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Afghans in Pakistan: Their home and heart belong here

There will likely be riots in Sindh/karachi and balochistan if GoP decide to give CNIC to every afghnai refugee. Only huge province like punjab can absorb them, in sindh/balochistan afghani numbers will make huge difference. Especially Balochistan who have only 10 million people.
There is no significant presence of Afghan refugees in Punjab, mostly Pakistani Pashtuns there are mistaken as "Afghanis". Its KPK which is hosting most of the Afghan refugees since 80s.

In Karachi, only 50 thousands out of 6 million Pashtuns , are reported as Afghan refugees....in that city, anti-pashtun riots, without any distinction of nationality, are already going on since 80s. But i must say, Balochs would strongly react to it in Quetta.....Pashtun nationalists of Balochistan and Baloch nationalists always argue about this issue and is the cause of friction between two communities. To solve this, a new province out Balochistan should be carved out , comprising of Pashtun districts so that this politics is not played and focus is on real issues.
 
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There is no significant presence of Afghan refugees in Punjab, mostly Pakistani Pashtuns there are mistaken as "Afghanis". Its KPK which is hosting most of the Afghan refugees since 80s.

In Karachi, only 50 thousands out of 6 million Pashtuns , are reported as Afghan refugees....in that city, anti-pashtun riots, without any distinction of nationality, are already going on since 80s. But i must say, Balochs would strongly react to it in Quetta.....Pashtun nationalists of Balochistan and Baloch nationalists always argue about this issue and is the cause of friction between two communities. To solve this, a new province out Balochistan should be carved out , comprising of Pashtun districts so that this politics is not played and focus is on real issues.
On the topic, my observation with the resident Afghans has been that the so called "Zahir Shah" category(supportive of the deposed king) have greater animosity for Pakistan as compared to those who were generally common folk from villages or small towns. I have noticed on multiple occasions the term "Zahir Shah" Afghans being used, perhaps you can elaborate.
 
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There is no significant presence of Afghan refugees in Punjab, mostly Pakistani Pashtuns there are mistaken as "Afghanis". Its KPK which is hosting most of the Afghan refugees since 80s.

In Karachi, only 50 thousands out of 6 million Pashtuns , are reported as Afghan refugees....in that city, anti-pashtun riots, without any distinction of nationality, are already going on since 80s. But i must say, Balochs would strongly react to it in Quetta.....Pashtun nationalists of Balochistan and Baloch nationalists always argue about this issue and is the cause of friction between two communities. To solve this, a new province out Balochistan should be carved out , comprising of Pashtun districts so that this politics is not played and focus is on real issues.


To what extent is the ethnic troubles in Karachi caused by the MQM's fear that the Pashtun might threaten their stanglehold over the city since 1950 and is there any chance that Pashtun could end up dominating the city through increase in numbers* or negating MQM's dominance through numbers?

*Either by intra country migration or higher birth rates.
 
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To what extent is the ethnic troubles in Karachi caused by the MQM's fear that the Pashtun might threaten their stanglehold over the city since 1950 and is there any chance that Pashtun could end up dominating the city through increase in numbers* or negating MQM's dominance through numbers?

*Either by intra country migration or higher birth rates.
By MQM you refer to an ethnicity or a party? or do you not distinguish at all?
 
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By MQM you refer to an ethnicity or a party? or do you not distinguish at all?

Party. Although in reality there would be certain overlap. I expect an average Pashtun to have differant voting habits with referance to say parties like PTI etc
 
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On the topic, my observation with the resident Afghans has been that the so called "Zahir Shah" category(supportive of the deposed king) have greater animosity for Pakistan as compared to those who were generally common folk from villages or small towns. I have noticed on multiple occasions the term "Zahir Shah" Afghans being used, perhaps you can elaborate.
Perhaps it means Urban Afghans. About the animosity of Afghan refugees towards Pakistan, i have not seen it.....or may be they simply they dont show it in Pakistan. Usually they mind their own business and wont talk on local issues let alone national ones. More concerned about stomach and Rotti.

