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Air Marshal (Rtd) Masood Akhtar Discusses Block 3 and Project AZM - 5 Dec 2019

I like the line Tech flow can not be stopped, its the universal truth no matter how much west wants to restrict cutting edge tech. it will be spread out soon or later.
Regarding PL-15 as counter to Meteor its not about just missile its the full package.
Rafale paired with Meteor is way more advanced solution than a PL-15 paired with JF17 BLK3.
Given the info all of us as public know, yes, Rafale is clearly a winner. But PAF and China are good at secrets. West brags about their systems so as to market them.
 
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Rafale paired with Meteor is way more advanced solution than a PL-15 paired with JF17 BLK3.
Just like the MKI (Missile truck) paired with BARS radar (aka mini-AWACS) with was a way more advanced solution until 27 Feb. As Shahid Latif sb already mentioned, you can live happily with the Mirage of Raphales till the next 27 Feb happens.
 
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Just like the mini AWACS was a way more advanced solution to anything PAF got. People like you are responsible for the Abhi-none-dones.

Well like the pakistani poster above said Rafale paired with Meteor is indeed better solution regarding the min-awacs thingy ... Mini Awacs doesnt mean it will increase the range and probability of kill of a R77 missile. Su-30 MKI indeed has bigger range radar and can play mini-awacs roles which is pretty common in western forces but was a new thing in IAF in early 2000s.
Nowadays this is pretty common feature among even light fighters like Gripen.
IAF was well aware of Aim120C5 edge over Russian solution Su30MKI had but still in practical combat the edge was pretty minor. F-16s fired at DMAX-1 range that firing solution is not even used in training runs may be weapon firing tests. Even Meteor fired at DMAX-1 will be a waste shot with almost 0% probability kill on any agile fighter size target may be Tankers, Transports can be targeted.
I think IAF is pretty satisfied with R-77 with lesser range on Su30MKIs thats why 300 more R-77s were ordered again.
 
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...combat the edge was pretty minor.
'Pretty Minor' explained

- Mig 21 lost
- Su 30 lost
- Mi 17 lost
- Lost the air superiority over Kashmir skies
- IA Army HQs a trigger away

Keeping in view the crash rates and friendly fires rampant in India forces, personnel losses are not worth mentioning here. If this was still 'pretty minor' for you guys, i am wondering how the IAF defines 'pretty major' incidents! We are quite happy with your 'pretty minor' though as well.
 
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'Pretty Minor' explained
- Mig 21 lost
- Su 30 lost
- Mi-17 lost
- Lost total air superiority
- Army HQ in occupied Kashmir locked

Keeping in view the crash rates and friendly fires in India forces, personnel losses are not worth mentioning here.
- Mig 21 lost --- Mig 21 lost in dogfight in Pakistani territory that means it chased down F-16s into Pakistani territory and F-16 were not able to lock it on BVR .
- Su 30 lost --- haha even Raytheon will not even think of scoring a Su30MKI with 2D TVC and 2 Engines at DMAX-1 range.
- Mi-17 lost --- shows unprofessionalism of a single ADU doesnt reflect anything on a million strong force.
- Lost total air superiority --- IAF just last night bombed a target less than 100 kms north west of Islamabad. 12 IAF fighters came well inside Pakistani territory the truth is depending on a particular sector even Iran can have Air Superiority over USAF... neither IAF or PAF has total air superiority over each other for now. May be Stealth can change that in future.
- Army HQ in occupied Kashmir locked --- That was an Indian army formation compounds few KMs away from LOC a mortar can target that and in case it was targeted India could wipe the floor clean with the numerical edge India has.
 
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Well like the pakistani poster above said Rafale paired with Meteor is indeed better solution regarding the min-awacs thingy ... Mini Awacs doesnt mean it will increase the range and probability of kill of a R77 missile. Su-30 MKI indeed has bigger range radar and can play mini-awacs roles which is pretty common in western forces but was a new thing in IAF in early 2000s.
Nowadays this is pretty common feature among even light fighters like Gripen.
IAF was well aware of Aim120C5 edge over Russian solution Su30MKI had but still in practical combat the edge was pretty minor. F-16s fired at DMAX-1 range that firing solution is not even used in training runs may be weapon firing tests. Even Meteor fired at DMAX-1 will be a waste shot with almost 0% probability kill on any agile fighter size target may be Tankers, Transports can be targeted.
I think IAF is pretty satisfied with R-77 with lesser range on Su30MKIs thats why 300 more R-77s were ordered again.
You really made me laugh in pity, how incompetent IAF to even get hit when chances of hit are nill to none :lol::lol::lol:
 
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It is quite possible that the AIM-120 shots at the Su-30s at max ranges were to put them on the defensive air maneuvers, giving time for the Mirage and JF-17 strike aircraft to exit the area safely. This is a pretty valid strategy and still results in the mission kill. Letting lose a couple of missile is a small price to pay for the successful exfil of your own aircraft and pilots.
 
