After Failing to Provide Karachiites with a Public Transport System PPP Government Deprives them of Their Two Wheelers too

[El Sidd]

Making them resign can only be done if you have support across Pakistan, when fellow Pakistanis see the situation for themselves and support what is right.

How does that work? Why is your rep bound to opinions from different part of the country and not to you?

Naturalizing millions of undocumented citizens? Care to elaborate?

Yes gladly. 3rd generation Pakistan born Afghans, Bengalis, Rohingyas, Uzbek, Tatars and those who arrived illegally from different administrative units of India post 1975.

The example of FATA is idiotic

It's a well placed federally administered system example

 

[Syed1.]

You raise some good points, and I don't disagree with them.

Regarding the political part, it might be true that PTI is superior to MQM and PPP in every way, but they have stooped to such a low level that the people of Karachi would now regard them in the same bunch of parties.
Whatever the case, IK still has time. The security situation in Karachi is stable, business and construction is booming, skyscrapers popping up by the minute. I'll give it to IK that he fixed a major problem in Karachi with his package for builders to build skyscrapers. The developers in Karachi finally realized the solution is not to expand Karachi further but to go taller and higher. Many problems still remain, he has the time to fix them.
He has done enough for Karachi's real estate, the building package in enough, there's no need for more real estate projects by which I'm referring to Bundal Island, instead he should get his act right and fix the problems in the existing city, not make it even bigger (the mistake of earlier govts).

Karachi walay have developed a grudge against PTI not because of them being better or worse than PPP/MQM but because they continue to hide behind 18th Amendment and are unable to the make the provincial government do anything.

Before 2018 elections everyone in Karachi was already aware of 18th amendment and how people of interior Sindh will still impose these Sindhi waderas on us, that is the very reason a federal level party like PTI was voted for and regional party like MQM was "rejected". The logic being that if PTI have the federal government they will strong arm and force the Sindh government to stop being a b_tch. However, PTI proved to be very weak and do not seem to take any action against the Sindh government. That coupled with the fact that IK himself hardly ever comes to Karachi to atleast pay lipservice to the people's troubles.

Recently in the last couple of months there has been a release of funds to MNAs and local streets are being carpeted and water/sewerage lines being put in. This needs to continue till 2023 for PTI to have any chance from Karachi.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Karachi walay have developed a grudge against PTI not because of them being better or worse than PPP/MQM but because they continue to hide behind 18th Amendment and are unable to the make the provincial government do anything.

Before 2018 elections everyone in Karachi was already aware of 18th amendment and how people of interior Sindh will still impose these Sindhi waderas on us, that is the very reason a federal level party like PTI was voted for and regional party like MQM was "rejected". The logic being that if PTI have the federal government they will strong arm and force the Sindh government to stop being a b_tch. However, PTI proved to be very weak and do not seem to take any action against the Sindh government. That coupled with the fact that IK himself hardly ever comes to Karachi to atleast pay lipservice to the people's troubles.

Recently in the last couple of months there has been a release of funds to MNAs and local streets are being carpeted and water/sewerage lines being put in. This needs to continue till 2023 for PTI to have any chance from Karachi.

Bro, I've come to realize that the solution isn't in giving Karachi autonomy.

Why?

Because there'll always be some actor who'd want to reverse it. This is a Pakistan-wide problem, and the true solution lies in changing the system so that (1) everyone benefits and (2) prevents reversals.

IMO the only solution is the removal of the provincial system.

We should be a unitary country broken into dozens of small districts, and each district gets a locally elected government that runs everything (e.g., infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc).

Karachi would be one such district.

Each district works out a tax revenue sharing agreement with the center, and renegotiates every 3-5 years based on the district's needs and output. So we know Karachi will need rebuilding, so for the first 5 years; in this case, it'd be a net-taker (i.e., the gov't gives 20-30% on top of 100% of Karachi's revenue), and after that, Karachi starts giving to the center in small increments until it reaches 30-40% (after 20 years).

Otherwise, we give the districts autonomy in everything. If some of them want to live in the stone age, I say we let them. Eventually, the people who dislike those state of affairs will move to another district, and IMO the bad ones will gradually die out (there's no provincial system to hide stragglers).

This is the system that would work, but who's going to implement it? We've got too many people up top with a vested interested in screwing out hardworking people. Karachi is the melting pot of the problems, but these issues affect everyone trying to do better in Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

Bro, I've come to realize that the solution isn't in giving Karachi autonomy.

Why?

