Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Meesna]

This is what I found there

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam

So you say this is all related to Islam.........??? I thought of finding something like state terrorism in Paksitan but couldn't find but I found this which cleary means shut down of doors of fighting against the evil forces..... Great work...

Let's see... Ahmadis are being persecuted from their point of view and from the point of view of independent people. What should Ahmadis do? Start blowing up PIA planes, trains, sunni mosques?

You have to give it to Ahmadis, they practice what they preach and probably in the circumstances it's good that more violence does not result. We really don't need that.

PS: How can you blame someone for being peaceful, even that is objectionable to you?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

What if I don't agree with what's written there?? I want my human rights in my own way who are they to dictate what is my right and what's not??

I think you do believe in Islam right, so going by the the high claims of 'freedom of religion, speech etc in Islam' all the clauses of Ordinance XX are a violation the the basic tenets of Islam(its another case that you will like a special treatment for Ahmadis, because of your bias)

if everyone would have been defining the 'human right' soon we will have a world of chaos, every country agrees on what UN has defined(its another thing if you think that UN is also a conspiracy against Muslims lol)

 

[kugga]

There are Ahmadi army men who have fought in wars, what have you got to say about that.

If you read it carefully, it says that use of the pen (intellect) to defend Islam is Jihad now, it does not mention defending ones country or nation. Another thing you might want to read here is that it does not mention the use of intellect to fight off someone who attacks you physically. It is only indicating defending a religion with intellect, not asking you to stand quite when someone attacks you.

Selective reading and twisting the words can make anything appear to be significantly different. Ahmadies have very high representation in the Pakistani Army and guess who put forward the idea for Jihad in Kashmir.

9 -11 -1948 Jinnah's death, Ahmadiyya role in Kashmir, Afghanistan and Pakistan

So for ahmadis defending one's country is ok but defending one's religion is not I mean you can not fight with sword to defend your religion....... and then you relate terrorism to this idea of jihad with swrod...... So you are clearly driven by american media.......

BTW there is a hadis of holy prophet about jihaad


Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

" Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately."

So your massiah is contradicting Teaching of holy prophet (S.A.W)

Jihaad with sword is part of Islam and will remain a part...

 

[DaRk WaVe]

So for ahmadis defending one's country is ok but defending one's religion is not I mean you can not fight with sword to defend your religion....... and then you relate terrorism to this idea of jihad with swrod...... So you are clearly driven by american media.......

BTW there is a hadis of holy prophet about jihaad


Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

" Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately."

So your massiah is contradicting Teaching of holy prophet (S.A.W)

Jihaad with sword is part of Islam and will remain a part...

I am not answerable for what T-Faz thinks but certainly Muslims are obsessed with idea of 'jihad with sword' & thats the reason why we see Islam been labeled as terrorist religion if sword would have been solution for humanity then by considering the number of wars, we would have seen a world without any problems by now

 

[kugga]

I think you do believe in Islam right, so going by the the high claims of 'freedom of religion, speech etc in Islam' all the clauses of Ordinance XX are a violation the the basic tenets of Islam(its another case that you will like a special treatment for Ahmadis, because of your bias)

if everyone would have been defining the 'human right' soon we will have a world of chaos, every country agrees on what UN has defined(its another thing if you think that UN is also a conspiracy against Muslims lol)

means all clauses in ordinance XX are in disagreement with basic tenets of Islam??
Am I understanding it right please elaborate??

 

[Meesna]

So for ahmadis defending one's country is ok but defending one's religion is not I mean you can not fight with sword to defend your religion....... and then you relate terrorism to this idea of jihad with swrod...... So you are clearly driven by american media.......

What do you expect Ahmadis to do in the current circumstances? Blow up your house for opposing them?

No seriously I think the point is you can't enforce your religion forcefully (ie fight a war for it) you have to do it peacefully but otherwise when your country is in war you should fight it.

BTW there is a hadis of holy prophet about jihaad

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

" Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately."

When are you going to follow this hadith yourself? Mullah Omer and Osama bin Ladin has called form Jihad many times. Get off the pc and into Afghanistan on the double.

 

[kugga]

I am not answerable for what T-Faz thinks but certainly Muslims are obsessed with idea of 'jihad with sword' & thats the reason why we see Islam been labeled as terrorist religion if sword would have been solution for humanity then by considering the number of wars, we would have seen a world without any problems by now

This world cannot be without problems even if there are no wars for centuries the problems will remain there....

 

[T-Faz]

Can you provide a link? Police never came in (as far as I have heard) until atrocities were over and suicide bombers had blown themselves up. The two suicide bombers caught were caught by unarmed people

Meesna, some police men did loose their lives in this attack, give credit where it is due. If they had tried to go in earlier, the suicide bomber would have just blown himself up and caused even more damage.