To what extent is the ethnic troubles in Karachi caused by the MQM's fear that the Pashtun might threaten their stanglehold over the city since 1950 and is there any chance that Pashtun could end up dominating the city through increase in numbers* or negating MQM's dominance through numbers?

*Either by intra country migration or higher birth rates.
I think a big chunk of Pashtuns there do not possess domiciles of Karachi. Many of them are economic migrants with domiciles from KPK, FATA and Balochistan.........so in a way they are burden on Sindh province, perhaps one of the reason for hostility towards them. They mostly live in city outskirts, in slum type localities , do blue collar jobs mostly......so i doubt they can negate power, position and influence of Urduspeakers in the city.
 
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I think a big chunk of Pashtuns there do not possess domiciles of Karachi. Many of them are economic migrants with domiciles from KPK, FATA and Balochistan.........so in a way they are burden on Sindh province, perhaps one of the reason for hostility towards them. They mostly live in city outskirts, in slum type localities , do blue collar jobs mostly......so i doubt they can negate power, position and influence of Urduspeakers in the city.

Well frankly almost all of Karachi is "migrant" irrespective of the causative factors. If you look at the "indigenous" population it must be tiny. I though if the live in Karachi they would have right to vote as basic right in a democratic society. I live in UK and if I move to another part I certainly don't lose my right to vote. My franchise is carried with me and all I need to do is register my presence in te area where I move. I suppose this being Pakistan we still have not arrived at some basics of democracy.

And I can't for life of me think why they should be "burden" on anybody least of all Sindh unless the government is giving them some welfare benefits which I doubt.
 
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Party. Although in reality there would be certain overlap. I expect an average Pashtun to have differant voting habits with referance to say parties like PTI etc
Considering that the MQM did not exist until the 80's.. and before that the ethnicity associated with MQM was focused on JI.

The timeline you mention, 1950's... had very little ethnic violence and there was no "stranglehold" as is being insinuated. Rather all ethnicities existed peacefully. The issues began with the elections between Ayub Khan and Fatima Jinnah, the need to negate the votebank for her was fixed by Gohar Ayub having paid voters trucked in.. generally of the fairly uncouth class from the NW. Considering Karachi was the capital then, every government officer from all walks and ethnicities was posted there.

So I am struggling to see how some the "MQM" which did not begin till much after the APMSO came into being would have a stranglehold over the city of Karachi?

Moreover, despite Gohar Ayub's plan to rig the elections.. many of these bus voters returned to their homes leaving a percentage that either set up small businesses or participated alongside the criminal element from the other ethnicities.Those that did set up businesses, just as those from Punjab and other rural areas eventually kept calling in people from their area to assist and grow. That is natural resettling that was never disputed except by the Sindhi Nationalist rising under Bhutto's dual policies.
If any ethnic conflict did occur, it happened due to Bhutto in the early 70's. Against which both the Pashtuns and the other ethnicities voted against under JI's banner and protested against in a fairly large rally carried out in the Mausoleums park.

So if anything. there was no conflict of votebank all the way till the ethnic clashes after the bus incident catalyst.

Which brings the question of how much of the votebank is disturbed? The votebank for Karachi has been contested by four main parties. The ANP which draws only Pashtun, the PPP which is mostly Sindhi but with other elements under Bhutto's romance thrown in, the MQM and the Jamaat parties(which draw elements from every ethnicity).

As to the loss of votebank due to voter disparity, there is lesser threat simply due to the voting laws that make it rather difficult for anyone not showing their domain as Karachi to vote there. That has given the usual home field advantage to the MQM and PPP for quite a while leaving aside the settled Pashtun Kachi abadis(lasting from the 50's). Infact, if anyone has suffered vote loss it was the ANP and that to the Jamaat-e-Islami whcih has already competes against the ANP in KP. The threat to MQM's votebank comes from PTI, and from the JI.. to the extent that both the ANP and MQM ground workers routinely cooperate against the JI. In the last election I was witness to a game of "pakran pakrai" with MQM and ANP workers chasing blockading the streets leading to a polling booth for JI workers.

