What's new

Air Force Question Thread

guys i was wondering if some one gets lost in a certian area with no civilization around and he/she have a radio is there a frequency he can use to call for help like an emergency open frequency all forces listen to?
 
Battle of Sharoora - 1969, Saudi Arabia

During the 1969 South Yemen - Saudi conflict, many PAF men and officers from different branches based at Khamis took active part in the battle.

does anyone have any further info on this topic!?
 
Battle of Sharoora - 1969, Saudi Arabia

During the 1969 South Yemen - Saudi conflict, many PAF men and officers from different branches based at Khamis took active part in the battle.

does anyone have any further info on this topic!?

In 1969, South Yemen (strong ally of USSR at that time) attacked and captured Mount Vadiya in Sharoora Province of Saudi Arabia. PAF pilots (and officers and men of other branches) who were serving in Saudi Arabia, along with the Saudi pilots drove the enemy away. The painting depicts two RSAF Lightnings successfully carrying out the close air support mission against the enemy tanks. RSAF Lightnings and F-86s took part in that battle

Battle+of+Sharoora.jpg
 
I have Aviation question


if the supersonic air has to be converted(slowed down) into subsonic before it can be fed to the engines from air intakes then does it not cause a lot of drag? what process ensures that the entry and exit of to and from the air intakes is smooth and turbulence free?
My guess is that this (super to subsonic conversion) process is resulting in a lot of fuel and energy being wasted that doesn’t directly contribute in keeping the jet afloat. explan
 
I have Aviation question


if the supersonic air has to be converted(slowed down) into subsonic before it can be fed to the engines from air intakes then does it not cause a lot of drag? what process ensures that the entry and exit of to and from the air intakes is smooth and turbulence free?
My guess is that this (super to subsonic conversion) process is resulting in a lot of fuel and energy being wasted that doesn’t directly contribute in keeping the jet afloat. explan

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/48342-j-10-vs-f-16-technical-comparison-2.html#post1109192
 
I have Aviation question


if the supersonic air has to be converted(slowed down) into subsonic before it can be fed to the engines from air intakes then does it not cause a lot of drag? what process ensures that the entry and exit of to and from the air intakes is smooth and turbulence free?
My guess is that this (super to subsonic conversion) process is resulting in a lot of fuel and energy being wasted that doesn’t directly contribute in keeping the jet afloat. explan

Dear, Good Question, But really tough to answer considering the audience.

The Supersonic air flowing into an engine is slowed down, but in effect it is also being compressed, and as a result, it is also getting HOT. Thats the whole point of burning fuel in the engine, heat the air so the it gets compressed due to rise of pressure, enabling it to pick up speed when exhausted.

This is how an (non afterburning) engine works.

1. Compress the inflowing air, using compressor stages. This increases Pressure and well as Temperature. The energy supplied to compressor is added to energy content of airflow, which is a product of Temperature, Pressure and Speed of air-mass.
2. Inject Fuel and Burn, Heating the air-mass, thus increasing its Temperature & Pressure tremendously, increasing the energy content of air-mass.
3. Run a small turbine stage from the high-temp-high-pressure air-mass, which in used provide power for the compressor stage. This reduces the overall energy content of the air-mass. But, an important thing to note is that under theoratical idealistic conditions energy added in compression is exactly the same amount as energy extracted in turbine, cancelling each other out.
4. Exhaust nozzle that allows controlled exit of airflow, designed in a way to maximize the thrust generated by the expanding high-temp-high-pressure airflow into high-speed airflow. A significant part of pressure and heat is also carried by this exhaust which is lost-energy but cannot be helped (because of 2nd Law of Thermodynamics), amounting to almost 40~50% of total energy provided by fuel. This is wasted energy. Rest is all converted to thrust.

Now for a supersonic engine a pre-requisite stage is engineered into the engine.

0. Bring the Supersonic airflow to subsonic airflow, to allow for safe and steady compressor ingestion and operation. This slowed down airflow is already precompressed and preheated as a result of inlet design geometry. This heat+pressure is not lost but adds to the total energy carried out by the airflow, but indeed limits the overall max fuel consumption. Remember the higher the max fuel consumption, the higher the energy supplied, and thus higher the max thrust of the engine.


