Air War Is Coming:---

[ZAC1]

Anybody remember sohail aman was asked about su 30 mki...what was his reaction

 

[Jinn Baba]

The second air attack came from the sea and it was intercepted at long ranges, and they bugged out.

When? Can you share any details?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Fuel tanks.

It's far likelier for the Bison to have taken off with 2 fuel tanks and 2 Archers than 4 Archers.

Addendum: Never mind. The pic posted with the R-77, R-73 and centerline is actually just as likely.

You are of course aware that the MiG 21 bis, and subsequently, the MiG 21 Bison carries its fuel tank amidships, and not on the wingtips. Presumably that is why you have kept out of this thread that shows how expert and knowledgeable are fanboys.

You really need something to take your mind off Joe. Not looking very bright these days.

You would feel overwhelmed too if you found yourself facing an audience that thought that external fuel tanks and weapons occupied the same points. Maybe I should switch to a forum specialising in knitting wool?

But your wardi is off

Join the FC

I stopped being a participant nineteen years ago.

 

[Avicenna]

Not necesssarily.

In all honesty we don't know the actual loadout of the IAF aircraft.

But it could be with 2 Archers only.

2 Archers and 2 wing mounted tanks as illustrated (although this particular pic looks more like a training round).

2 R-77 and 2 R-73 with a centerline.

Or some variation of the above.

We don't know.

But its most likely NOT to have carried 4 AAMs on all wing stations.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have addressed you with respect, kindly do not use words that don't fit the discussion we're having. In any case, check the video from 1:20 onward. What do you think it is, that they are putting in the truck? The entire formation from IAF was already in air. It was a LFE. As IAF reps themselves have clarified in their presser. The said Mig 21 Bison was not operating on its own, in the theater. It was backed by Su-30s flying top cover, Mirage 2000s in North and 29s flying sweep. In such a CAP, you need time on station - not just to be weaponized to hilt. And I do not need to tell you that Mig-21 otherwise has pretty short legs.

First, there is nothing that does not fit the discussion we are having; it is a light-weight one devoid of any knowledge of aeroplane architecture or of flight dynamics, and cannot be taken seriously, only as one to amuse and titillate oneself.

Second, it has been clarified elsewhere who was flying what mission. Not all planes are in the air at once; if they had been, no Pakistani plane could have approached, dropped ordnance and managed to get back. Work this out on your own.

 

[kursed]

Second, it has been clarified elsewhere who was flying what mission. Not all planes are in the air at once; if they had been, no Pakistani plane could have approached, dropped ordnance and managed to get back. Work this out on your own.

Please remember, we are not talking about the first strike force here. In any case, have seen the wreckage, gone through most of what happened up there. Have fun proving IAF dropped even a fly. =) Cheers and have a good night.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please remember, we are not talking about the first strike force here. In any case, have seen the wreckage, gone through most of what happened up there. Have fun proving IAF dropped even a fly. =) Cheers and have a good night.

No, we are not talking about the first strike force here. What difference did that make?

As far as the rest of it is concerned, we are dealing with the accidental mentions of the DG ISPR, and of findings on the PAF side, and therefore, no sensible person will say that an F 16 was definitely shot down. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, and that is all.

 

[Hellfire]

My Dear Sir.

Quoting you.

You are forgetting that the plane was carrying 2 fuel tanks as well. They have been salvaged from the wreck as well.

Then

I have addressed you with respect, kindly do not use words that don't fit the discussion we're having. In any case, check the video from 1:20 onward. What do you think it is, that they are putting in the truck? The entire formation from IAF was already in air. It was a LFE. As IAF reps themselves have clarified in their presser. The said Mig 21 Bison was not operating on its own, in the theater. It was backed by Su-30s flying top cover, Mirage 2000s in North and 29s flying sweep. In such a CAP, you need time on station - not just to be weaponized to hilt. And I do not need to tell you that Mig-21 otherwise has pretty short legs.

It is with this post, that I asked you to cite, because I really wanted you to realize that the information you have started off your postings on, were not matched with what was the evidence you have yourself posted i.e. the 01 x External Fuel Tank being loaded on a truck as opposed to claims of 02 you have made by your post and the very fact that you claimed that the entire formation from IAF was already airborne, whereas you can double back to my response and the same seems to be corroborated by the pressor of the word 'scrambled' and not 'vectored in to intercept'

Let me post my reply, for your clarification:

Can you cite the bold? I am not going with the Indian media inferences and attributed stories being bandied upon.
Because, as far as I am aware, your indication that the downed Mig-21 Bison was on a CAP, is incorrect. It was on ORP-1. The only CAP was being flown by Su-30 MKI further South of the concerned AFB.

For the remainder as under:

In any case, a standard ADA loadout, with a center pylon seems to be 2 adders and 2 archers. Will you agree to this load out then? Or will switch the story to a different iteration? =)

I shall post relevant extracts from my post:

As above. One does not need EFT on multiple pylons for intercept.