Because there'll always be some actor who'd want to reverse it. This is a Pakistan-wide problem, and the true solution lies in changing the system so that (1) everyone benefits and (2) prevents reversals.

IMO the only solution is the removal of the provincial system.

We should be a unitary country broken into dozens of small districts, and each district gets a locally elected government that runs everything (e.g., infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc).

Karachi would be one such district.

Each district works out a tax revenue sharing agreement with the center, and renegotiates every 3-5 years based on the district's needs and output. So we know Karachi will need rebuilding, so for the first 5 years; in this case, it'd be a net-taker (i.e., the gov't gives 20-30% on top of 100% of Karachi's revenue), and after that, Karachi starts giving to the center in small increments until it reaches 30-40% (after 20 years).

Otherwise, we give the districts autonomy in everything. If some of them want to live in the stone age, I say we let them. Eventually, the people who dislike those state of affairs will move to another district, and IMO the bad ones will gradually die out (there's no provincial system to hide stragglers).

This is the system that would work, but who's going to implement it? We've got too many people up top with a vested interested in screwing out hardworking people. Karachi is the melting pot of the problems, but these issues affect everyone trying to do better in Pakistan.

Pakistan's establishment did not agree to 18th amendment so that a populist can conjure vote on it.

There is absolute dedication to 18th amendment and provincialism as strategic outlook of the federation.

By 2030 people would come to realize the fruitful nature of it.

It's a travesty of human moral degradation that Urban Karachiites want to progress while surrounded by abject poverty.

Karachi will get divided into 3 proper cities once official population goes below 10 million.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Pakistan's establishment did not agree to 18th amendment so that a populist can conjure vote on it.

There is absolute dedication to 18th amendment and provincialism as strategic outlook of the federation.

By 2030 people would come to realize the fruitful nature of it.

It's a travesty of human moral degradation that Urban Karachiites want to progress while surrounded by abject poverty.

Karachi will get divided into 3 proper cities once official population goes below 10 million.

I doubt the ones who wrote the 18th amendment thought along those lines. There's nothing in their track record to suggest sincerity, be it about Karachi or interior Sindh.

If we want to solve the abject poverty, then we need a system that transfers money from the ones who make it to the ones who need it. The national gov't can give the areas in need the money they need, and the money must come from the tax revenues of net-earners such as Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, etc.

In turn, give each local district -- including those in interior Sindh -- individualized autonomy and the right to decide how to use that money. Not only that, but megacities like Karachi would be net-givers in the long-run (but in the short-run, they need funds to rebuild due to provincial mismanagement).

I'm sure that -- if we adopt a district system with tax sharing and revenue transfers -- we'll see the rise of new urban centers in Sindh, KP, Baluchistan and Punjab.

We need to move away from a few megacities to 50-60 robust and prosperous small cities. But you need a system that cultivates localized growth, and that only way to do it is to diffuse provincial power to the local level.

 

[PakFactor]

Karachi walay have developed a grudge against PTI not because of them being better or worse than PPP/MQM but because they continue to hide behind 18th Amendment and are unable to the make the provincial government do anything.

Before 2018 elections everyone in Karachi was already aware of 18th amendment and how people of interior Sindh will still impose these Sindhi waderas on us, that is the very reason a federal level party like PTI was voted for and regional party like MQM was "rejected". The logic being that if PTI have the federal government they will strong arm and force the Sindh government to stop being a b_tch. However, PTI proved to be very weak and do not seem to take any action against the Sindh government. That coupled with the fact that IK himself hardly ever comes to Karachi to atleast pay lipservice to the people's troubles.

Recently in the last couple of months there has been a release of funds to MNAs and local streets are being carpeted and water/sewerage lines being put in. This needs to continue till 2023 for PTI to have any chance from Karachi.

If PTI goes past the 18th Amendment then your going to have those parties disrupt the country with darnas and bring out the jackals of society out.

 

[jamahir]

Due to methane gas emissions? Or time lost while commuting?

Wah ! You are reaching @El Sidd level of one-liners.

 

[El Sidd]

I doubt the ones who wrote the 18th amendment thought along those lines. There's nothing in their track record to suggest sincerity, be it about Karachi or interior Sindh.

If we want to solve the abject poverty, then we need a system that transfers money from the ones who make it to the ones who need it. The national gov't can give the areas in need the money they need, and the money must come from the tax revenues of net-earners such as Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, etc.

In turn, give each local district -- including those in interior Sindh -- individualized autonomy and the right to decide how to use that money. Not only that, but megacities like Karachi would be net-givers in the long-run (but in the short-run, they need funds to rebuild due to provincial mismanagement).