Which brings us to the actual question on the topic regarding Afghans. As I mentioned to @Samandri , the antagonism leadership per-se in Afghanis is comprised in my view of these "King" Afghanis; whose government was hostile to Pakistan prior to the invasion. However, there was certain discrimination shown against the poor Afghan refugees and in general too; those who had money were able to pay off officials and establish business and live a semblance of life..but those that cannot are essentially third generations now living in the same place as their grandparents came to.
Due to this desperation in poverty, the Afghan element has a higher degree of involvement in criminal activities and especially in the drug business due to their ability to get the Afghan produce brought over.
There is little ethnic identity or otherwise involved in most settled (Pakistani)Pashtuns in Karachi or any other major cities for the Afghans and most of them generally hate them. A lot of it has to do with the bad repute that the Pashtun's perceive the Afghan criminal element has brought to them.

In the end, the situation with the Afghans is one of Pakistan's(or rather Pakistani's) own creation. The camps and their occupants were essentially left on their own. Granted, Pakistan did not possess the economy to sustain any of these people on subsidies but efforts should have been made to harness at least a useful percentage of the manpower. Yet, there are much more complex issues that go into the threat that this manpower posed to the already existing large pool of unemployed and hence their ire for the Afghan.

What is clear however, is that the Afghan refugee problem.. and that of many of Pakistan's other problems.. are beyond the pettiness of ethnicity assumed or assigned to them; and most(if not all) are connected to the need to the now ironic term of "Roti, Kapra aur Makaan".
 
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Well frankly almost all of Karachi is "migrant" irrespective of the causative factors. If you look at the "indigenous" population it must be tiny. I though if the live in Karachi they would have right to vote as basic right in a democratic society. I live in UK and if I move to another part I certainly don't lose my right to vote. My franchise is carried with me and all I need to do is register my presence in te area where I move. I suppose this being Pakistan we still have not arrived at some basics of democracy.

And I can't for life of me think why they should be "burden" on anybody least of all Sindh unless the government is giving them some welfare benefits which I doubt.
About votes, if i am not wrong one can register his vote where he reside... I havent register my vote in Pehswer where i reside and go to my home town to cast the vote.

I saw an interview of Zardari in which he was calling them burden on Sindh as the province do not get increase in budget, which is population based, from these arrivals from North-west.

In Peshawar and bazaars of other cities of KPK, many local traders think in same manner about Afghans even if they are earning from hard work. A member from Nowshera here, @Dalit, was telling me that Afghan refugees are eating our resources and we would kick them out......even if it means use of force and violence
 
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Perhaps it means Urban Afghans. About the animosity of Afghan refugees towards Pakistan, i have not seen it.....or may be they simply they dont show it in Pakistan. Usually they mind their own business and wont talk on local issues let alone national ones. More concerned about stomach and Rotti..

I cant say urban for sure. Because even in those days the Urban Afghan was split into supporters and those that did not. It has to do with the various elite of Afghanistan I believe who were otherwise prosperous under the King. How that animosity built up(of which I am sure seeing the refugee camps in the same condition for 40 years had a large role) from then to now is something that should be looked into if Pakistan is serious in settling its border with Afghanistan.
 
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There will likely be riots in Sindh/karachi and balochistan if GoP decide to give CNIC to every afghnai refugee. Only huge province like punjab can absorb them, in sindh/balochistan afghani numbers will make huge difference. Especially Balochistan who have only 10 million people.
no punjabis should not let this happen
no afghanis.
any body here feeling pain for them they should take them to his house atleast one family
Punjab is open for people from other parts of Pakistan but not for afghanis.
 
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I cant say urban for sure. Because even in those days the Urban Afghan was split into supporters and those that did not. It has to do with the various elite of Afghanistan I believe who were otherwise prosperous under the King. How that animosity built up(of which I am sure seeing the refugee camps in the same condition for 40 years had a large role) from then to now is something that should be looked into if Pakistan is serious in settling its border with Afghanistan.
Daud Khan was more aggressive than Zahir Shah about Durand line issue. The Afghan commies were even more aggressive and most of these were from urban centers. One is Durrani elites, another would be elites from Ghilzais like Ahmadzais , Tarakis etc.