For 02 x Adders and 02 X Archers. Answer is - depends on the aim. Again I draw you reference to my post:

For the simple reasons of ROE. India did not declare a war on Pakistan. Shooting down a PAF fighter in Pakistani airspace would have done just that - painted India as an aggressor.
That is the rationale. Same as why PAF struck targets across LC and not IB, which GoP, for all practical reasons could have justified on the logic it put forth - of responding to Indian aggression.

A complement of 04 x WVRAAMs on a Mig-21, with Su-30 MKI already with BVRAAM providing top cover, makes sense with the ROE that was prevalent.

 

[kursed]

It is with this post, that I asked you to cite, because I really wanted you to realize that the information you have started off your postings on, were not matched with what was the evidence you have yourself posted i.e. the 01 x External Fuel Tank being loaded on a truck as opposed to claims of 02 you have made by your post and the very fact that you claimed that the entire formation from IAF was already airborne, whereas you can double back to my response and the same seems to be corroborated by the pressor of the word 'scrambled' and not 'vectored in to intercept'

Since not at liberty to post pictures, I'll agree that it did only have the center fuel tank. In any case, the story from IAF is that one Archer was launched. While they have recovered two archers from wreckage. So what happened to the third one? Went missing? That does not make sense. A standard 2x2 ADA payload of archers and adders does make sense. And in that case, again, 2 WVRAAMs are still there.

Also, ROEs do not keep any air force from locking enemy aircraft and trying to deter them.

 

[Hellfire]

Since not at liberty to post pictures, I'll agree that it did only have the center fuel tank. In any case, the story from IAF is that one Archer was launched. While they have recovered two archers from wreckage. So what happened to the third one? Went missing? That does not make sense. A standard 2x2 ADA payload of archers and adders does make sense. And in that case, again, 2 WVRAAMs are still there.

Also, ROEs do not keep any air force from locking enemy aircraft and trying to deter them.

Who knows, maybe 02 x R-73s were indeed launched, the 'double tap'? Without further data, mere conjectures abound, and that shall keep us going round in circles.

I understand the precarious position of not being able to share the pictures. For me, it is slightly more complex, hence, some of the hardcore fanboys here, are not engaged beyond a certain point.

Chill, we can always come back to this point once things settle down & data is more forthcoming and have a discussion at a later date.

 

[Champion_Usmani]

Some valid Points... Must read

 

[Trango Towers]

Anybody remember sohail aman was asked about su 30 mki...what was his reaction

What i want is a pissed of pakistani wife flying for PAF go up against indians she is dangerous at home but hell give her a plane missiles guns and free will to shoot.
I for one will call in sick looool

 

[kursed]

Who knows, maybe 02 x R-73s were indeed launched, the 'double tap'? Without further data, mere conjectures abound, and that shall keep us going round in circles.

I understand the precarious position of not being able to share the pictures. For me, it is slightly more complex, hence, some of the hardcore fanboys here, are not engaged beyond a certain point.

Chill, we can always come back to this point once things settle down & data is more forthcoming and have a discussion at a later date.

As per your own media, IAF only launched one archer. Keep on making up different scenarios, see what fits. =)

 

[Hellfire]

As per your own media, IAF only launched one archer. Keep on making up different scenarios, see what fits. =)

Yeah, I saw that you tried that. Claim 2 EFTs and get 1 and insinuate loads of stuff.

Learn to accept a graceful out, when given. Recollect about being respectful? Your post above is a bait/flame post. That, sir, is not respectful.

I am not bandying about any claim to holding a photograph, because I do not have any. You are.

Since not at liberty to post pictures, I'll agree that it did only have the center fuel tank. In any case, the story from IAF is that one Archer was launched. While they have recovered two archers from wreckage. So what happened to the third one? Went missing? That does not make sense. A standard 2x2 ADA payload of archers and adders does make sense. And in that case, again, 2 WVRAAMs are still there.

The only sense you are making is what you make of what sense means to you.

Read about IAF tactics written by Tyler Rogoway. It shall be an interesting read.

Also, ROEs do not keep any air force from locking enemy aircraft and trying to deter them.

ROEs are meant for situation specific.

And BVRAAMs have to overcome active Jamming, needs reduced range for a burn through. Don't waste my time claiming access to photograph and posting comments on ROE which I know very well on my side, as if you drafted them.

@Joe Shearer

 

[Sine Nomine]

Bharat Sarkar bhi man gaya hai, bak bak ka muqabla mein inlog aage hain.

Bharat sarkar is waqat madari bani hoi hai.

You do realise that decapitation is a two-way street, and that Pakistani generals are integral to the Pakistani state in a way that Indian generals are not. If all your corps commanders are killed, your entire state will collapse like a house of cards; if all our corps commanders are killed, we wouldn't pause even a moment.

You can kill all of them,it would solve your problems.