Alamgir Class Frigate

[Myth_buster_1]

There goes Growler's dream in trash.

I said it at least ten times but each time I was humiliated and called a TROLL. Now I hope he finally understands this.

Bye Bye.

Indeed you are a troll.

Some people lack the comprehension here that MK-13 launching system was only removed for USN cost saving plan and another reason was allies demand of SM-1 missiles.
For the 100th time I am repeating this again for a special case jagjitnaat. Under a intensive refurbishment all removed systems will be reinstalled at PN request.

 

[Creder]

i was hoping to get some insights on the projects by thomas and other military members..instead this thread has been jacked by ignorant trolls who are under the impression that they know better.. you guys think your smarter than the people who have worked in navy all there life ? do you guys have more brains than them or do you guys have some hidden inside information on the deal that the rest of us dont..if you do please share it with us..if not then shut up and dont derail this thread

the frigates themselves are being used by professional navies of the world, look at our economy and look at what we are getting

enough of this non-sense

 

[TOPGUN]

PN navy is trying its outmost best to make it self of something whatever we can get we are trying i hate the fact that even our own Pakistani members are criticizing our own navy shame on you that are doing soo if you think they can do better then provide the funds until then shut it up.

 

[Thomas]

i was hoping to get some insights on the projects by thomas and other military members..instead this thread has been jacked by ignorant trolls who are under the impression that they know better.. you guys think your smarter than the people who have worked in navy all there life ? do you guys have more brains than them or do you guys have some hidden inside information on the deal that the rest of us dont..if you do please share it with us..if not then shut up and dont derail this thread

the frigates themselves are being used by professional navies of the world, look at our economy and look at what we are getting

enough of this non-sense

I am no naval expert Creder. My forte is in the area unconventional warfare. I do try and keep up on current and future weapons systems as much as possible though. My two cents would be to trust that the Pakistani naval planners. will not leave the ships virtually defenseless. And I highly doubt the Phalanx will be the their only defense after the ships are deployed. And if they are, the problem is not with the ships. But with the decision makers in the navy.

 

[Creder]

From where i see it PN wants to not only induct ships but also gain know how regarding their indigenous production..F22P gave them some experience in ship building and installing new systems on the OHP class could prove to be a valuable asset in acquiring know how about on-board systems.

Also the main reason behind this purchase, i think was the fact that these ships can be upgraded at our own pace..Since our economy doesnt permit a huge upgrade we can do it in steps, that wouldnt put too much pressure on the navy budget and they will be able to make the best of the OHPs

 

[SeaToby]

The US removed the Mk 13 launchers to provide a large inventory of SM-1MR missiles for the other nations which have bought the weapon system. The US had planned to upgrade the FFG-07s with SeaRam upgrade to the CIWS and add harpoon racks in front of the bridge.

Unfortunately the upgrade was cancelled to save on the budget. The frigates were seen as too old to fund the upgrade. However, I believe Pakistan should do the upgrade.

While SeaRam isn't an area defense SAM, its a modern self defense missile system great for anti-air and anti-missile. Harpoon or another SSM, possibly Chinese, would provide the FFG-07s with a good surface to surface missile.

 

[Penguin]

The US removed the Mk 13 launchers to provide a large inventory of SM-1MR missiles for the other nations which have bought the weapon system. The US had planned to upgrade the FFG-07s with SeaRam upgrade to the CIWS and add harpoon racks in front of the bridge.

Unfortunately the upgrade was cancelled to save on the budget. The frigates were seen as too old to fund the upgrade. However, I believe Pakistan should do the upgrade.

While SeaRam isn't an area defense SAM, its a modern self defense missile system great for anti-air and anti-missile. Harpoon or another SSM, possibly Chinese, would provide the FFG-07s with a good surface to surface missile.

