Air Force Question Thread

[daredevil]

The future of A/C fights is now increasingly becoming network centric and IMHO BVR fights will the thing of the future and the better BVR capable A/Cs will rule the roost. In this context, Su30MKI has upper hand over F-16.

If it comes to WVR, all that will matter is pilot skills.

 

[Neo]

The future of A/C fights is now increasingly becoming network centric and IMHO BVR fights will the thing of the future and the better BVR capable A/Cs will rule the roost. In this context, Su30MKI has upper hand over F-16.

I agree! Though AMRAAM is a war tested and reliable. Main advantage of the R-77 Archer is \in range and maneuverability. The longer range is because the R-77 is a larger 200 mm vs 178 mm (8 vs 7 in), heavier 175 vs 150 kg (386 vs 335 lb) missile than the AMRAAM and contains more propellant.

If it comes to WVR, all that will matter is pilot skills.

Skills and experience and in this case PAF will dominate the dog fight since all F-16's are flown by senior pilots.

 

[Ahassan]

Bro all f-16's in PAF inventory are not flown by senior pilots!!!
Many of my Frndz are flying current F-16's thr rank is only Flt lt's so it doesnt matter.....

As far as R-77Missile is concerned we have some how comparable missile that is H-4 which is also radar evading,MLU f-16's armed with H-4 and AIM-120C5 can easily compete with Su-30....!!!!

 

[Muradk]

Bro all f-16's in PAF inventory are not flown by senior pilots!!!
Many of my Frndz are flying current F-16's thr rank is only Flt lt's so it doesnt matter.....

As far as R-77Missile is concerned we have some how comparable missile that is H-4 which is also radar evading,MLU f-16's armed with H-4 and AIM-120C5 can easily compete with Su-30....!!!!

The junior Officer go to 11 Sqd first before they join 9 Sqd. By the time they are in 9 Sqd they are fully trained in combat. Specially CCS being at the same base they get pretty good traning with them. 11, 9 Sqd both go head to head with Instructors of CCS. So while they are doing their Conversion they get to have some fun to see how they are doing.

 

[Ahassan]

The junior Officer go to 11 Sqd first before they join 9 Sqd. By the time they are in 9 Sqd they are fully trained in combat. Specially CCS being at the same base they get pretty good traning with them. 11, 9 Sqd both go head to head with Instructors of CCS. So while they are doing their Conversion they get to have some fun to see how they are doing.

U r rite sir thy are in 11 SQN and recently talked to them one of them is going to Germany for training purpose!!!

My question to u is do germans have good facility to help pilots in aerial combat field!!!

In aerial combat field!!! wat do u thnk germans are good or french!!!

 

[Indicom]

Dear Friends,this can go on & on,but the simple truth is that the MKI has beaten the F-16,F-15 in a dogfight and are better in both WVR & BVR as rightly explained by Col.Fernoff of USAF.But having said so the Blk-52 upgrades with a good PAF pilot will be a serious bet that I would'nt underestimate.

 

[Muradk]

U r rite sir thy are in 11 SQN and recently talked to them one of them is going to Germany for training purpose!!!

My question to u is do germans have good facility to help pilots in aerial combat field!!!

In aerial combat field!!! wat do u thnk germans are good or french!!!

Hands down French, I have had ACMs with them they are really good.
If he is going to Germany he is not going for flying he is going for some acydamic or to learn about a few toys we are getting.

 

[was]

Dear Friends,this can go on & on,but the simple truth is that the MKI has beaten the F-16,F-15 in a dogfight and are better in both WVR & BVR as rightly explained by Col.Fernoff of USAF.But having said so the Blk-52 upgrades with a good PAF pilot will be a serious bet that I would'nt underestimate.

i think you are overestimating your MKI

 

[z9-ec]

Dear Friends,this can go on & on,but the simple truth is that the MKI has beaten the F-16,F-15 in a dogfight and are better in both WVR & BVR as rightly explained by Col.Fernoff of USAF.But having said so the Blk-52 upgrades with a good PAF pilot will be a serious bet that I would'nt underestimate.

Dude, who told you F-16s lost? Perhaps, you should go through the thread all over again.

In op. red flag the USAF F-16s were able to defeat the Su-30s in simulated air combat due to inexperience/inability and faulty intel sent by awacs to the MKI. I think we even have the video of that briefing here.

 

[daredevil]

Guys, it is not wise to compare F-16 and MKI in military exercises. These military exercises are only for learning from one another, not to show which one is better.

Technically, if you put F-16 and MKI side-by-side, MKI is superior, no two ways about it.

