Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Meesna]

I agree with this part of your post...... My opinion is same like you it's an act of terrorism not an act of attack on a minority.... it is general not specific

There are a whole load of issues that need to be resolved before a conclusion can be made. The alleged Hamid Mir tape inciting Taliban. The fact that the perpetrators are from Lashkar-e-Jhangvi a branch of Sipah-e-Sahaba sponsored by Punjab government. Reports that some police officers at the site are suspected to have facilitated perpetuators. The perpetuators claim that they were incited against Ahmadis…and so on.

I never said that those terrorist are doing a very pious job by killing innocent people but don't blame it any one when it's not clear who attacked....

If we don’t' know who attacked then we don't know why they did it was it an act of terrorism or attack on Ahmadis specifically. You contradict you above statement.

However the penetrates have confessed to be part of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the deobandi extremist organisation linked with Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba.

The occasion demands that we condemn the terrorists and terrorism and notscold the victims, as it sounds like we are more sympathetic to the terrorists than victims for some reason. This reeks of hypocrisy kinda like the cartoon.

and who is defining human rights??

Easy, treat others like you want to be treated yourself.

 

[kugga]

There are a whole load of issues that need to be resolved before a conclusion can be made. The alleged Hamid Mir tape inciting Taliban. The fact that the perpetrators are from Lashkar-e-Jhangvi a branch of Sipah-e-Sahaba sponsored by Punjab government. Reports that some police officers at the site are suspected to have facilitated perpetuators. The perpetuators claim that they were incited against Ahmadis…and so on.



If we don’t' know who attacked then we don't know why they did it was it an act of terrorism or attack on Ahmadis specifically. You contradict you above statement.

However the penetrates have confessed to be part of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the deobandi extremist organisation linked with Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba.

The occasions demands that we condemn the terrorists and terrorism and nor scold the victims, as it sounds like we are more sympathetic to the terrorists than victims for some reason. This reeks of hypocrisy kinda like the cartoon.



Easy, treat others like you want to be treated yourself.

Every wants himself to be treated in different manners every being is different so comfort level of every one is different doesn't your statement make human rights a personal thing??

I mean the human right for you might not be human right for me

 

[kugga]

There are a whole load of issues that need to be resolved before a conclusion can be made. The alleged Hamid Mir tape inciting Taliban. The fact that the perpetrators are from Lashkar-e-Jhangvi a branch of Sipah-e-Sahaba sponsored by Punjab government. Reports that some police officers at the site are suspected to have facilitated perpetuators. The perpetuators claim that they were incited against Ahmadis…and so on.



If we don’t' know who attacked then we don't know why they did it was it an act of terrorism or attack on Ahmadis specifically. You contradict you above statement.

However the penetrates have confessed to be part of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the deobandi extremist organisation linked with Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba.

The occasions demands that we condemn the terrorists and terrorism and nor scold the victims, as it sounds like we are more sympathetic to the terrorists than victims for some reason. This reeks of hypocrisy kinda like the cartoon.



Easy, treat others like you want to be treated yourself.

No one is taking sides with terrorist problem arisses when you blame this act of terrorism on whole society and state that's where the problem rise and that's where we start speaking against ahamadis....... when There was an attack on Imam baari on minority sect of Muslims(Shias) no one said that it was sponsored by state no one said it's due to fault of society etc etc..... and no one spoken against Shias no one spoken against sunnis when the Mazaar of Rehmaan baba was under attack because berailvi sunnis did not blame it on state......

 

[T-Faz]

and why the biggest leader of ahmadya jamaat is busy in labeling Pakistan as terrorist state??.... that's what good they are doing for Paksitan and Muslims

Do not twist things to suit your argument, the website posted is from the Lahore Ahmadiyya Jamaat, they are separate from the Main branch. What was on their website is not a statement or quote from any leader, but rather an image of a banner that was used in Punjab, approved by the Punjabi government and it incited hatred for jews, christians and ahmadies.

Use neutral sources like me to find information, this is the website which was refrenced, it clearly reads Lahore Ahmadiyya Jamaat.

The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam

The real Ahmadiyya website is this one (confirm with Meesna just in case).

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website

The best thing now is that you people are actually discussing rights of this minority, this is the reason why we have this thread. We are not a religious website, so abstain from that but our political issues are worth discussing. That is why this is in the 'National Political Issues' section.

 

[kugga]

This is what I found there

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam

So you say this is all related to Islam.........??? I thought of finding something like state terrorism in Paksitan but couldn't find but I found this which cleary means shut down of doors of fighting against the evil forces..... Great work...

 

[Meesna]

It was no way a state sponsored terrorism every one mind it everyone condemned the attack right after the attacks took place...Rahman malik, CM and others visited the hospitals where they were admitted.... then why so much hue and cry that no body condemned.... why they just tell that what they want from govrnment to prove that they were not behind these attacks....

You are not reading the news as well as various postings on this forum. It is well established that government specially Punjab government has given open space to Mullahs to raise hated including but not limited to banners. Pleas read those posts, no point repeating what has already been said numerous times.