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Yes, if Pakistan acquire capability to do so. Once capability is achieved, tactic and doctrine will evolve automatically.

Hi,

F35 has a bit more combat radius than the JF17---.

You don't need to go over the land for deep strike missions---. You can use the indian ocean---and due to our geographical location we can use long range conventional aircraft to strike at the enemy.
 
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After reading all the comments in this thread I came to a conclusion that many of you do not know the international politics and interest of foreign countries. Regardless what USA government says, their interests is to aligned with India to contain China and they will offer India high tech aircraft including F-35.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, USA doesn’t want Pakistan to be 100% in China’s pocket, and to prevent that they may offer Some defense equipment to Pakistan including used/surplus F-16 and upgrade package.
As I’ve mentioned before there is no talk of new F 16 aircraft at this time but even if USA does agree on New F-16, it might be in small batch of 8 to 12.
 
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- Mig 21 lost --- Mig 21 lost in dogfight in Pakistani territory that means it chased down F-16s into Pakistani territory and F-16 were not able to lock it on BVR .
- Su 30 lost --- haha even Raytheon will not even think of scoring a Su30MKI with 2D TVC and 2 Engines at DMAX-1 range.
- Mi-17 lost --- shows unprofessionalism of a single ADU doesnt reflect anything on a million strong force.
- Lost total air superiority --- IAF just last night bombed a target less than 100 kms north west of Islamabad. 12 IAF fighters came well inside Pakistani territory the truth is depending on a particular sector even Iran can have Air Superiority over USAF... neither IAF or PAF has total air superiority over each other for now. May be Stealth can change that in future.
- Army HQ in occupied Kashmir locked --- That was an Indian army formation compounds few KMs away from LOC a mortar can target that and in case it was targeted India could wipe the floor clean with the numerical edge India has.

Just to be crystal clear, Your MIG-21 was lured into an ambush inside Pakistan. You think Pakistanis are that inept that they will allow a Mig-21 to chase F-16 inside Pakistani airspace ? Pakistan has officially claimed it was AIM-120 C5 which brought down MIG21. Your Wing Commander was repeatedly Warned by your ADC Squadron Leader Minty Aggerwal not to cross Border. He ignored those warnings.

Not only your pilot was unprofessional and insolent but also he couldn't read the situation that he is being led into a mouse trap


Care to remind me How Pakistan knew Northern Army Commander Lt Gen. Ranbir Singh and 16 Corps Commander Lt Gen. Paramjit Singh was there in Brigade Headquarter? And Genius Brigade headquarter is always at a good distance away from LOC so that it doesnt fall in artillery and mortar ranges.

Go check out your own THE PRINT news of your generals narrowly avoiding Pakistan airstrikes.
 
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Lost total air superiority --- IAF just last night bombed a target less than 100 kms north west of Islamabad. 12 IAF fighters came well inside Pakistani territory the truth is depending on a particular sector


WTF:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Buddy this is not hindutvaBakht.com

You cant just post shit here
 
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Given the info all of us as public know, yes, Rafale is clearly a winner. But PAF and China are good at secrets. West brags about their systems so as to market them.

Rafael Electronic Warfare and Weapon Package are way ahead and more sophisticated than Block-3. That's a fact that we have to admit.

Self protection jammer and Sensor fusion

HMDS with 90 degree offboresight WVRAAM

RAFALE Meteor is ramjet missile. A technology which china has yet to master. PL-15 in comparison is dual pulse motor missile and hence is inferior to Meteor missile.

There is a reason we havent seen ramjet based BVR missile in chinese arsenal. They had trouble miniaturizing the ramjet propulsion for BVR Missiles.


"
By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/5 20:48:39


China has successfully tested its solid-fuel variable flow ramjet engine in two recent airspace experiments, a breakthrough in the engine research fields which could enhance real combat ability of China's stealth aircraft including the J20 jet fighters, according to military experts.