I know you are very concerned about the rights of minorities in Pakistan but if you go about inflaming those people who are not in agreement of your view, you will only exaggerate the problem.

It will take time and in that time you can change public opinion gradually by highlighting the need for unity as Pakistani's. Going back to the vision of Jinnah, our great founding father.

Finger pointing will not lead you anywhere, we can sit here and discuss it all day but nothing will be resolved. We have an opportunity now to correct our mistakes and you have to utilise this very carefully.

There is a silver lining in everything, you should not oppose but rather educate others politely.

No point in going round in a circle when you know arguing does not provide the needed results.

I would urge you to change the opinions of others with your actions and words rather than arguing capabilities.

 

[kugga]

No seriously I think the point is you can't enforce your religion forcefully (ie fight a war for it) you have to do it peacefully but otherwise when your country is in war you should fight it.

The idea of jihad with sword is not to impose your religion on others.... Like most people here believe..... But you cannot rule the option even in Quran it has been mentioned many a times to fight for the cause of Allah and there is one hadith that if you a bad thing going on in front of you stop it with your hand.... So jihad is against evil systems evil deeds not to impose your religion on other..... and I know the next question will be who's gonna define the evil systems or evil deeds... and people will blame me self-righteous for that as blame them self-righteous for what they think......

Evey one thinks that he is thinking right so don't call others self-righteous

 

[Meesna]

Meesna, some police men did loose their lives in this attack, give credit where it is due.

I do specially low ranking police who do what they are told, putting life at risk for next to nothing in return.

I was coming from a different angle as to what the authorities may be up to and referring to media reports that some police officers may have facilitated the attackers.

 

[T-Faz]

So for ahmadis defending one's country is ok but defending one's religion is not I mean you can not fight with sword to defend your religion....... and then you relate terrorism to this idea of jihad with swrod...... So you are clearly driven by american media.......

BTW there is a hadis of holy prophet about jihaad


Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

" Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately."

So your massiah is contradicting Teaching of holy prophet (S.A.W)

Jihaad with sword is part of Islam and will remain a part...

Jihad means struggle and the often repeated term "al-jihad fi sabil Allah" means striving in the way of Allah.

I suggest you revise your point if view by using the word struggle in the quote and then understand it.

Back in those days, the Islamic empire was a nation, now we are distinct Islamic nations and we have differing interest.

Why did the Islamic nations not help Iraq, why did no single Muslim country help Afghanistan. You have to understand that differing time have differing circumstances.

If you want to continue your Jihad by sword, I suggest you pick one up and run towards Afghanistan to defeat the aggressors. Let's see how much success you have.

 

[Meesna]

The idea of jihad with sword is not to impose your religion on others.... Like most people here believe..... But you cannot rule the option even in Quran it has been mentioned many a times to fight for the cause of Allah and there is one hadith that if you a bad thing going on in front of you stop it with your hand.... So jihad is against evil systems evil deeds not to impose your religion on other..... and I know the next question will be who's gonna define the evil systems or evil deeds... and people will blame me self-righteous for that as blame them self-righteous for what they think......

Evey one thinks that he is thinking right so don't call others self-righteous

I'll believe you when I know you went to Jiahd yourself...no point preaching what you do not practice.

 

[kugga]

I'll believe you when I know you went to Jiahd yourself...no point preaching what you do not practice.

If some leader of Islam will call for jihaad I'll offer my services to him and you should remain silent at that time coz your leader has told you not fight .......

Right now Muslims are lacking leadership but soon InshaAllah we'll have one.... What's going on in Afghanistan is under some invisible leader... Mullah omer, OBL are just some invisible figures....


Muslims fight one on one with the Evil forces they do not destroy Worship places, they do not kill innocent children ,women and older men this is what a Jihad is.... not what's going on Pakistan....

and I don't know about Afghanistan whether to call it jihad or not....

 

[kugga]

BTW the topic was of why Ahmadis are not considered Muslims or in twisted words why they are not allowed to practice their religion freely......

And I posted the hadith and a statement of Mirza sb just to show the contradiction between the two... it's not about me going to Jihaad or you

 

[sparklingway]

BTW the topic was of why Ahmadis are not considered Muslims or in twisted words why they are not allowed to practice their religion freely......

And I posted the hadith and a statement of Mirza sb just to show the contradiction between the two... it's not about me going to Jihaad or you

No, the topic was treatment handed out to them, social isolation and bigotry amongst the masses and not concerned entirely with the religious argument.