I'ld like to see references to some authoritative (i.e. official) sources for that statement

 

[SeaToby]

Google Mk 29 Searam. Click on the Wiki link. Read this:

The U.S. Navy plans to purchase a total of about 1,600 RAMs and 115 launchers to equip 74 ships. The missile is currently active aboard Nimitz class aircraft carriers, Wasp class amphibious assault ships, Tarawa class amphibious assault ships, San Antonio class amphibious transport dock ships, Whidbey Island class dock landing ships, and Harpers Ferry class dock landing ships. There are plans in place to equip Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates with Mk 29 RAM launchers.[1]

More from Wiki about the Mk 15 1B upgrades:

Due to the continuing evolution of both threats and computer technology, the Phalanx system has, like most military systems, been developed through a number of different configurations. The basic (original) style is the Block 0, equipped with first generation solid state electronics and with marginal capability against surface targets. The Block 1 (1988) upgrade offered various improvements in radar, ammunition, rate of fire, increasing engagement elevation to +70 degrees, and computing. These improvements were intended to increase the system's capability against emerging Soviet (?) supersonic anti-ship missiles. Block 1A introduced a new computer system to counter more maneuverable targets. The Block 1B PSuM (Phalanx Surface Mode, 1999) adds a forward looking infrared (FLIR) sensor to allow the weapon to be used against surface targets.[9] This addition was developed to provide ship defense against small vessel threats and other "floaters" in littoral waters and to improve the weapon's performance against slower low-flying aircraft. The FLIR's capability is also of use against low-observability missiles and can be linked with the RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) system to increase RAM engagement range and accuracy. The Block 1B also allows for an operator to visually identify and target threats.[9]
The U.S. is in the process of upgrading all their Phalanx systems to the Block 1B configuration. The Block 1B is also used by other navies such as Canada, Portugal, Japan, Egypt, Bahrain and the UK.[10]
In May 2009 the US Navy awarded a $260 million contract to Raytheon Missile Systems to perform upgrades and other work on the Phalanx. The work is to be completed by September 2012.[11]

Harpoons or other surface to surface missiles along with their missile racks/tubes can be located in front of the bridge.

I don't like to use Wiki as a source, but 99 percent of the time the information is correct... Notice I left the numbered links above from Wiki. Please read the pages yourself and click on the links.

Congress failed to fund the program as the ships were considered too old for the investment. Nor were the Austin class LPDs upgraded either as they are currently being replaced by newly built San Antonio class LPDs. But that is not the case with Pakistan, is it?

While they won't be FFGs much any more, they will still be effective ASW frigates capable of defending themselves and provide a good missile striking capability. Forget the Mk 13 missile launcher... Its a red herring! Technology has moved a long ways from 1970s era SM-1MR surface to air missiles... much less 1960s technology of Tartar surface to air missiles...

I don't believe the Arleigh Burke class destoyers and Ticenderoga class cruisers will be getting the Mk 29 Searams or Mk 49 RAMs, as they have the ESSMs instead... Maybe in the future, who knows?

 

[Comet]

Pakistan Navy looks more interested in anti submarine warfare. Earlier PN ordered sonobuoys (Undersea Sensor Systems, Inc AN/SSQ-36B/SSQ-53F/AN/SSQ-62E) and now 8 Frigates for ASW.

 

[SeaToby]

A You Tube video of the Mk 49 RAM:

Mk 49 has 21 missiles whereas Mk 29 has 11 missiles..

 

[Comet]

Can we get MQ-8B Fire Scout helicopter UAV with these frigates?

 

[ice_man]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the FFG-7's Pakistan is receiving from the U.S. starting this August. I have found an article dated April 26, 2010 that seems to clarify what upgrades are taking place. And Pakistan's intended purpose of them. Contrary to what most people believe including myself. They are intended as an anti-submarine Platform. They are refered to as "Alamgir Class". And Pakistan is looking to obtain 8 of them.

Perrys for Pakistan: USS McInerney & the Alamgir Class

26-Apr-2010 14:08 EDT
Perrys for Pakistan: USS McInerney & the Alamgir Class

On Feb 19/10, the US DSCA announced Pakistan’s official request to buy the Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigate USS McInerney [FFG 8], plus refurbishment and anti-submarine improvements. That deal is now a contract, and is reportedly the first step in an 8-ship purchase.

In 2009, USS McInerney trialed the naval MQ-8B Fire Scout helicopter UAV in counter-drug operations around the Caribbean, and became the first navy ship to use unmanned helicopters in a drug bust. It’s one member of a popular but declining ship class…

Pakistan’s Perrys: The Alamgir Class

Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates still serve with the US Navy, but American ships have had their bow-mounted Mk.13 launch systems for SM-1 Standard air defense and RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles removed. Those changes leave just torpedoes and a 76mm naval gun for offense, and the 20mm Phalanx CIWS as the ships’ main defensive weapon.

