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AFPAK Administrative Union an Ultimate Peacemaker?

you are right. Taliban are a very effective and easy Solution. but will the afghan population Agree?

No insurgency can sustain itself unless it has support at the grass root level ! I think the Taliban movement has metamorphed from an uber-religious movement to a freedom struggle with more than a tinge of Pashtoon Nationalism to it because of the alleged continued marginalization of the Pashtoons at the Officiating level !

Butt sab! nice to meet you. toh chiv vari? ce kya chuy nav? do you understand?

Not a word ! :cry:

We're only Kashmiris by ethnicity otherwise by language and culture and everything else that you can think of we're Punjabis !
 
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W'rora, why are you so pissed off with Pashtuns, what's up meri jan? :D

Think, if we weren't there, what would the Indo-Pak region look like today?

1. Mongols
2. Greeks

And..............

The Greeks were actually stopped by the Punjabis or Rajputs (the debate is still going on) and the Mongols by the the Turkik sultans in delhi.

Or am I misunderstanding your post ?
 
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"Union of Afghanistan and Pakistan."

M.Akram Niazi


Union of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Only solution to present problem of Instability in Afghanistan and Pakistan is in the Union of Afghanistan and Pakistan, based on the basics principles of Democracy in which Government should be composed of representatives of all sections of society and regions, No one will be dominant to each other, and that country will be easily governable by Government, In history Durani Empire was composed of all areas in which today Pakistan and Afghanistan are located, During Mughal Empire both Afghanistan and Pakistan were a single country, During initial period of British Empire they were also same country, During British Empire, some vested interest forces kept at distance to both these lands from each other , Due to which borders between these two countries have become hiding place for criminals of both countries and theft automobiles and others stolen assets are stored in this region, this large uncontrollable region is basis of many evils ,

Narcotics are grown in these areas ,and addiction of which is destroying youths and humanity and due to poverty and non development, people are going towards extremism and militancy, Union of both countries will make the single government of this region more responsible in stabilizing the region and in satisfying the nationalistic pride of people and people will be able to serve humanity as other large nations of world are serving the humanity, other wise this region will always remain as a nuisance for world, as this region already has destroyed Soviet Union it may also take down to western world which will be a great blow to development of Science and Technology specially Medical science. Advantages to world.

Control of Terrorism: Instability in this region is causing great damage to humanity, soldiers of USA and NATO are sacrificing their lives just to eliminate Terrorists from these countries, while by unification it will become sole responsibility of the people and government of unified nation to control terrorists and it will be more convenient for that government to administer as there will be unity in chain of command. Control of Extremism: As unified nation will be composed of multiethnic groups such as Punjabies,Sindhies,Baloachs, Pukhtoons,Urdu speakers,Tajiks, Persians and Hazaras and will be composed of multisectarian society such as Sunni and Shiites it will become impossible for any ethnic group or religious sect to find any future in extremism Stabilization of Region: Although now a days in this region there is problem of terrorism but infact from a long time (about 50 years) this region is suffering from instability, reason is that people of this region are finding no hope and future for themselves due to division of this region and interference of large nations such as Soviet Union, USA, China and India but when the people of this region were unified at the time of Durani Empire this region was stable and same was case during Mughal Empire..

As there are three main groups in Asia i.e. Chinese, Hindues and Muslims. Chinese and Hindues are satisfied with their Dominion states of China and India, but as there is no large state of Muslims in Asia while their numerical population is greater than Chinese and Hindues, therefore Muslims are suffering from distress which is causing instability and irritation in common Muslims, therefore by creation of a unified state of Pakistan and Afghanistan a sense of satisfaction and respect with the existence of a national state will be achieved Solution to Economic Problems. At present both countries are burden on other countries and in fact are a barrier in exploring the resources of Central Asia by world. After stabilization it will be useful for not only for Central Asia and World but also for the new unified nation itself Advantages to Pakistan:

It was the vision of Founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-Azam to unify region of West Pakistan with Afghanistan and East Pakistan with Malysia and Indonesia and that is still the need of time. • By unification with Afghanistan, areas which are included in Pakistan will be stabilized, and migration of people from disturbed areas will be stopped, • Law and order situation due to smuggling of weapons from Afghanistan will come to an end. • Similarly illicit drug trade will be minimized. • Whole areas of Pukhtoons speaking population will become unified and which will be helpful for development of culture and language of that group which is now divided in two nations. • Security measures expenses on borders will be minimized which may be used for welfare of people. • Interference of other nations in this region will be stopped. • Due to historical and unique region and having importance for Buddhism and Hindues religion, tourism industry will be flourished and business activity in the region will be increased, Advantages to Afghanistan: • By unification status of Afghanistan as land lock country will come to an end, and Union will increase the freedom of people of Afghanistan for travel and economic activity

• Extremism and terrorism will come to and end, as the people will become more engaged and involved in adjusting themselves in new union. it will increase the utilization of raw products of Afghanistan , • Security and military expenses will be minimized, • Doors of job for people of Afghanistan in Pakistan will opened ,the desire of unification of people of Afghanistan with people of Pakistan will be fulfilled. • Shortage of food products in Afghanistan will be decreased and it will increase the utilization of raw products of Afghanistan in the region. • Due to linkage of central Asia via Afghanistan, will cause extraordinary development in the whole region. From all above points it is clear that unification of Pakistan and Afghanistan will be fruitful for every one and for world at large by each and every angle.

"Union of Afghanistan and Pakistan." : Daniel Pipes
 
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Pakistan Afghanistan union impossible or inevitable?



All efforts made towards disintegration are leading to the realization of the most plausible security and stability alternative :The inevitable union of Pakistan and Afghanistan.They strengthen the invisible forces of trans-psuedo national and cultural identity which are leading those countries towards impending union.

Pakistan's Idea:

'Pakistan' is both a Persian and an Urdu word. It is composed of letters taken from the names of all our Indian Sub-continent homelands; that is, Panjab, Afghanistan (Pashtunistan), Kashmir, Iran, Sindh (including Kach and Kathiawar), Tukharistan, Afghanistan, and Balochistan.

The word was coined by Chauhdry Rehmat Ali.The same man who predicted the union of pakistan and Afghanistan.As such, Chaudhary Rahmat Ali's writings, in addition to those of Iqbal and others were major catalysts for the formation of Pakistan. He oferred "Bang-i-Islam" for a Muslim homeland in the Bengal, and "Usmanistan" for a Muslim homeland in the Deccan. He also suggested "Dinia" as a name for a subcontinent for various religions[5].

Essentially what Rahmat Ali is saying is that the NWFP is a gross distortion because it is the British term for the North western region of their Indian empire that no longer exists. Also, NWFP is not a Frontier as far as the indigenous population, the Pakhtoon, are concerned. “It must be remembered that the Pathans are a great, gifted, and Pan-Islamic people.

This is borne out by History which records that they were the first to accept Islam and lay the foundations of its twelve-century rule in India; that they were the last to stop the fight against the British and the first to resume that fight on the Afghan and Baloch frontiers; and that they are the people one of whom, the writer, however unworthy, was blessed by Allah to create the Ideal of Pakistan. itself and start the fight for the realisation of that Ideal - the Ideal which so inspired all Muslims as to make them join the fight and establish this Fatherland which is the home and heritage of all Paks“.Finally, in his book, Ch. Rahmat Ali advocates a family re-union of our Asian and Indian homelands i.e. Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia.


