Alleged blasphemy: Mob burns 100 Christian homes in Lahore

[Cherokee]

It is a minor issue unless it is of Gujrat scale.

your scales are as messed up as your head .

 

[Areesh]

your scales are as messed up as your head .

Burning of a few houses and killing of hundreds is never equal. It you who is messed up.

 

[Cherokee]

Burning of a few houses and killing of hundreds is never equal. It you who is messed up.

100 to 200 houses are a few houses for you . Like i said your scales are head are equally messed up .

 

[Areesh]

100 to 200 houses are a few houses for you . Like i said your scales are head are equally messed up .

Houses can be rebuilt. Dead ones cannot be brought back.

Guess who is messed up.

 

[dollarman]

Another peacefule day for the religion of peace. BD atheist bloggers getting knifed, Hindu/Buddhists getting killed in BD, and now Pak burns Christian houses, all in one week for the religion of "peace", quite an accomplishment. I dont think we can take so much peacefulness from you people...

P.S. You south asian Muslims seriously need to try another religion to get spiritual satisfaction, Islam hasnt really worked out for you guys. You are always angry and out to hurt people or destroy things There has to be a limit to this peacefullness...

 

[Leader]

 

[Huda]

@Aeronaut @muse @Developereo @Armstrong (pacifist) @Irfan Baloch @Dillinger (observer)

What do you guys say about my solution. Counterpoints please.

Situation in turkey was totally diiferent....And there were 5 mullahs how hold islam in turkey and maybe they migerated from turkey after revoluion was startded there...one of them was killed in Afghanistan by Afghan Taliban

Am i right

 

[Hyperion]

Nope yara. It was a bit more worse than Pakistan.

Situation in turkey was totally diiferent....And there were 5 mullahs how hold islam in turkey and maybe they migerated from turkey after revoluion was startded there...one of them was killed in Afghanistan by Afghan Taliban

Am i right

 

[Huda]

Nope yara. It was a bit more worse than Pakistan.

Wohi mayne kaha tha

 

[Banana]

You don't seem to be the brightest bulb among the propagandists.

He is Right. Mohammad himself killed and Beheaded many Non-Muslims.

 

[Dillinger]

@Aeronaut @muse @Developereo @Armstrong (pacifist) @Irfan Baloch @Dillinger (observer)

What do you guys say about my solution. Counterpoints please.

@Hyperion @Secur @Armstrong @Aeronaut @muse @somebozo @ZYXW
As an outside observer- I would point the following out.


We are all aware of the solution that Hyperion has mooted and suggested. It does not need any quoting or paraphrasing from me. Keeping the features of the said solution in mind- let us look upon the following.


An ideology is far more evasive and slippery than mobs or the taliban, capable of miring itself in propaganda, obfuscation and "religious impregnability". With that in mind, Secur, Hyperion and Muse have already posted in great detail regarding how such ideologies can be identified, stratified and isolated- in order to deal with them. The physical element of extremism requires competent LEAs and a fearless and efficient judiciary functioning under the aegis of a government which is able to build consensus in targeting such groups. But the infiltration of ideologies itself can also be seen as a conventional form of insurgency- in which case why not approach it in the manner prescribed by David Galula- Galula proposed four laws for counterinsurgency- Let us look at the spread of the ideology and its physical manifestation under the premise that it is indeed a regular insurgency:-


THE 4 LAWS


1) The aim of the war is to gain the support of the population rather than control of territory.

Which in this particular scenario (and in reference to the mooted suggestion) means that the populace of Pakistan needs to be co-opted through massive counter-indoctrination and the salvaging of the national narrative.


2) Most of the population will be neutral in the conflict; support of the masses can be obtained with the help of an active friendly minority.

Those ideologies which eschew extremism must be brought to the forefront even if they do not enjoy majority adherence. Aggressive media campaigning is required to isolate the ideology in question- to proscribe it with a name- label it so that it is well defined and then build a counter to it. An ideological counter that is holistic and able to attract adherents. Without an ideological counter it will be difficult to thin the ranks of the opposition and to mobilize "the silent majority".


3)Support of the population may be lost. The population must be efficiently protected to allow it to cooperate without fear of retribution by the opposite party.