It was building up since 1947, in my opinion.

Punjab is open for people from other parts of Pakistan but not for afghanis.
Is it open for IDPs?. I am told there could be suspected terrorists among IDPs.
 
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Only developed countries with good law and order system can host immigrants in large numbers.

Pakistan is wild west and these morons have been giving shelter to TTP fighters, abductions and crime whose proceedings also go to TTP. I am not saying all of them are like this but there is a % and whatever that figure may be its too high.

These acts are unforgivable. Pakistan lost more than 50,000 people. This is no small matter. For Afghans like @Samandri its some form of "payback" which is a bizarre mindset. Its not a good fit for the country at all and I don't care how many are good because trust has been broken.

Eject immediately and serve some justice to these thankless terrorist sympathizers.
 
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There is no significant presence of Afghan refugees in Punjab, mostly Pakistani Pashtuns there are mistaken as "Afghanis". Its KPK which is hosting most of the Afghan refugees since 80s.

In Karachi, only 50 thousands out of 6 million Pashtuns , are reported as Afghan refugees....in that city, anti-pashtun riots, without any distinction of nationality, are already going on since 80s. But i must say, Balochs would strongly react to it in Quetta.....Pashtun nationalists of Balochistan and Baloch nationalists always argue about this issue and is the cause of friction between two communities. To solve this, a new province out Balochistan should be carved out , comprising of Pashtun districts so that this politics is not played and focus is on real issues.

What do you know about punjab. I know from first hand lots of afghanis now are claiming to be Pakistani pashtuns to get CNIC. Exemple of 2 afghani refugees. In recent crack downs they were asked to provide proof of their Pakistaniat which basically mean having CNIC. They lied and said their ancestors moved from Afghanistan in early 50's so are punjabi as anyone else, help when one speak native tongue. Hard to believe someone so old but without CNIC. One was was able to provide some bogus proof of his grand father still being alive in Afghanistan. I don't know what happened to other, was either jailed or deported. Likely released some time later.

But its tricky situation, I think maybe only refugee in camps will move back if at all. And we all know they are minorty overall among afghanis in Pakistan. Officially there are only 1 million or so refugees. Other will only move back if having CNIC become important to move around and do business. In that case those without CNIC will probably move back as well.

Another possibility I see is those who are here for decades will probably get CNIC but after certain point it will not become possible to get CNIC for anyone else. Who knows, only few thousands have gone back despite so called crack down which is blown out of proportion on PDF.
 
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What do you know about punjab. I know from first hand lots of afghanis now are claiming to be Pakistani pashtuns to get CNIC. Exemple of 2 afghani refugees. In recent crack downs they were asked to provide proof of their Pakistaniat which basically mean having CNIC. They lied and said their ancestors moved from Afghanistan in early 50's so are punjabi as anyone else, help when one speak native tongue. Hard to believe someone so old but without CNIC. One was was able to provide some bogus proof of his grand father still being alive in Afghanistan. I don't know what happened to other, was either jailed or deported. Likely released some time later.

But its tricky situation, I think maybe only refugee in camps will move back if at all. And we all know they are minorty overall among afghanis in Pakistan. Officially there are only 1 million or so refugees. Other will only move back if having CNIC become important to move around and do business. In that case those without CNIC will probably move back as well.

Another possibility I see is those who are here for decades will probably get CNIC but after certain point it will not become possible to get CNIC for anyone else. Who knows, only few thousands have gone back despite so called crack down which is blown out of proportion on PDF.
The ones with fake CNIC, are in tens of thousands , not lacs.


Surprised to see you people can distinguish between Afghan national and Pakistani Pashtun from FATA...........Islamabad police, CDA and local Islamabadis couldnt tell apart Pakistani Pakhtuns from Afghan refugees in Kachchi abaadi of I-sector.
 
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