Divide Afghanistan:

Similalry there have been plans to divide Afghanistan in 4 parts. If the ethnic concept is implemented, practically it would result in the country being divided into four main regions - Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek and Pashtu. This delineation has been incorporated in the Dushanbe Plan, a strategy the US has developed for sending its forces into Afghanistan from the Central Asian republics.[22]

Divide Pakistan:

In ralph peters new map Pakistan was shown as being divided into Balochistan ,Pukhtoonistan ,Sindh and Punjab.people of Pakistan are now feeling themselves threatened. At least after American threat to Bomb Pakistan.

All these efforts of

*Contingency of pakistani nukes.
*balkanization of Pakistan
*occupation of Pakistan.

are increasing sense of insecurity among Pakistanis.

Indian threat to Pakistan:

Pakistan’s deepening involvement in the hoax US war on terrorism against its own citizens further alienates its government from the public. Externally, the arms gap with India is as wide as ever. Furthermore, India’s alliance with Israel make the situation even worse. As early as October 1995, Sandy Gordon predicted that in the 21 st century, “India is poised to emerge… as a far more important and influential power in the Indian Ocean region.The vision of an “Islamic bloc” solidly aligned behind Pakistan have taken off again.

In Taliban times Pakistan had a strategic depth viz a viz India.Northern alliance supported by India went on back foot.But things have changed since then .Now Pakistan is on the back foot.indians ave opened several consulates in Afghanistan.Pakistan hawkish generals are now suggesting that india could Sandwitch Pakistan if Taliban are not supported.

Afghanistans Occupation :

The continued subversion of Afghan people and efforts to undermine the worlds only Muslim nuclear power are leading towards a thinking in both nation that a joint front against US is needed to prevent this subversion.For Taliban .They know that the strategical location in which Afghanistan lies .It can never be safe without Pakistan assisstance.besides it Pakistan is necessary for a stable government in Afghanistan.

Common enemy.

he UN sanctions on Afghanistan, western attitude towards the Taliban and Pakistan, and now the seemingly indefinite occupation of Afghanistan are the main forces that would not try to hurt Pakistan and disintegrate Afghanistan as their objective may be but it may lead to their least expected Union and further a federation with the neighbouring and ancestral Muslim homelands of Central Asia, Iran, etc. Commenting on the issue of pan-Islamic federation, Robert G Wirsing writes:

“This idea has gestated in Pakistani minds that both its vulnerable political geography and its military-demographic-economic weakness relative to India could be compensated for, at least to an extent, by expanding and deepening its ties to the many coreligionist states of the Islamic world… “

The establishment of an Islamic Union which was predicted by Pakistans founding fathers like Iqbal,Chauhdry rehmat ali and now people like Israr Ahmed is becoming the need of the hour.Finally this kind of union in the strategicla land of Khurassan which also holds significance in Islamic prophecies are a nightmare situation for the west.

Pakistan Afghanistan union impossible or inevitable?
 
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will the americans allow such union?? id ont think so @Aeronaut
 
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@Ayush

They didn't approve our WMD program either,but that didn't stop us. If China,Turks,Iranians,Arabs agree, we can resist and defeat US's pressure.Russia can be agreed with by giving them a bone which they have always wanted....a transit corridor.
@Yzd Khalifa

Do you have any thoughts on this?
 
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@Ayush

They didn't approve our WMD program either,but that didn't stop us. If China,Turks,Iranians,Arabs agree, we can resist and defeat US's pressure.Russia can be agreed with by giving them a bone which they have always wanted....a transit corridor.
@Yzd Khalifa

Do you have any thoughts on this?

and what about the afghani people..all i see is pakistan's dream and its benefits in post 80 and 81.. will this convince the afghans..coz if such a union is forged pak people will be the dominant group simply bcoz of population..the politics etc will all be dominated by them..also the pak ppl have high literacy etc.. jinnah created pak for the economic upliftment of the muslims coz he feared that india will be dominated by much more educated hindus and their population..

though this is no hindu-muslim issue differences between the people from both the regions will continue to exist..i personally don't think it is possible.what say??
 
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@Ayush

Obviously its a decision for Afghans to make.
 