I'm sure that -- if we adopt a district system with tax sharing and revenue transfers -- we'll see the rise of new urban centers in Sindh, KP, Baluchistan and Punjab.

We need to move away from a few megacities to 50-60 robust and prosperous small cities. But you need a system that cultivates localized growth, and that only way to do it is to diffuse provincial power to the local level.

But isn't this happening already? With SEZs and small business incentives and extensive power network and local body system?

I am no one to judge sincerity of the author but technical content of the working document is not flawed.

This 1970s plan has run parallel to other initiatives taken by the country. One can argue for lack of dedication or focus.

Megacities are always in a state of build and rebuild with migrants pouring in and out with each fiscal quarter.

Its in Karachis best interest that Gwadar is up and running asap.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But isn't this happening already? With SEZs and small business incentives and extensive power network and local body system?

I am no one to judge sincerity of the author but technical content of the working document is not flawed.

This 1970s plan has run parallel to other initiatives taken by the country. One can argue for lack of dedication or focus.

Megacities are always in a state of build and rebuild with migrants pouring in and out with each fiscal quarter.

Its in Karachis best interest that Gwadar is up and running asap.

The '1970s' plan saw the ruin of our industrial sector and the creation of opportunist-chamchay politicians across both the right and left. Again, the intentions of the architects show in the reality.

We have over-bloated SOEs, state institutions staffed with all types of quota workers and party workers, a over-extended and -- frankly -- abused Karachi (by the center and province -- and I say this as someone born in Punjab), and a clinging to the status-quo that benefits only a few.

IMO, the provincial plan was simply designed to support the needs of the corrupt, and it has remained that way without any disruption. There is no real-world proof to show that it has done anything but the results we "benefit" from today.

In the case of our provincial system, let's throw the baby out with the bath water because the baby is Bilawal.

It's time to build a Pakistan for Pakistanis, not Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Karachiites, Baluchis, etc.

 

[Neurath]

How does that work? Why is your rep bound to opinions from different part of the country and not to you?
Yes gladly. 3rd generation Pakistan born Afghans, Bengalis, Rohingyas, Uzbek, Tatars and those who arrived illegally from different administrative units of India post 1975.


It's a well placed federally administered system example

He doesn't need to resign if the rest of the country and his party members support him. He doesn't need to care about the disapproval of his own people.

I mean what do you mean by naturalization? Make them Pakistanis?

There's a difference between FATA and Karachi. FATA is a tribal area with tribal tradition being law, and militias. Karachi is a metropolitan that in effect runs the country's economy and pays the most taxes to the feds. Federal Government could never f up Karachi when they need it desperately.

We have over-bloated SOEs, state institutions staffed with all types of quota workers and party workers, a over-extended and -- frankly -- abused Karachi (by the center and province -- and I say this as someone born in Punjab), and a clinging to the status-quo that benefits only a few.

I myself am a Punjabi who has lived in Karachi all his life.

I could never understand why Karachi's situation is so bad despite paying most of the taxes, handling most of the trade and being the economic hub. Its now clear to me Karachi is exploited, both by the feds and provincial govt and if the people of Karachi rise up to demand what is theirs, the media and people elsewhere greatly exaggerate it as some revolution.
Why not look to Karachi and Karachiites as fellow Pakistanis who deserve equal treatment instead of them being your wallet to build grand capitals and cities elsewhere?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I myself am a Punjabi who has lived in Karachi all his life.

I could never understand why Karachi's situation is so bad despite paying most of the taxes, handling most of the trade and being the economic hub. Its now clear to me Karachi is exploited, both by the feds and provincial govt and if the people of Karachi rise up to demand what is theirs, the media and people elsewhere greatly exaggerate it as some revolution.
Why not look to Karachi and Karachiites as fellow Pakistanis who deserve equal treatment instead of them being your wallet to build grand capitals and cities elsewhere?

Bro they don't even understand how if Karachi does well, Pakistan does well.

If Karachi can reinvest in itself, its capacity will grow and it can take in more migrants and give those migrants a comfortable lifestyle for generations.

If Karachi can reinvest in itself, it will generate more tax revenue for the rest of the country.

If Karachi can reinvest in itself, businesses in Karachi will grow and will expand to invest in other parts of Pakistan (because that's what happens when businesses grow).

If Karachi can reinvest in itself, less money will go to India, UAE, etc, and more will come to Pakistan.

The issue is that the ones abusing Karachi are, in their heart of hearts, also against Pakistan.

