Ahmadis in Pakistan

[apophenia]

Can you give some evidence or references to what you are talking about here?

We have been through this Israel business and nothing came out of it if I remember correctly.

Qadianis choose craven support for oppressive regimes since its inception. Its well documented that during the Khilfat and non-cooperation movements, jammat was found firmly on the side of British Government , issuing pamphlets publicizing that obedience of God and obedience of British in the light of Islam. It doesn’t help jammat when their prophet stated in his book that British Govt should give him a lot of perks because he is their self-grown plant or praising queen victoria, the british army during the boer war atrocities, inviting shimon peres, the butcher of Qana, as a guest of honour to an iftari when IDF was on its killing spree. After 9/11 Naseem Mahdi is busy voicing concern about terrorists activities in the USA and everywhere by talibans' or extremist moslims, but never said anything against genocide committed by serbs, jews and mercenaries(US) for whom he is willing to defend with his life.

 

[Meesna]

You have missed the point . my focus was on the point that Pakistan was not the only country that have declared them non believers. The merits was law was not the point. Secondly never said that WML or Pakistan has a clean slate.

You missed my point. What sane country has banned them? This speaks for itself. Its seems the problem is with these countries not with Ahmadis.

 

[Meesna]

Qadianis choose craven support for oppressive regimes since its inception. Its well documented that during the Khilfat and non-cooperation movements, jammat was found firmly on the side of British Government , issuing pamphlets publicizing that obedience of God and obedience of British in the light of Islam. It doesn’t help jammat when their prophet stated in his book that British Govt should give him a lot of perks because he is their self-grown plant or praising queen victoria, the british army during the boer war atrocities, inviting shimon peres, the butcher of Qana, as a guest of honour to an iftari when IDF was on its killing spree.

Can you present evidence of any wrong doings instead of just shooting in the air? Particularly about your 9/11 and Israeli links claims? Many prominent Muslim leaders have joined eid celebrations at the White house with butcher of Iraq and Afghanistan President Bush. Similarly in other European countries prominent Muslim leaders remain in touch with and attend ceremonies with the likes of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. This does not show their collaboration in those atrocities. When you are a citizen of a country you have to deal with its officials with due etiquettes despite disagreeing with their policies. The Palestinian MPs in Israel even take the Israeli oath as they don’t have a choice living under the Israeli system. You can't blame the citizens of a country for following the civilised norms of a society.

The British part is long gone and was in a totally different era. It's hard to phantom exactly what were the circumstances then. It's totally unfair to judge Ahmadis in today's Pakistan for what is perceived to have happened long time ago especially when Ahmadis have been part and parcel of the Pakistan movement. If anything you should be using your grudge against all those Mullahs who opposed Pakistan movement and even now are supporting thsoe terororist who are causing chaos and bloodshed in the country as that's more recent and relevant to Pakistan. Though I don’t' see any such condemnation from your part.

After 9/11 Naseem Mahdi is busy voicing concern about terrorists activities in the USA and everywhere by talibans' or extremist moslims, but never said anything against genocide committed by serbs, jews and mercenaries(US) for whom he is willing to defend with his life.

Any citizen of any country should be concerned about safety of its country and should be loyal to it in exchange for the security and rights the state provides to the citizen. This is despite a citizen's disagreement with the state policies overseas. Not every issue can be addressed at all times. All of us do that; we address issues which are relevant at any time that does not mean we agree with other atrocities. Its also depends upon how much media exposure one gets and what sort of questions an anchor chooses to ask. You may want to contact him and get his views on other atrocities.

 

[kugga]

Any citizen of any country should be concerned about safety of its country and should be loyal to it in exchange for the security and rights the state provides to the citizen. This is despite a citizen's disagreement with the state policies overseas. Not every issue can be addressed at all times. All of us do that; we address issues which are relevant at any time that does not mean we agree with other atrocities. Its also depends upon how much media exposure one gets and what sort of questions an anchor chooses to ask. You may want to contact him and get his views on other atrocities.

and why the biggest leader of ahmadya jamaat is busy in labeling Pakistan as terrorist state??.... that's what good they are doing for Paksitan and Muslims

 

[Meesna]

All Major Muslim Religious leaders have publicly condemned the act of Terrorism against the Ahmadis and it has been posted in this thread earlier.

The same ones who have created this climate of hate in the first place by declaring murtad/wajibul-qatrl etc etc. Ibtisam Ilahi Zaheer has twice declared Ahmadies murtad (read worthy of killing) even after the atrocity. In one programme he was kind enough to say that people should not kill murtads by themselves but that state should do it.

People making these cartoons are doing nothing but fueling the unwanted divide among Religions in Pakistan.

I think if you look honestly, it's the group portrayed in the cartoon who have single handedly managed to fuel religious divide among Pakistanis. Pakistan was doing fine until these Mullahs got all involved in national politics starting from causing the 1953 marshal law and thus allowing military to take the driving seat. See Munir report for details.