A research team from No. 4 research institute affiliated with the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation revealed on May 31 that the team has successfully conducted two flight tests with the solid-fuel variable flow ramjet engine. The team said the new ramjet engine is ready for further engineering application, paving the way for China's next generations of hypersonic missiles, the Science and Technology Daily reported on Thursday.

According to the report, the solid-fuel ramjet engine is a member of the ramjet engine family, which has the advantage of low cost, high power, and high controllability with compact size. And it is hardly accessible in the world as it demands sophisticated and highly difficult research on technology.

The new engine, can remarkably increase the firing range and mobility for air-to-air missiles and antiship missiles equipped with China's stealth aircraft including the J20 jet fighters, Song Zhongping, a military expert who used to serve in the PLA Rocket Force, told the Global Times.

The engine will enable the J20 fighters to fire from greater range and the missiles to fly faster at a hypersonic speed, which will increase their combat ability, Song said.

The research institute has established a special research team to work on the project since 2000, and in recent years, the research institute has conducted eight flight tests with the new ramjet engines.
It is a milestone in the field of engine research, which has been a bottleneck for China for quite a while, Li Jie, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times on Monday.

Once the engine achieves miniaturization, it will very likely enable China's air-to-air missiles to strike targets up to 300 kilometers at a speed faster than Mach 5, Song estimated, adding that the engine can be applied to China's latest missiles including PL12 missiles.

A lot of research needs to be done in the future to achieve that. For example, China should also conduct research on building up a super range detection network to support such a long-range strike, and the precision guiding system should be capable of processing information at super high speeds, Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of the Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times.

At present, such an engine will be mainly used on missiles, as for the manned aircraft, there is still a long way to go, since the thrust of such engines are still not enough for that, Song said.

Cruise missiles and experimental aircraft including drones can also adopt such technology to realize high-speed travel within the atmosphere, Wang added
."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1050098.shtml
 
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- Mig 21 lost --- Mig 21 lost in dogfight in Pakistani territory that means it chased down F-16s into Pakistani territory and F-16 were not able to lock it on BVR .

What kind of logic is that? Since Mig-21 was shot down it had to shoot down an F-16? You guys are too emotionally attached with F-16 story. Their was no dogfight just one sided match! F-16 were 50-60 miles well inside PAK air space and used long range AMRAAM to shoot down Mig-21.
- Su 30 lost --- haha even Raytheon will not even think of scoring a Su30MKI with 2D TVC and 2 Engines at DMAX-1 range.
Haha thats why India had to run like a b1tch to France and speed up the proccess for purchasing Rafails.
And you do know Same AIM-120C5 are used in F-22s? Are You suggesting even USAF fighters can not shoot down MKI?
Lol your mighty SU-30 MKI were the first one to escape the combat scene like a b1tch and on the process one got shot in the @ss. Their is only 10-15 miles range difference between amraam and R-77 and Su-30 should have fired something at F-16, so if Mig-21 can get closer to LOC why didnt the Su-30 try to engage F-16?
- Mi-17 lost --- shows unprofessionalism of a single ADU doesnt reflect anything on a million strong force.
Yah, its always that one guy right? LOL
Lost total air superiority --- IAF just last night bombed a target less than 100 kms north west of Islamabad. 12 IAF fighters came well inside Pakistani territory the truth is depending on a particular sector even Iran can have Air Superiority over USAF... neither IAF or PAF has total air superiority over each other for now. May be Stealth can change that in future.
This Indiotic stories keeps getting more stupid and stupid.

IAF M2K were using Spice-2000 kit which has 100 Km range with drop-and-forget capability and it defeats the purpose if you actually fly to the target! Indian lies can be caught this easily with logical reasoning!

- Army HQ in occupied Kashmir locked --- That was an Indian army formation compounds few KMs away from LOC a mortar can target that and in case it was targeted India could wipe the floor clean with the numerical edge India has.
Indiot, the footage you are referring to is that of a ammunition depot which was among several targets. And the point was to WARN and Pakistan was aware that this could lead to full scale war and would end in Nuclear!
 
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Rafael Electronic Warfare and Weapon Package are way ahead and more sophisticated than Block-3. That's a fact that we have to admit.

Self protection jammer and Sensor fusion

HMDS with 90 degree offboresight WVRAAM

RAFALE Meteor is ramjet missile. A technology which china has yet to master. PL-15 in comparison is dual pulse motor missile and hence is inferior to Meteor missile.