It makes zero sense otherwise to cap your biggest economic asset by the knees and chain it to the ground. None...except when you realize the ones driving it the most are (1) corrupt, (2) benefit from ill-gotten gains, and (3) like to stir divisionary ethnic and provincial politics. And this becomes obvious when you see how PPP treats the rest of Sindh.

The moment you kill provincialism, you devolve power and authority to the hands of locals. In this scenario, you will see Sindhis rise up against PPP (as some districts will finally have the power to throw them out). Likewise, you'll see the right people rise all over Punjab, KP, Baluchistan, etc.

 

[Adecypher]

Anyone except pti

I hope NOT the ones tried in the past...

 

[krash]

Lol nowhere once in the whole thread I blamed "rest of Pakistan" for the crimes committed by Pee Pee Pee

Yes I gave example of Bengalis since they were treated in the same manner Pee Pee Pee is treating Karachiites today. They had genuine grievances which bhutto and the ilk deliberately refused to acknowledge and accept. Just like Pee Pee Pee is doing today with silent support from federal government and establishment

PPP did not come into power until after the separation of East Pakistan. Bengali "genuine grievances" were a lot older than PPP and directed against all of West Pakistan, including the Karachiite dominant bureaucracy at the time. Like I said, you are just another self serving, hate mongering, propaganda peddler who will concoct and twist anything to suit his own ill-educated two-bit agenda and propaganda, including condoning treasonous snakes.

ps: Best educate yourself on 71. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two to help you in your cause as well.

PPP is taking our bikes after deliberately delaying all public transport projects. It is PPP who is responsible for this daku raj in this city

Surely. Not the snakes you still keep supporting openly in your posts after, as your posse member keeps using as a defense, "not voting for them".

Many other members think it is because of your bias and racism. I personally believe it is a mixture of both and much more.

Strawman to Ad hominem. I always take it as a compliment, shows one's helplessness in the argument. Otherwise, you and your posse's (you know, the "many other members" constituting just one dolt whose only defense always is the Zionists inspired "you're racist") opinions and whatever you tell yourself to feel better doesn't really bother me. The caravan goes on and what not.

Karachiites are victim. This is a fact. It is the duty of the state aka provincial government to look after law and order. you tried to shift that blame to victims and we all can see that.

That is your ingrained self-victimhood, born from political objectives, speaking. Karachi is the victim, Karachiites are the victims of PPP and its treacherous politics. Karachi and Karachiites are also the victims of Karachiites such as yourself, who if not victimize Karachi directly then victimize it by supporting and/or hiding the crimes of their own fellow Karachiites and perpetuating their vile regional/ethno-nationalistic political propaganda.

In case you forgot PPP has been in government since 2008 and "the other half" of the problem MQM has been effectively ended since 2016. So one party has been in power for 13+ years while the "other problem" is essentially no more for 5+ years yet year-on-year Karachi gets worse. Suddenly the "other problem" isn't seeming much of a problem because despite their absence Karachi continues to get worse.

A pretty stupid and disingenuous excuse when that party's gangs still operate in the city with impunity and are given political and narrative support openly by members such as @Areesh. Maybe you should follow the discussion better.

But sure go ahead if it helps racists like you to blame Karachiites for their predicament. Almost like blaming a rape victim for being raped.

Well, at least someone's learning from the Israelis. Only that you don't have the audience the Israelis do.

 

[El Sidd]

We have over-bloated SOEs, state institutions staffed with all types of quota workers and party workers, a over-extended and -- frankly -- abused Karachi (by the center and province -- and I say this as someone born in Punjab), and a clinging to the status-quo that benefits only a few.

Government is still hiring and extending retirement age for her employees.

He doesn't need to resign if the rest of the country and his party members support him. He doesn't need to care about the disapproval of his own people

He doesn't.
He needs to keep his financiers happy and approved of him.

I mean what do you mean by naturalization? Make them Pakistanis?

What other options do you have?

There's a difference between FATA and Karachi. FATA is a tribal area with tribal tradition being law, and militias. Karachi is a metropolitan that in effect runs the country's economy and pays the most taxes to the feds. Federal Government could never f up Karachi when they need it desperately.

One can argue the same for Karachi.

Just because they wear Armani or Versace don't make them less tribal.

 

[fitpOsitive]

So you think you can go to your office on your own hard earned bike in absence of a public transport system?


Well think again because the liberal Pee Pee Pee government would take your bikes too

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For my fellow Karachi walas : ager aagy berh ker haq nai cheen sakty tu ya tu mulk chorhdo ya mer jao phir. Koi tumhary haq k liay kisi or se nahi laryga.