To cut long story short, MKI has radar with a greater detection range, higher jamming immunity and better maneuverability compared to F-16

 

[z9-ec]

Guys, it is not wise to compare F-16 and MKI in military exercises. These military exercises are only for learning from one another, not to show which one is better.

Technically, if you put F-16 and MKI side-by-side, MKI is superior, no two ways about it.

To cut long story short, MKI has radar with a greater detection range, higher jamming immunity and better maneuverability compared to F-16

Actually, my intent was to justify that no matter how superior or inferior the aircraft is the final aspect which comes in to account is the pilot's ability to cope up with the scenario at hand. This by no means makes F-16 inferior but a worthy opponent against the MKI.

 

[daredevil]

Actually, my intent was to justify that no matter how superior or inferior the aircraft is the final aspect which comes in to account is the pilot's ability to cope up with the scenario at hand. This by no means makes F-16 inferior but a worthy opponent against the MKI.

Definitely, F-16 is not inferior and is a worthy opponent. If one has to talk about the numbers, IIRC, Su-30MKI’s maneuverability give this aircraft superiority in close air combat in which it excels the 'F-16C Block 50' by 15 percent, 'F-16C Block 60' by 20-30 percent (as the high wing loading significantly limits its maneuverability in close-range combat). I will try to find the link. It was on Vayusena I guess (what I posted here was from my comparison notes).

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Definitely, F-16 is not inferior and is a worthy opponent. If one has to talk about the numbers, IIRC, Su-30MKI’s maneuverability give this aircraft superiority in close air combat in which it excels the 'F-16C Block 50' by 15 percent, 'F-16C Block 60' by 20-30 percent (as the high wing loading significantly limits its maneuverability in close-range combat). I will try to find the link. It was on Vayusena I guess (what I posted here was from my comparison notes).

read up on red flag, you'll see just how maneuverable the sukhoi was against the F-15 and F-16. there are at least a hundred posts here by Blain2 and Shebazi going into detail, I don't need to post. thrust vectoring that you see your pilots perform was of absolutely no use in a real battle, just like everyone here argued earlier.

read this http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ts-usaf-briefing-about-iaf-participation.html

 

[Goodperson]

read up on red flag, you'll see just how maneuverable the sukhoi was against the F-15 and F-16. there are at least a hundred posts here by Blain2 and Shebazi going into detail, I don't need to post. thrust vectoring that you see your pilots perform was of absolutely no use in a real battle, just like everyone here argued earlier.

read this http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ts-usaf-briefing-about-iaf-participation.html

If you see the videos in Youtube they have disappeared. However you can still see them at USAF pilot describes IAF Su-30MKI performance at Red Flag-08 - The DEW Line.

One should also read comments and understand about the videos.

This is the post from the forum:
_________________________________________________
Quote:
On Ex Red Flag-the You Tube video- The other side of the Coin!!

These are comments by a friend of mine-one of our top grade professional youngsters, and a participant in the recently concluded Red Flag Ex in Nellis AFB.
1. No 1vs1s were flown during the Flag,nor did they engage in Thrust Vectoring(TV) then.IvIs were flown during the sorties in Mountain Home AFB and that too on the first day only! In none of these ex were the Su ever shot down or become vulnerable(This can of course be checked on the ACMI Pod films/casettes).
2.The data rates of turn and TV with regard to the Su is grossly out- the ones on the F-22 may be closer to the truth!! The figures for the Su are very much more than that referred to in the video!!
3.The Radar of the F-22 is superior to the Su presently!
4.Fratricide by our side did take place, more due to not being networked-it occurred when the AWACS was not available(u/s) and a very poor standard of controlling by USAF controllers( terminology and accent).This was mentioned in the debrief.Surprisingly, Fratricide was present for the F-15C as well as other allied A/C. Considering that they were better networked( Link-16,IFF-Mode 4 etc), while we had nothing,it should be a matter of concern for them and not us!!
5.FOD-Take-Off separation-was 30" at Mountain Home but extended to 1min and known to all participants before the start of the Ex!!
6.Incidentally,Mission achievement ratio was higher than 90%, whereas the mission success rates were significantly lower for the USAF, inspite of us op some 20000 kms away!!
7.Our level of experience was a standard Sqn cross-section and our youngsters performed very well in the new environment and not one rule was violated.Our professional approach was very favourably commented upon.
8. In the ultimate analyses, we had a significant edge all throughout and retained it.
It appears that this video was to pep up the US industry, showing that the F-22 is the answer to the Su-30MKI and one never knows-this will be the pitch for larger orders!!

 

[daredevil]

Goodperson, why don't you post the same in the Red Flag thread. This will clear some air with some of our friends and we can discuss some more there.