There is a reason we havent seen ramjet based BVR missile in chinese arsenal. They had trouble miniaturizing the ramjet propulsion for BVR Missiles.


"
By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/5 20:48:39


China has successfully tested its solid-fuel variable flow ramjet engine in two recent airspace experiments, a breakthrough in the engine research fields which could enhance real combat ability of China's stealth aircraft including the J20 jet fighters, according to military experts.

A research team from No. 4 research institute affiliated with the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation revealed on May 31 that the team has successfully conducted two flight tests with the solid-fuel variable flow ramjet engine. The team said the new ramjet engine is ready for further engineering application, paving the way for China's next generations of hypersonic missiles, the Science and Technology Daily reported on Thursday.

According to the report, the solid-fuel ramjet engine is a member of the ramjet engine family, which has the advantage of low cost, high power, and high controllability with compact size. And it is hardly accessible in the world as it demands sophisticated and highly difficult research on technology.

The new engine, can remarkably increase the firing range and mobility for air-to-air missiles and antiship missiles equipped with China's stealth aircraft including the J20 jet fighters, Song Zhongping, a military expert who used to serve in the PLA Rocket Force, told the Global Times.

The engine will enable the J20 fighters to fire from greater range and the missiles to fly faster at a hypersonic speed, which will increase their combat ability, Song said.

The research institute has established a special research team to work on the project since 2000, and in recent years, the research institute has conducted eight flight tests with the new ramjet engines.
It is a milestone in the field of engine research, which has been a bottleneck for China for quite a while, Li Jie, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times on Monday.

Once the engine achieves miniaturization, it will very likely enable China's air-to-air missiles to strike targets up to 300 kilometers at a speed faster than Mach 5, Song estimated, adding that the engine can be applied to China's latest missiles including PL12 missiles.

A lot of research needs to be done in the future to achieve that. For example, China should also conduct research on building up a super range detection network to support such a long-range strike, and the precision guiding system should be capable of processing information at super high speeds, Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of the Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times.

At present, such an engine will be mainly used on missiles, as for the manned aircraft, there is still a long way to go, since the thrust of such engines are still not enough for that, Song said.

Cruise missiles and experimental aircraft including drones can also adopt such technology to realize high-speed travel within the atmosphere, Wang added
."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1050098.shtml
Yes, i have admitted that below. Thunder is just an evolving platform at the moment, may be in 3-4 years, we might see similar features on thunder as well. Until Rafale arrives, subcontinent will be dominated by Block 3.

As for the VLRAAM Ramjet Chinese,
PL-X, it’s currently too large for the likes of light/medium weight fighters like thunder or J-10, it’s not even operational yet.
China is trying to reduce it’s size since the last pic taken of it was late 2016, no word after that.

upload_2019-12-9_11-1-56.jpeg


http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/missiles-iii.html?m=1

Ohh btw, in an assumption scenerio, can Thunders support meteor ? (Not taking integration into account, just physical features weight)

Just to be crystal clear, Your MIG-21 was lured into an ambush inside Pakistan. You think Pakistanis are that inept that they will allow a Mig-21 to chase F-16 inside Pakistani airspace ? Pakistan has officially claimed it was AIM-120 C5 which brought down MIG21. Your Wing Commander was repeatedly Warned by your ADC Squadron Leader Minty Aggerwal not to cross Border. He ignored those warnings.

Not only your pilot was unprofessional and insolent but also he couldn't read the situation that he is being led into a mouse trap


Care to remind me How Pakistan knew Northern Army Commander Lt Gen. Ranbir Singh and 16 Corps Commander Lt Gen. Paramjit Singh was there in Brigade Headquarter? And Genius Brigade headquarter is always at a good distance away from LOC so that it doesnt fall in artillery and mortar ranges.

Go check out your own THE PRINT news of your generals narrowly avoiding Pakistan airstrikes.
:lol::lol::lol::enjoy:
I like your style

After reading all the comments in this thread I came to a conclusion that many of you do not know the international politics and interest of foreign countries. Regardless what USA government says, their interests is to aligned with India to contain China and they will offer India high tech aircraft including F-35.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, USA doesn’t want Pakistan to be 100% in China’s pocket, and to prevent that they may offer Some defense equipment to Pakistan including used/surplus F-16 and upgrade package.
As I’ve mentioned before there is no talk of new F 16 aircraft at this time but even if USA does agree on New F-16, it might be in small batch of 8 to 12.
USA doesn’t trust india due to simple lack of professionalism. They have tried before, gave up now.
 
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