This is where the role of the LEAs and the army comes in. The armed forces must be able to physically isolate those extremists who take up arms, the LEAs must be able to counter civil disturbances caused by extremist mobs. The judiciary needs to pass and enforce strong hate speech laws which are religion and sect neutral in order to bring down the ideologues and orators who serve the ideology. The physical suppression of the armed extremists does not require the usage of extra-judicial measures to the extent that Hyperion suggests. Article 256 of the constitution, which bars the raising of private militias should be aggressively enforced, the said article needs to be properly interpreted in this case and extended unto all the regions of Pakistan including the tribal regions. Now let us call the opposition by its name- Wahhabism- its preaching and its content can be interpreted to violate Article 5 of the constitution, which unequivocally demands loyalty and obedience to Pakistan’s state and constitution. The problem with applying Article 5 properly lies in the fact that Pakistan's government and legislative setup is not absent religion itself- as long as the constitution cannot be distanced from religion all such ideologies will simply continue to function under the pretext of advocating Islam. If the constitution is to be treated as an extension of Islamic law and teachings then it is difficult to delineate loyalty to the nation (constitution) from loyalty to religion. As long as such a loophole exists it will be difficult to reclaim the loyalty of the citizens.
Without effective implementation of the above the populace will grow belligerent towards the very authorities that are meant to protect them- rendering operations in populated areas extremely difficult. If the populace on the ground does not support you then you will bleed all the more as you try to dominate the ground.


4) Order enforcement should be done progressively by removing or driving away armed opponents, then gaining support of the population, and eventually strengthening positions by building infrastructure and setting long-term relationships with the population. This must be done area by area, using a pacified territory as a basis of operation to conquer a neighbouring area.

This is where dominance on the ground takes precedence. The armed services of the nation must deny violent operators any physical space- to act or propagate within. Now let us be clear, Hyperion is right in stating that the perpetrators enforcing the tenets of this ideology though violent means on the ground need to be dealt with- rendered lifeless and/or debilitated with extreme prejudice. Soldiers plowing down terrorists and the state apparatus crushing a militant ideology do indeed constitute the condiciones sine quibus non of any approach meant to counter extremists but heavy stress needs to be given to preserving whats left of the disfigured and broken administrative apparatus of Pakistan. But doing so by extra-judicially wiping out adherents of the ideology will indeed lead to massive collateral damage. Instead an approach where the ideology is cornered- projected to be intellectually defeated. Mind you the key word is "projected"- an all pervasive perception has to be created among the majority populace that Wahhabism is indeed outdated and outmoded. The ideology in question has already manifested itself through violence- this may tempt people to favor an immediate and violent retaliation. Meeting violence with violence is not wrong, in fact it is the sine qua non of all warfare, but engaging the enemy on its terms is wrong- it is a folly that must be avoided. Momentum must be seized from the opponent and war must be fought on the nation's terms and in a manner of its own choosing. Build a counter offensive and unleash it at the opportune moment rather than instinctively striking out. Such efforts must be married to corresponding efforts of infrastructure development and stabilizing of areas from where the ideology and its adherents are rooted out- reforming the social structure which they had previously marred. A nation wide clampdown is unmanageable and will most definitely lead to further infiltration by foreign extremist elements in support of their "coreligionists". A targeted and compartmentalized approach which begins with covert subversion leading up to and into overt actions on the other hand could very well provide success and bases from where to operate to further the state's gains.



Consider this situation to correspond to the misfortune of a sinking ship, water has flooded in and the ship is listing dangerously to port- A large ship with four gaping leaks. Plugging only one will not fix the problem albeit it might delay the inevitable fate of the passengers and the crew. All four leakages need to be plugged- simultaneously. Although one may accord greater priority to one of the above mentioned aspects (in relative terms), completely disregarding or procrastinating upon any of the above measures will be perilous and will cause further complications. Stem all the leaks though and the ship will stop listing and gain its bearing again- fail to do so and it will capsize!

I apologize in advance for any grammatical or linguistic errors.

 

[Dillinger]

Dude what do you do for a living
?

LOL why do you ask?

 

[Hyperion]

He is a Naswaree, we only let brilliant people become our citizens. Got game? Apply for citizenship @ Naswaristan...
@Armstrong... do I have to do your job as well? You need to finish your marketing quota!

Dude what do you do for a living
?

 

[Dillinger]

@russellviper89 Dude I'm a 21 year old student. A proud Indian and as Hyperion pointed out a Naswaree, you might find it surprising that one can be both.

 

[arp2041]

He is a Naswaree, we only let brilliant people become our citizens. Got game? Apply for citizenship @ Naswaristan...
@Armstrong... do I have to do your job as well? You need to finish your marketing quota!

Wow you do a Hell of a Marketing Job!!!

I'll definitely keep you in the Marketing Job when the next administration (read My administration) comes in the State of Naswaristan.

Thank You.