Ahmadis in Pakistan

[kugga]

that is not a dictate mate, this is an open forum and we can discus things no matter where we come from. havent we seen pakistani members talking about afghanistna issues as if afghanistna is their country? they even suppport and encourage violance in afghanistan too.

I haven't seen pakistanis asking questions about afghani constitution like "why is there no age limit for an afghani president"..... these are all stupid questions.If you don't live in that country, of course, you don't have to follow their constitution then why create a fuss by asking such stupid questions...
and about violence in afghanistan buddy no one is stopping you to discuss violence in pakistan..... but constition does not harm any body outside pakistan...

 

[Ahmad]

I haven't seen pakistanis asking questions about afghani constitution like "why is there no age limit for an afghani president"..... these are all stupid questions.If you don't live in that country, of course, you don't have to follow their constitution then why create a fuss by asking such stupid questions...
and about violence in afghanistan buddy no one is stopping you to discuss violence in pakistan..... but constition does not harm any body outside pakistan...

you guys have talked about everything in afghanistan, corruption, military, politics, social issues, corruption, religion and you name it. but anyways, i dont want to waste my more time with you.

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[Fracker]

why do we have to have such a think in constituion to examine who is muslim and who is not?

Because this clause is based upon Islamic Law i.e. Quranic Laws. & Muslims are meant to follow Quran, so a Muslim country to follow Quran too.

 

[kugga]

you guys have talked about everything in afghanistan, corruption, military, politics, social issues, corruption, religion and you name it. but anyways, i dont want to waste my more time with you.

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Thanx....

 

[Ahmad]

Because this clause is based upon Islamic Law i.e. Quranic Laws. & Muslims are meant to follow Quran, so a Muslim country to follow Quran too.

good, the more you dig aoburt ahmadis if they are muslim or not, the greater problems will this make for pakistan. leave them whateverr they are.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The way you take it as a shame on Pakistanis, in precisely the same manner we (Muslims) take it as a shame if someone enounces prophecy and still goes on to live. (followers of such a kafir are not included for such a death row)

What they, or any other religious group, believe is their business. Whether you like it or not is a personal issue for you - it does not justify open discrimination and prejudice against the community on the basis of their faith.

Don't term it as a black law, instead look how hard and directly do you people hit Islam and then ask to overturn any Law, we make, to curb such strike? And how could you forget that Pakistan is an Islamic republic, kaam ki nahi chalo NAAM KI TO REHNY DO.

You are correct that we are 'naam ka Islamic Republic', since a true Islamic Republic would never allow such bigotry, intolerance and discrimination against an entire community in the name of Islam - Pakistan's laws against Ahmadi's are a shame on Pakistan and Islam, since they suggest that Islam condones 'discrimination and prejudice'.

neither this law has anything to do with slavery nor racial segregation, nor do we follow US in constituting Islamic laws.

Absolutely it does - those laws violated the rights of a community on the basis of race, our laws violate the rights of a community (though perhaps not to the extent of the Slavery and segregation laws) on the basis of their faith. At a basic level they are similar laws - only the extent of discrimination is different.

I guess you will have to bring it into Supreme courts notice for any such thing to happen and then defend your stance logically.

Indeed, were I licensed to practice law in Pakistan I would be bringing the issue up to the court. I am hopeful though that as this debate over black laws discriminating against Ahmadi'sc continues, we will build up more and more support and make it more likely that the SC will rule in favor of overturning them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why are there Ahmadis only in the subcontinent? I never heard of an Arab Ahmadi or a Persian Ahmadi or a Turkish Ahmadi, I only met Pakistani and Indian Ahmadis.

If these Ahmadis were in Saudi Arabia they would be worse off than they are in Pakistan but Arabs wouldn't tolerate them from the start.

Going by how the Saudis treat their Shia minority I have no doubt that the Ahmadis would be persecuted in Saudi Arabia, but just because some other nation 'might' treat a particular community worse that us does not mean that we not recognize that our own laws openly discriminate against them and violate their basic rights to speech and practice their faith as they see fit.

Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW said:

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

Again, this is not a theological discussion about whether Ahmadis are Muslim or not - believe what you will about them at a personal level. The concern here is that the laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan discriminate against them andviolate their basic rights and should be overturned.

Now if you have arguments suggesting that Islam supports open discrimination against a community and supports violating their basic rights, then by all means make that argument since it would be relevant to the issue of Pakistan's constitution, which is based on Islam.

 

[kugga]

Going by how the Saudis treat their Shia minority I have no doubt that the Ahmadis would be persecuted in Saudi Arabia, but just because some other nation 'might' treat a particular community worse that us does not mean that we not recognize that our own laws openly discriminate against them and violate their basic rights to speech and practice their faith as they see fit.

