomes out and out misleading. That is EXACTLY why the whole nation is in the predicament that it is in, since as a nation we find it easier to keep on hoping rather than assessing the REALITY and then WORKING to improve it.

My words here may not be liked, but they are correct and well-intentioned for sure.

Absolute hogwash - hope and hardwork are not mutually exclusive - hoping for change, aiming for difficult goals will in fact act as a catalyst for continued hard work.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But to demand 'equality' at international level, among the comity of nations, nations (in this case Pakistan) must be strong & united internally. Is Pakistan ?

Being seriously fractured internally along ethnic,religious,sectarian lines and with a very weak law & order enforcement it is but natural not many take Pakistan seriously. If Pakistan demands to be treated on par with other nations, it needs iron out its domestic issues first...and that is only the beginning.

To 'SUCCEED' Pakistan perhaps must be the above, but to demand, argue and campaign for change does not require the above - the latter will set the stage for when the nation is politically and economically stronger.

The problem with VC's argument is that he seeks to discourage even 'demanding, arguing and campaigning for change'.

 

[fd24]

My words here may not be liked, but they are correct and well-intentioned for sure.

You keep repeating this statements on numerous occassions - you seem to be in a minority of 1. Ever thought of having a sanity test because only a fool would repetitively say the same thing like " MY WORDS ARE CORRECT?"
Cheng sahib it may be your opinion that you are correct. Our opinion may differ.
The more you repeat yourself the insane in the membrane you sound!!

Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.

 

[W.11]

You keep repeating this statements on numerous occassions - you seem to be in a minority of 1. Ever thought of having a sanity test because only a fool would repetitively say the same thing like " MY WORDS ARE CORRECT?"
Cheng sahib it may be your opinion that you are correct. Our opinion may differ.
The more you repeat yourself the insane in the membrane you sound!!

Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.

Cheng sahib or Chenk sahib

 

[Bhairava]

To 'SUCCEED' Pakistan perhaps must be the above, but to demand, argue and campaign for change does not require the above - the latter will set the stage for when the nation is politically and economically stronger.

The problem with VC's argument is that he seeks to discourage even 'demanding, arguing and campaigning for change'.

You can 'demand' but without internal stability & unity no one will take your 'demand' seriously. Unfortunately the current state Pakistan finds itself in.

I cant speak for Cheng, but when even the citizens of Pakistan are not united and don't respect the institutions, expecting that same respect from foreigners is wrong.

In other words, you need not even demand anything. Just develop your nation internally and the respect will automatically come without you even demanding it.

 

[VCheng]

To 'SUCCEED' Pakistan perhaps must be the above, but to demand, argue and campaign for change does not require the above - the latter will set the stage for when the nation is politically and economically stronger.

The problem with VC's argument is that he seeks to discourage even 'demanding, arguing and campaigning for change'.

I seek to have less hot air "demanding, arguing and campaigning for change" and more tangible stuff, but since it is easier to talk than act, you are more comfortable with that approach that has not changed for 60 long years. Please do carry on as your world comes crashing down around you.

Pakistan can "demand" international respect all it wants, but others will accord it the respect it seeks only when Pakistan EARNS it the old fashioned hard way, just like everybody else.

"Gumaan tumko ke rasta kat raha hai
Yaqeen mujhko ke manzil kho rahe hai"

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You can 'demand' but without internal stability & unity no one will take your 'demand' seriously. Unfortunately the current state Pakistan finds itself in.

I cant speak for Cheng, but when even the citizens of Pakistan are not united and don't respect the institutions, expecting that same respect from foreigners is wrong.

In other words, you need not even demand anything. Just develop your nation internally and the respect will automatically come without you even demanding it.

If 'no one takes Pakistan seriously', all the more reason to work harder and make the country stronger - it is however not a good reason to stop campaigning for an end to injustice and inequality - as I said, they can go hand in hand.

 

[blain2]

I seek to have less hot air "demanding, arguing and campaigning for change" and more tangible stuff, but since it is easier to talk than act, you are more comfortable with that approach that has not changed for 60 long years. Please do carry on as your world comes crashing down around you.

Pakistan can "demand" international respect all it wants, but others will accord it the respect it seeks only when Pakistan EARNS it the old fashioned hard way, just like everybody else.

Talking is fine. There are limitations to what Pakistan can do but we need to continue voicing our disagreement and protesting over this serious instigation.

Pakistan is doing what she can to respond. However a military response is not feasible and Pakistan needs to carry on with the current policy of not giving the ISAF/NATO a reason to ingress into Pakistan.

This reminds me of the situation we were faced with during the Russian-Afghan war. We will take casualties but our current policies will ensure that we keep the leverage on our side for the end game which hinges on us not taking on the ISAF in conventional way. While it is a minor indication, but it is also unprecedented for the Russians and Chinese to speak up on behalf of Pakistan.

Pakistan is already earning respect by saying no to the diktats. The alternate for Pakistan is to lay all of her interests at the sacrificial alter for the sake of others. At that point, you won't hear any negative PR nor see such murderous intransigence as you are witnessing now. But we would be the only losers at the end when all is said and done.