Visiting the victims is no proof of government non-support for terrorists. What happened in Gojra? Shehabz sharif government let it happen despite pleas by Christians that incitement was being made to kill them from local mosques by sipah-e-shaba members. After the incident shehbaz sharif shed some alligator tears, and where are perpetrates now? Out in the open with full support from Rana Sanaullah minister of lawlessness. The police officer who managed the Gojra event was later appointed police chief of Lahore by Shehbaz Sharif.

6 state policmen were killed while guarding the so called state sponsored terrorist from being taken off by terrorist what else you want from state to prove that they were not behind these attacks....

Can you provide a link? Police never came in (as far as I have heard) until atrocities were over and suicide bombers had blown themselves up. The two suicide bombers caught were caught by unarmed people [this has been mentioend in front of Rana Sanaullah in a TV porgamme and he did not contadict it] and were kept under custody until police came in after half an hour later everything has been done. Rana Nisar cousin of Rana Sana did not raise a finger to protect the victims in and just stood by across the ground from Model Town mosque.

many are saying that Qadiyani's leaders were behind these attacks how it feels when the blame comes straight to you ??

Can you quote someone? I only remember rereading this of Deobandi Mufti Naeemi. The perpetrators admit to being part of deobandi terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Jhangvi with detail of their background of education in madrassa etc. is also known, so one can imagine why Mufti Naeemi would be concerned. Although I would be ashamed if my Mufti were making such deceitful statements despite evidence to the contrary

 

[Meesna]

I mean the human right for you might not be human right for me

I have no doubt of that.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

This is what I found there

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam

So you say this is all related to Islam.........??? I thought of finding something like state terrorism in Paksitan but couldn't find but I found this which cleary means shut down of doors of fighting against the evil forces..... Great work...

look at that, he said it right, the real Jihad is the bloodless jihad, we would not have seen Muslims been humiliated on every corner of world due their belief in militant Islam, the fight against against 'evil forces' (which are defined by self righteous people) has indeed yielded great results isn't it? What do you want, you everyone to declare this damn world a 'dar-ul-harb' & go for a kill, why are you taking the meaning you want to take?

 

[T-Faz]

This is what I found there

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam

So you say this is all related to Islam.........??? I thought of finding something like state terrorism in Paksitan but couldn't find but I found this which cleary means shut down of doors of fighting against the evil forces..... Great work...

There are Ahmadi army men who have fought in wars, what have you got to say about that.

If you read it carefully, it says that use of the pen (intellect) to defend Islam is Jihad now, it does not mention defending ones country or nation. Another thing you might want to read here is that it does not mention the use of intellect to fight off someone who attacks you physically. It is only indicating defending a religion with intellect, not asking you to stand quite when someone attacks you.

Selective reading and twisting the words can make anything appear to be significantly different. Ahmadies have very high representation in the Pakistani Army and guess who put forward the idea for Jihad in Kashmir.

9 -11 -1948 Jinnah's death, Ahmadiyya role in Kashmir, Afghanistan and Pakistan

 

[kugga]

I have no doubt of that.

So stop beating the drum of human rights when no one can define one.... stop imposing your western human rights mind set on us...

P.S. by you I mean ppl like you

 

[T-Faz]

One thing that I find odd is that Sir Zafarullah Khan, a well renowned Ahmadi and Amir of the Jamaat was personally invited to live in the guest houses of the King of Saudi Arabia when he went to perform Umra.

In March, 1958, he performed Umra and visited the shrine of Prophet Muhammad in Medina, Saudi Arabia.He also met Sultan Abdul Aziz Ibne Saud and stayed in the Royal Palace as the King's personal guest.He performed Hajj in the year 1967 and produced a new English translation of the Holy Qur'an in 1970.

I mean his affiliation was well known, he was outspoken and I am surprised that this happened.

 

[Meesna]

No one is taking sides with terrorist problem arisses when you blame this act of terrorism on whole society and state that's where the problem rise and that's where we start speaking against ahamadis.......

Who has blamed the whole society? Can you quote? Granted our society has deteriorated a lot but there are still a lot of good people and ordinary people in general do not support extremism. However ordinary people count for so little and the role of the really effective portions of society; Religious figures, Media and Government etc is not exemplary.

when There was an attack on Imam baari on minority sect of Muslims(Shias) no one said that it was sponsored by state no one said it's due to fault of society etc etc..... and no one spoken against Shias no one spoken against sunnis when the Mazaar of Rehmaan baba was under attack because berailvi sunnis did not blame it on state......

If one incident does not appear to have any state sponsorship it does not mean there aren't other incidents caused by elements with some patronage from government. Every incident needs to be seen in its own context.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I mean the human right for you might not be human right for me

what kinda statement is that? You or he is no one to define Human Rights, definition of Human Rights is been stated by the 'concerned people' & Ordinance XX is violation of basic Human Rights...

 

[kugga]

what kinda statement is that? You or he is no one to define Human Rights, definition of Human Rights is been stated by the 'concerned people' & Ordinance XX is violation of basic Human Rights...

What if I don't agree with what's written there?? I want my human rights in my own way who are they to dictate what is my right and what's not??

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

cry me a river ,,, oh shuks...!!!