 

[apophenia]

You missed my point. What sane country has banned them? This speaks for itself. Its seems the problem is with these countries not with Ahmadis.

so by your logic whomever bans them are insane.

 

[Meesna]

and why the biggest leader of ahmadya jamaat is busy in labeling Pakistan as terrorist state??.... that's what good they are doing for Paksitan and Muslims

Can you quote something? There is a difference between saying there is issue of terrorism and a terrorist state. All Pakistanis are concerned about terrorism situation in Pakistan and feel that authorities must deal with it as soon as possible for both the safety of the people of Pakistan and Pakistan's reputation.

And why is your anger not diverted towards those terrorists who are causing this harm to both Pakistan and Pakistanis and towards those religious groups who are supporting those terrorists, instead of blaming the victims of terrorism who have a justified right to complain.

 

[Meesna]

so by your logic whomever bans them are insane.

I look forward to a list of such countries from your side who have banned them but have an otherwise good human rights track record.

 

[kugga]

so by your logic whomever bans them are insane.

Everyone who does not follow the footsteps of europeon secularism or american secularism is definitely insane......

Faith is personal just because some guys in history wrote that in their book....

 

[kugga]

Can you quote something? There is a difference between saying there is issue of terrorism and a terrorist state. All Pakistanis are concerned about terrorism situation in Pakistan and feel that authorities must deal with it as soon as possible for both the safety of the people of Pakistan and Pakistan's reputation.

And why is your anger not diverted towards those terrorists who are causing this harm to both Pakistan and Pakistanis and towards those religious groups who are supporting those terrorists, instead of blaming the victims of terrorism who have a justified right to complain.

Go back a few pages and find the post by Black blood

 

[Meesna]

Everyone who does not follow the footsteps of europeon secularism or american secularism is definitely insane......

Faith is personal just because some guys in history wrote that in their book....

Human rights are human rights, if your beliefs religious or otherwise don't care for them don't blame Europeans for that.

 

[kugga]

There is a difference between saying there is issue of terrorism and a terrorist state. All Pakistanis are concerned about terrorism situation in Pakistan and feel that authorities must deal with it as soon as possible for both the safety of the people of Pakistan and Pakistan's reputation.

.

I agree with this part of your post...... My opinion is same like you it's an act of terrorism not an act of attack on a minority.... it is general not specific

And why is your anger not diverted towards those terrorists who are causing this harm to both Pakistan and Pakistanis and towards those religious groups who are supporting those terrorists, instead of blaming the victims of terrorism who have a justified right to complain.

I never said that those terrorist are doing a very pious job by killing innocent people but don't blame it any one when it's not clear who attacked....

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

Human rights are human rights, if your beliefs religious or otherwise don't care for them don't blame Europeans for that.

and who is defining human rights??

 

[Meesna]

Go back a few pages and find the post by Black blood

Has he blamed the victims too? This is sympathising with the atrocity. When 90 people have been killed, they have a right complain, especially when state actually fostered this environment itself and can not be absolved. You should be complaining to the government for encouraging and enforcing apartheid instead of scolding the victims. By this standard no Muslim should complain in India or elsewhere or they are branded traitors. People have a right to make justifiable complaints.

 

[Nahraf]

The fact remains that Qadianis are non-Muslims as per cardinal rules if Islam. The Christian and Hindus have no major problems in Pakistan. While heterodox Muslim sects like Ismailis (Agha Khani) and Bohris have no problems at all. It is Qadiani that themselves create problems and then play the victim. Qadianis themselves challenge and invite attention of their opponents. The ball is in the Qadiani court they have to change thier tactics and keep low profile. But the Qadiani leadership sitting pretty in London does not care about Qadiani living in Pakistan they have their own long term agenda. All politics is local and person on the street will again react the same way to the Qadiani provocations.

 

[kugga]

Has he blamed the victims too? This is sympathising with the atrocity. When 90 people have been killed, they have a right complain, especially when state actually fostered this environment itself and can not be absolved. You should be complaining to the government for encouraging and enforcing apartheid instead of scolding the victims. By this standard no Muslim should complain in India or elsewhere or they are branded traitors. People have a right to make justifiable complaints.

It was no way a state sponsored terrorism every one mind it everyone condemned the attack right after the attacks took place...Rahman malik, CM and others visited the hospitals where they were admitted.... then why so much hue and cry that no body condemned.... why they just tell that what they want from govrnment to prove that they were not behind these attacks....

6 state policmen were killed while guarding the so called state sponsored terrorist from being taken off by terrorist what else you want from state to prove that they were not behind these attacks....

many are saying that Qadiyani's leaders were behind these attacks how it feels when the blame comes straight to you ??