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They didn't approve our WMD program either,but that didn't stop us. If China,Turks,Iranians,Arabs agree, we can resist and defeat US's pressure.Russia can be agreed with by giving them a bone which they have always wanted....a transit corridor.
@Yzd Khalifa

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Afghanistan is my ultimate fear if you ask me. It's Pakistan's backyard ,and its Gov't has never been friendly with Pakistan at all, Karazi is an ungrateful SOB, and he ought to be either overthrown as soon as the US withdraws from Afghanistan or step down. At any rate, Afghanistan can't survive on its own, therefore, Pakistan's realpolitik presence is highly predictable in the near future, and may also reached to a fully official unity between both states. Do I think it's possible? Yes, both people are culturally and spiritually related to one another, and mind you that Afghanistan doesn't have a mature army to maintain law and order. What seems to be more important that the unity itself is that Pakistan will be unconditionally supported by her friends and allies in the region such as China, and KSA. Our point of view is that we no longer wish to see Afghanistan to be a safe heaven for terrorists as what it used to be in the past. All what Pakistan must do is to make sure that the Arab Afghan are exterminated for the sake of the stability of both countries as well as to reduce the US influence in the region. If and only if, Taliban is willing to denounce terror ,and guarantees that there will no longer be Bin laden-like weirdo or Arab Afghan presence ,then I'm positively sure that such unity will come to reality as soon as possible, either on a confederal level with Pakistan or else.

I'm not worried about India's threat at all, I believe India won't be bidding on a dead horse, because the horse is pronounced dead ages ago, and China is now investing in Afghanistan which put them in higher position.

Also, enemies states to KSA must make sure that Afghanistan will be an inti-Iran from the day one NATO leaves.
 
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@Ayush

They didn't approve our WMD program either,but that didn't stop us. If China,Turks,Iranians,Arabs agree, we can resist and defeat US's pressure.Russia can be agreed with by giving them a bone which they have always wanted....a transit corridor.
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Afghanistan is too much of a mess to handle and will always remain that way. And we have our own issues to work out before thinking about a union.
Even if the union comes about, what about the defence of such a large area? Do we have the funds or the capacity for that?

The two bolded names should never be considered for any Pakistani matter. Iran's a bit hyper and the "brotherly nations" are not so brotherly anymore.
 
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Afghanistan is too much of a mess to handle and will always remain that way. And we have our own issues to work out before thinking about a union.
Even if the union comes about, what about the defence of such a large area? Do we have the funds or the capacity for that?

The two bolded names should never be considered for any Pakistani matter. Iran's a bit hyper and the "brotherly nations" are not so brotherly anymore.

A step of this magnitide cannot be taken without regional support.
 
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A step of this magnitide cannot be taken without regional support.

True. But the problem is we have two opposing forces in close proximity; Iran and KSA.
Are we ready to handle the resulting chaos?


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Also, enemies states to KSA must make sure that Afghanistan will be an inti-Iran from the day one NATO leaves.

This is exactly what Iran will try to prevent by all means. Pakistan will be looking at more Sunni-Shia violence. KSA's support and Iran's oppostion will turn's Pakistan's streets into war-zones.


That's why I am against any unity with Afghanistan. Btw, I can't forget the kind words they like to call us either. Let them enjoy whatever's left of that place. And keep it awa from us.

PS: No offence intended to anyone, I just feel Pakistan has enough problems without extending ourselves further. Let's get back on track and others will want to work with us themselves.
 
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Afghanistan is too much of a mess to handle and will always remain that way. And we have our own issues to work out before thinking about a union.
Even if the union comes about, what about the defence of such a large area? Do we have the funds or the capacity for that?

The two bolded names should never be considered for any Pakistani matter. Iran's a bit hyper and the "brotherly nations" are not so brotherly anymore.

I don't understand your take on the two brotherly nations :what: ,but sorry, Pakistan's safety is a red-line in the holy land sand.
 
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