Again, this is not a theological discussion about whether Ahmadis are Muslim or not - believe what you will about them at a personal level. The concern here is that the laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan discriminate against them andviolate their basic rights and should be overturned.

Now if you have arguments suggesting that Islam supports open discrimination against a community and supports violating their basic rights, then by all means make that argument since it would be relevant to the issue of Pakistan's constitution, which is based on Islam.

Why don't you come to Pakistan and start a struggle here instead of just giving suggestions on a forum??

come here and you will know who want these amendments out of the constitution and who don't

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Another troll thread.Fargh bhait kar koi aur kam nahi ha kai?

I am sick of Indians most of them who don't know the ABC of our religion opening these threads.

and MODS i strongly protest why these kinds of threads are tolerated on PDF.

The other day someone opened a thread about Hinduism and that was immediately closed so why doesn't this thread deserve the same fate?

Or should i say only Islam Bashing is allowed on PDF?

It is a legitimate thread and discussion on the status of Ahmadis in Pakistan and the open discrimination against them and the violation of their basic rights by the State.

The admins have in fact made it a sticky since it deals with an issue that is in our opinion a huge black mark for Pakistan and Islam.

 

[Fracker]

good, the more you dig aoburt ahmadis if they are muslim or not, the greater problems will this make for pakistan. leave them whateverr they are.

nope there is no problem if they don't cross the side, its already been declared in constitution. Adopt it or move out. Thats what country laws are all about.

The concern here is that the laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan discriminate against them andviolate their basic rights and should be overturned.

What discrimination? are they stopped working for them self. Are they have been rejected in education system? What exactly discrimination? They are known non-muslims, even 10s of people proved this in this forum, and which is the fact. Calling Dog a dog is not a discrimination, but when you might call him cat then Dog might see it as discrimination. Thats another issue that dog get some mental problem and start calling himself a cat. Then cats might have some issue with it

 

[username]

So according to you if one differs with you he should be persecuted, what kind of sick mentality is this.

Have some shame and let others live peacefully while allowing them all the rights that one should have in a country.

As for this disgusting traitor remark, people like you would never consider the damn taliban and other such Islamic extremist groups to be traitors when there actions are much worse and have caused many so much grief. They are in complete violation of the laws of Islam but no one ever said that these people are not Muslims.

It would be best if you leave such stuff out of your discussion and we do not need people like you who spread hate and sectarian differences.

dude, you are great... why I call you great is because of the following...

in India we are taught that this is a Secular country, this is one of the main points that a student learns in his Civics lessons, so it is not a wonder that most of the Indians have (in my opinion) tolerance to other beliefs/other cultures etc...

in India every book a student gets will have the following 3 setences written on it...
Untouchability is a Sin
the rest I forgot ...

So we are taught by our education that everybody is equal... so majority of the people think so... and we have quotas in education, government jobs etc to make sure that they also come up in the society... (there are other reservations for them also, I don't know all of their privilages)...

we Indians are always proud that we are secular and we are tolerant to others beliefs and values....

and a lot of us think that Pakistan is discriminatory towards people of different beliefs and values... we almost think that all the Pakistanis put their religion only as the foremost important thing...

I am not at all aware of any person from Pakistan who is tolerant to other beliefs... this is the first time I am seeing a person from Pakistan condemning other's intolerance... Thanks... I hope lot of other Pakistanis are also like you... (I don't know whether majority are like you or not)... anyways your reply was great... keep it up buddy...

 

[Ahmad]

@username, may i ask what is taught in indian schools about the origin of mankind? in islamic countries they dont teach about devolotion theories, what is it in india?

 

[Dr.Evil]

@username, may i ask what is taught in indian schools about the origin of mankind? in islamic countries they dont teach about devolotion theories, what is it in india?

We are taught Evolution theory by Charles Darwin.

Adam and Eve stories are part of the religion and nothing to do with schools, No religion is taught in regular schools, Unless it is a Madrassa or a special religious school.

 

[kugga]

@username, may i ask what is taught in indian schools about the origin of mankind? in islamic countries they dont teach about devolotion theories, what is it in india?

who told you in Islamic country they don't teach about evolution theory?? common I have been taught Darvin's theory of evolution in 9th grade in government school... come and see science books of punjab text book board and clearify your misconceptions...

 

[Ahmad]

who told you in Islamic country they don't teach about evolution theory?? common I have been taught Darvin's theory of evolution in 9th grade in government school... come and see science books of punjab text book board and clearify your misconceptions...

ok, i didnt know about paksitan.