Air Force Question Thread

[niaz]

sorry mi don't under stand your qes but you can check size of both here. jf-17 is little big then f-16

jf-17nGeneral characteristics
Crew: 1 (2 for twin-seater)
Length: 14.94 m[40] (49 feet)
Wingspan: 9.45 m[40] (31 ft)
Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[40] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,441 kg[40] (14,200 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg[41] (20,062 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg[41] (28,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Russian RD-93 turbofan
Dry thrust: 50 kN (11,240 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 81.4 kN[41] (18,300 lbf)
Fuel Capacity: 5,130 lb [42]
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.1
Combat radius: 1,352 km (890 nmi, 1,025 mi)
Ferry range: 3,500 km[43] (2,100 mi)
Service ceiling 17,000+ m[44] (55,000 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
G-limit: +8.5 g[21]



f-16General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 49 ft 5 in (14.8 m)
Wingspan: 32 ft 8 in (9.8 m)
Height: 16 ft (4.8 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 64A204 root and tip
Empty weight: 18,900 lb (8,670 kg)
Loaded weight: 26,500 lb (12,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (19,200 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 14,590 lbf (64.9 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 23,770 lbf (105.7 kN)
Alternate powerplant: 1× General Electric F110-GE-100 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 17,155 lbf (76.3 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 28,600 lbf (128.9 kN)
Performance

Maximum speed:

At sea level: Mach 1.2 (915 mph, 1,470 km/h)
At altitude: Mach 2+ (1,500 mph, 2,414 km/h)
Combat radius: 340 NM (295 mi, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with six 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
Ferry range: 2,280 NM (2,620 mi, 4,220 km) with drop tanks
Service ceiling 50,000+ ft (15,200+ m)
Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 88.3 lb/ft² (431 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: For F100 engine: 0.898, For F110: 1.095

I was under the impression that Max Speed of J-17 was Mach 1.6. Have they managed to increase it to Mach 2.1?

Was expecting that with increased thrust, max speed may improve to Mach 1.8. To improve it to Mach 2.1 would normally require major improvement in the air intake design. May be Sir Murad can clarify.

 

[p2prada]

I was under the impression that Max Speed of J-17 was Mach 1.6. Have they managed to increase it to Mach 2.1?

Was expecting that with increased thrust, max speed may improve to Mach 1.8. To improve it to Mach 2.1 would normally require major improvement in the air intake design. May be Sir Murad can clarify.

It actually depends. Different conditions i mean.
For example, Mach 1 at SEA LEVEL is 1225km/hr
At the same time, Mach 1 at altitudes above 10000metres is 1060km/hr.

So, Mach 2.1 at high altitude (= 2226km/hr) using sea level calculations is 2572.6 km/hr.


But, at sea level calculations mach 1.8 would be ~mach 2.1

Mach is calculated by using impact pressure, static pressure and specific heat ratios. This makes it dependent on atmospheric conditions at times of measurements of speed.

Here, they have just manipulated the Mach speed to suit their own interests or just plain ignorance. Dont take such "specifications" figures seriously. Anything above Mach 1.6 is good.

 

[p2prada]

No need of re-designing air-intakes. Just mess with math, a lot cheaper.

 

[superbikez]

Kindly Comparison between PAK F16z and India Su30 MKiz ?

 

[Imran Khan]

General characteristics 0f f-16Crew: 1 +2


Length: 49 ft 5 in (14.8 m)
Wingspan: 32 ft 8 in (9.8 m)
Height: 16 ft (4.8 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m&#178
Airfoil: NACA 64A204 root and tip
Empty weight: 18,900 lb (8,670 kg)
Loaded weight: 26,500 lb (12,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (19,200 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 14,590 lbf (64.9 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 23,770 lbf (105.7 kN)
Alternate powerplant: 1× General Electric F110-GE-100 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 17,155 lbf (76.3 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 28,600 lbf (128.9 kN)
Performance

Maximum speed:

At sea level: Mach 1.2 (915 mph, 1,470 km/h)
At altitude: Mach 2+ (1,500 mph, 2,414 km/h)
Combat radius: 340 NM (295 mi, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with six 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
Ferry range: 2,280 NM (2,620 mi, 4,220 km) with drop tanks
Service ceiling 50,000+ ft (15,200+ m)
Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 88.3 lb/ft² (431 kg/m&#178
Thrust/weight: For F100 engine: 0.898, For F110: 1.095

M61A1 on display.Armament


Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan gatling gun, 515 rounds
Hardpoints: 2× wing-tip Air-to-air missile launch rails, 6× under-wing & 3× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 20,450 lb (9,276 kg) of payload
Rockets:

4× LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19× /7× Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively) or
4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets) or
4× LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4× Zuni 127 mm rockets)
Missiles:

Air-to-air missiles:
2× AIM-7 Sparrow or
6× AIM-9 Sidewinder or
6× IRIS-T or
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM or
6× Python-4
Air-to-ground missiles:
6× AGM-45 Shrike or
6× AGM-65 Maverick or
4× AGM-88 HARM
Anti-ship missiles:
2× AGM-84 Harpoon or
4× AGM-119 Penguin
Bombs:

2× CBU-87 Combined Effects Munition
2× CBU-89 Gator mine
2× CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon
Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser capable
4× GBU-10 Paveway II
6× GBU-12 Paveway II
6× Paveway-series laser-guided bombs
4× JDAM
4× Mark 84 general-purpose bombs
8× Mark 83 GP bombs
12× Mark 82 GP bombs
B61 nuclear bomb
Others:

SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod or
AN/ALQ-131 & AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods or
LANTIRN, Lockheed Martin Sniper XR & LITENING targeting pods or
up to 3× 300/330/370 US gallon Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time.
Avionics


APG-68 radar [/COLOR]


Main article: List of F-16 Fighting Falcon operators

Operators of F-16 Bahrain
Belgium
Chile
Denmark
Egypt
Greece
Jordan
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Morocco
Netherlands
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Poland
Portugal
Singapore
Republic of China (Taiwan)
South Korea
Thailand
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
United States
Venezuela

a PAF F-16 at LEJAS AFB

 

[Imran Khan]

Specifications (Sukhoi Su-30MKI)General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 22.10 m (72 ft 51 in)
Wingspan: 14.70 m (48 ft 23 in)
Height: 6.38 m (22 ft 89 in)
Wing area: 62.04 m² (667.8 ft&#178
Empty weight: 17,700 kg (39,300 lb)
Loaded weight: 34,500 kg (76,100 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 38,800 kg (85,600 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans with thrust vectoring, 131 kN (29,400 lbf) each
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500km/h)
Range: 8000km (5,330miles) (Refueled) ()
Service ceiling 20,000 m (59,000 ft)
Rate of climb: >304 m/s (70,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 556 kg/m² (113 lb/ft&#178
Thrust/weight: 0.77(at loaded weight)

Armament: Air to Air Missiles:

6 × R-27R/AA-10A/Astra[25] semi-active radar homing medium range AAM of range 80 km.
6 × R-27T (AA-10B) infrared homing seeker, medium range AAM, 70 km
2 × R-27P (AA-10C) passive radar seeker, long range AAM
10 × R-77 (AA-12) active radar homing medium range AAM, 100 km
6 × R-73 (AA-11) short range AAM, 30 km
Air to Surface Missiles:

2 × Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile, 115 km
2 × Kh-59MK Laser guided standoff Missile, 130 km
4 × Kh-35Anti-Ship Missile, 130 km
3 × PJ-10 Bramhos Supersonic Cruise Missile,300 km
6 × Kh-31P/A anti-radar missile, 70 km
6 × Kh-29T/L laser guided missile, 30 km
4 × S-8 rocket pods (80 unguided rockets)
4 × S-13 rocket pods (20 unguided rockets)
Bombs:

6 × KAB-500L laser guided bombs
3 × KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
8 × FAB-500T dumb bombs
28 × OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
32 × OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
8 × RBK-500 cluster bombs

IAFsu-30 at lejas AFB

 

[Ahassan]

Somehow depends on pilot!!!!

 

[Indicom]

Somehow depends on pilot!!!!

Not really,the PAF Vipers in their current config gets beaten even if the MKI pilot is dozing off.

No hard feelings BTW.

 

[Imran Khan]

sir pak have f-16 from 83 we have long experince with this bird and remember no f-16 down from 1994

 

[Ahassan]

Not really,the PAF Vipers in their current config gets beaten even if the MKI pilot is dozing off.

No hard feelings BTW.

No actually i was talkin about the f-16 MLU's which can some how compete with su-30's only if thr is exprnce pilot in it!!!

 

[z9-ec]

Not really,the PAF Vipers in their current config gets beaten even if the MKI pilot is dozing off.

No hard feelings BTW.

Not a chance. PAF Pilot armed with 6 AIM-120C5 or SD-10. It is a worthy bird cosidering the MLU M3

 

[su-47]

Not a chance. PAF Pilot armed with 6 AIM-120C5 or SD-10. It is a worthy bird cosidering the MLU M3

Not yet.

It will be a few years before PAF has a credible BVR capable air force. By that i mean 3 or more BVR capable squadrons.

 

[z9-ec]

Not yet.

It will be a few years before PAF has a credible BVR capable air force. By that i mean 3 or more BVR capable squadrons.

Actually, we have quite a few squadrons with limited or capable BVR considering the Mirage Rose programs. Indigenous BVRs include H2 (60 km) and H4 (120 km).

 

[Black Stone]

How are we suppose to compare them? Do you mean like Top Trumps or under a dog fight scenario? or what?.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Well according to the debriefing after Red Flag, the Americans were quick to point out the lack of Indian experience with the SU30MKI. When they would use their thrust vectoring to maneuver in dog fights, the SU30 would lose altitude with its nose pitched up. All the Americans had to do was switch to guns and dive in after them. F-16's were involved along with others, the Americans did point out the SU was a bit more advanced than legacy era aircraft but the sheer size of the plane along with the huge radar cross section and Indian pilot inexperience coupled with faulty AWACS and lack of battlefield intelligence and awareness cost them dearly. Clearly it's all about the pilot, although BVR capability has numerical superiority with the Indians.

I would say this is a fair conclusion :

WVR : F-16
BVR : SU30