 

[Tayyab1796]

There r a few important questions ...and even considering these questions probably we can find answers :
*Is Shamsi air base really just an airstrip ?
* Why is it so important that UAE's minister had to personally request to Zardari to let them hav it ?
* Why did we vacate this air base in the first place ? (a very important question...)
* Did Zardari really decline UAE's request or its just for common man's consumption by Zardari's spoksperson ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I seek to have less hot air "demanding, arguing and campaigning for change" and more tangible stuff, but since it is easier to talk than act, you are more comfortable with that approach that has not changed for 60 long years. Please do carry on as your world comes crashing down around you.

Pakistan can "demand" international respect all it wants, but others will accord it the respect it seeks only when Pakistan EARNS it the old fashioned hard way, just like everybody else.

"Gumaan tumko ke rasta kat raha hai
Yaqeen mujhko ke manzil kho rahe hai"

Why should Pakistan do only one or the other?

Pakistan should 'demand, argue and campaign for change' along with 'more tangible changes and hard work', domestically and internationally.

Why are you so opposed to Pakistan (or any country) campaigning for change while also seeking to strengthen itself? They are not mutually exclusive tasks.

 

[W.11]

Talking is fine. There are limitations to what Pakistan can do but we need to continue voicing our disagreement and protesting over this serious instigation.

Pakistan is doing what she can to respond. However a military response is not feasible and Pakistan needs to carry on with the current policy of not giving the ISAF/NATO a reason to ingress into Pakistan.

This reminds me of the situation we were faced with during the Russian-Afghan war. We will take casualties but our current policies will ensure that we keep the leverage on our side for the end game which hinges on us not taking on the ISAF in conventional way. While it is a minor indication, but it is also unprecedented for the Russians and Chinese to speak up on behalf of Pakistan.

Pakistan is already earning respect by saying no to the diktats. The alternate for Pakistan is to lay all of her interests at the sacrificial alter for the sake of others. At that point, you won't hear any negative PR nor such murderous intransigence as you are witnessing now. But we would be the only losers at the end when all is said and done.

if you cant kill some NATOes which is very obvious, atleast refuse aid and close supply indefinitely without any conditions or back door dealings

 

[Bhairava]

If 'no one takes Pakistan seriously', all the more reason to work harder and make the country stronger - it is however not a good reason to stop campaigning for an end to injustice and inequality - as I said, they can go hand in hand.

Exactly it is all the more reason to work towards achieving stability internally and not just put the blame on others and sit back waiting for the respect to come.

No its not a hand-in-hand process, a semblance of the former is needed for the latter. You have plenty of examples around like China.

 

[President Camacho]

US vows to ‘carry on’ after Pakistan cuts supplies

WASHINGTON: The US military will press ahead with its war effort in Afghanistan despite Pakistan’s decision to cut off supplies to Nato-led forces after lethal air strikes, the Pentagon said Monday.

Pakistan promptly sealed its border with Afghanistan to Nato supplies after allied strikes killed 24 Pakistani soldiers near the border on Saturday.

“The war effort continues,” press secretary George Little told reporters.

Asked how long US and coalition forces could operate without supplies from routes running through Pakistan, he said: “I don’t have a time line to share. But the important point to focus on is the war effort will continue. Everyone realizes we have an enemy to engage in Afghanistan and the US military is prepared to carry on.” Nearly half of all cargo bound for Nato-led troops runs through Pakistan.

Roughly 140,000 foreign troops, including about 97,000 American forces, rely on supplies from the outside for the war in Afghanistan.

But the United States also depends on Islamabad’s tacit cooperation to wage war against al Qaeda and Taliban militants inside Pakistan, with the CIA carrying out an intense campaign of air strikes using unmanned drone aircraft.

The top US and Nato commander in Afghanistan, General John Allen, has asked US Central Command to lead an investigation into the air strikes, Little said.

The American military’s Central Command oversees US forces in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) sent an initial assessment team over the weekend to the border to collect facts surrounding the incident, he said.

Both Allen and the military’s top-ranking officer, General Martin Dempsey, spoke to the Pakistani army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, about the incident, he said.

“Obviously they did express their condolences and regrets but I think everyone realizes the facts need to be collected, analyzed and that the investigation needs to unfold,” he said.

The Pentagon spokesman also said he could not confirm reports that Pakistan had banned US government aircraft or ordered the CIA out of the Shamsi air base, which has reportedly been used for US drone strikes against militants.

“I’m not aware of any US military personnel at that base,” Little said.

After the air strikes, Pakistan’s cabinet ministers and military chiefs ordered the United States to leave the Shamsi air base within 15 days.

The remote desert outpost in southwest Pakistan is reportedly used as a hub for covert CIA drone strikes, which Islamabad previously told the United States to leave in June.

The role of the air base remains unclear as the CIA also uses air fields in neighbouring Afghanistan to stage missile attacks with unmanned robotic planes against suspected al Qaeda and Taliban militants.