Further reports indicate that McInerney’s refurbishments are aimed at improving its anti-submarine capability only, making the term “guided missile frigate” something of a misnomer. Unless Pakistan undertakes additional approved work, its Alamgir Class will be anti-submarine frigates only, their weaponry outclassed by Pakistan’s new Chinese F-22P/ Zulfiquar Class multi-role frigates, and even its older British Type 21/ Tariq Class ships. On the other hand, the 8 planned ships will be filling an important coastal patrol and anti-submarine role, at a bargain price.

Perry class frigates also serve in the navies of Australia, Egypt, Poland, Spain, Taiwan, and Turkey. Most of those ships retain their original missile launching systems, and Australia’s ships have just finished an expensive set of deep upgrades.

Contracts and Key Events

Aug 31/10: The frigate USS McInerney is slated for inactivation, and re-commissioning.

April 20/10: Pakistan signs a contract to purchase and refurbish the USS McInnery. The purchase is free, but reported terms for the refurbishment vary from $64.77 – $78.0 million. The frigate is expected to be re-commissioned as PNS Alamgir on Aug 31/10, following refurbishments aimed at improving its anti-submarine capabilities.

Pakistan’s Defence Procurement Attache Captain Abdur Rehman reportedly inked the contract, and this is reportedly the first of a planned Pakistani fleet of 8 Perry Class frigates.

Feb 19/10: US DSCA announces [PDF] Pakistan’s official request for the initial ship, plus plus refurbishment, onboard spares, spare and repairs parts, support equipment, publications and technical data, and U.S. Government and contractor support.

The prime contractor is unknown at this time, but the estimated cost of the initial transfer plus refurbishment and support is $78 million. Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any U.S. Government and contractor representatives to Pakistan.

this is just crap!! we buy a 30 year old frigate that is useless & unarmed! i see major kick backs! and i still don't get it why do we like to lie down for the US! stop American procurement! we pay for old crappy equipment with money & blood & the end result is UNARMED JUNK!!!

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

this is just crap!! we buy a 30 year old frigate that is useless & unarmed! i see major kick backs! and i still don't get it why do we like to lie down for the US! stop American procurement! we pay for old crappy equipment with money & blood & the end result is UNARMED JUNK!!!

What Kick backs???...Pakistan is not paying for any of this "junk"...$78 million for these frigates will come foreign military sales funds.
On the top that the 6 boats of Tariq class(ex British Type 21 frigate) have already spent 30-35 yrs at sea and need to be replaced.

Any ship bought from China though new and perhaps on deferred payment will cost exchequer considerable fortune...so be a little more grateful.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

this is just crap!! we buy a 30 year old frigate that is useless & unarmed! i see major kick backs! and i still don't get it why do we like to lie down for the US! stop American procurement! we pay for old crappy equipment with money & blood & the end result is UNARMED JUNK!!!

Useless comment.

I advice you to do some research before commenting on subject that you have no idea about.READ THIS

FFG/ Alamgir Class Frigate have been constantly upgraded through out USN service. And once upgraded it will be superior to PN F-22P and par with IN Frigates such as Talwar class.
"AGE" is noting to judge about any equipment's capabilities. PAF F-16s and IAF Mirage-2k are as old as FFGs.
And btw these frigates are free of cost. Unless PN decides to add additional systems/armaments such as SM-2, Harpoon, RUM-139, Smart-S, LAMPS etc.

 

[ice_man]

Useless comment.

I advice you to do some research before commenting on subject that you have no idea about.READ THIS

FFG/ Alamgir Class Frigate have been constantly upgraded through out USN service. And once upgraded it will be superior to PN F-22P and par with IN Frigates such as Talwar class.
"AGE" is noting to judge about any equipment's capabilities. PAF F-16s and IAF Mirage-2k are as old as FFGs.
And btw these frigates are free of cost. Unless PN decides to add additional systems/armaments such as SM-2, Harpoon, RUM-139, Smart-S, LAMPS etc.

ok i read your link & everything had IMO in it! so what is your point?? your opinon is supposed to be taken as a fact???