Now the only problem with this is that when subsonic, and engine intake air is cold, lets assume 25C. But during supersonic flight, the intake air is preheated and precompressed by the inlet, lets assume 200C. Now this is bad only beacause it tends to overheat the airflow to a point where turbine components start to show fatigue and failure. Do keep in mind that Turbine-Stage is the Hottest area of any engine, and all safe engine operation depends on keeping the turbine inlet temperature into safe operating limits, which tend to overshoot when operating at supersonic speeds due to heat added by intake geometry.


I assure you that this is a very dumbed down version and the actual thermodynamic calculations are far too complex, even under assumptions of ideal condition. Removing ideal-gas conditions makes those equations nightmares, and warrents use of mainframes and supercomputers to compute data.

Regards,
Sapper
 
thanks for explaining this. I must read few times to get the gist of it.

question I am wondering is

does the process of making the supersonic airflow to subsonic (before it can be fed to the engine) create some sort of drag or not?
or does the intake design and the process of compression actually doesnt let that happen?



Consider a conveyer belt moving with a steady pace containing 4x4 cm cubes of whatever. At the end there is a grinder which can take say 2 cubes of the said size at a time. Now suddenly the conveyer belt speed is increased say times x2 and a hammer is added at the end of the conveyer belt before the cubes fall into the grinder and that hammer smashes the cubes from 4x4 to 2x2 and then 4 cubes fall into the grinder now instead of 2 of original size but since they take the same volume so there is no extra strain on the grinder and no spillage.

But in the absence of that hammer the grinder wont be able t take more cubes at higher speed and any form of obstacle to slow down the incoming cubes on the belt if result in a gridlock and a clog. Looks like I will have to let this question pass and tell myself that something magical happens that ensures that the air is slowed down and it doesn’t cause any drag because once the air is decompressed and escapes from the exhaust, the resulting thrust negates whatever initial drag would have happened at the point of super to sub sonic conversion.
 
thanks for explaining this. I must read few times to get the gist of it.

question I am wondering is

does the process of making the supersonic airflow to subsonic (before it can be fed to the engine) create some sort of drag or not?
or does the intake design and the process of compression actually doesnt let that happen?

Dear,

You are absolutely correct. There is a lot of DRAG at supersonic speed, and the action of slowing down the supersonic airflow to subsonic speeds produces quite a lot of drag. This is why the engine progressively loses its thrust to drag ratio, and there comes a point when the engine cannot accelerate the plane anymore, which determines its Top-Speed.

For example ... lets assume an imaginary plane with Mach 2 top speed.

1. At 0 speed, engine produces 100% thrust, 0% drag. Net result 100 units of acceleration.
2. At Mach 0.1, engine produces 98% thrust, 3% drag. Net result 95 units of acceleration.
3. At Mach 0.5, engine produces 90% thrust, 10% drag. Net resuly 80 units of acceleration.
4. At Mach 0.99, engine produces 85% thrust, 15% drag. Net result 70 units of acceleration.
5. At Mach 1.01, engine produces 75% thrust, 25% drag. Net result 50 units of acceleration.
6. At Mach 1.5, engine produces 60% thrust, 40% drag. Net result 20 units of acceleration.
7. At Mach 2, engine produces 50% thrust, 50% drag. Net result NO acceleration. Cannot go any faster.

Now keep in mind that the drag at supersonic speeds come from all over the plane, engine inlet is just small part of it. Infact at supersonic speeds, more than 90% of the drag is only coming from the leading edges of every surface, and not the skin of the surface itself, i.e. the wing's drag is mostly produced by its thin and sharp leading edge instead of the wing itself (that is why F104 had razor sharp leading edges, to reduce supersonic drag). Engine inlets do produce drag, but in overall scenario, this drag accounts for probable only 10~15% of the total drag produced by the entire body of the plane.

Hope this answers your querry.

Regards,
Sapper
 
RSAF Lightnings and F-86s took part in that battle

whose F-86's? PAF
 
Back
Top Bottom