Afghanistan: Defeated America & Pakistan

[Patriot]

Defated US in Afghanistan means that Pakistani TTP will get inspiration from their Jihadi brothers acrros the border and then they will strike Pakistan very heavily because they will think if Taliban can defeat America then why we cant defeat Pakistan Army.So all in all it will be one big ******* mess for us.It is in our interest to have a stabilized Afghanistan without Jihadis.The violance in Pakistan is just peanuts but if god forbid Taliban come back into power in Afghanistan Pakistan will be in deep ****.Anyone who think a Jihadi government is in Pakistan favor is short sighted.Come on do you want repeat the 80's and 90's mistakes again?

 

[Comet]

Defated US in Afghanistan means that Pakistani TTP will get inspiration from their Jihadi brothers acrros the border and then they will strike Pakistan very heavily because they will think if Taliban can defeat America then why we cant defeat Pakistan Army.So all in all it will be one big ******* mess for us.It is in our interest to have a stabilized Afghanistan without Jihadis.The violance in Pakistan is just peanuts but if god forbid Taliban come back into power in Afghanistan Pakistan will be in deep ****.Anyone who think a Jihadi government is in Pakistan favor is short sighted.Come on do you want repeat the 80's and 90's mistakes again?

Defated US in Afghanistan means Zero or very little Indian Influence on TTP.

 

[Awesome]

You sound very optimistic with the current scene. Are you confident that now Pakistan and the USA will win this war on their own terms?

My take is a little different: It is the US that wants this war to linger on, and use this long time as an excuse to install numerous military bases first in Afghanistan, and then in Pakistan (signs: influx of Blackwater/Xe and enlargement of the embassy), so as to have complete control on the oil that flows from the Caspian. This will provide the US some strong grounds to dictate its own rate of rent when using Afghanistan and Pakistan's land to transport oil. It matters, because capturing the oil fields in the Caspian is not as difficult as is managing and maintaining unhindered flow to the Arabian Sea.

Would've been a plausible explanation if the troop withdrawal by 2011 had not been announced.

No oil can flow through Afghanistan till there is war going on over there. The Taliban can drag on the war much longer than the US can sustain it. I'm not optimistic, from the US side, but hopefully our war will be over till 2011 and the US can keep them busy till then. We will not be taking on the Taliban on their home turf and would like to ensure neither do they come looking for us. Perhaps support a third group (non-India aligned, non-Taliban) in Afghanistan that can keep the Taliban busy after the Americans are gone.

It would suck for the Afghanis, being in perpetual civil war, but if the alternative is that Pakistanis have to be bombed, then I got no problems with it.

It should also be noteworthy that after the Americans leave, we'll have no reason to continue our transit routes for India. So if India is sneaky weapons through them that should spell an end for the current non Pashtun Afghani government.

 

[Developereo]

American exit from Afghanistan (in defeat or victory) is vital for Pakistan's security. The Americans have installed a pro-India puppet regime in Afghanstan which, along with RAW, funds and trains TTP and BLA to cause trouble in Pakistan.

We will have a much easier time defeating the TTP once their Indian support from Afghanistan dries up, and that will not happen as long as the Americans keep sheltering Indian involvement there.

If the Americans leave without defeating the Taliban, the challenge for Pakistan would be to make sure the Afghan Taliban renounce extremism. If we don't do that, it will become a headache for us once again. It will also push India and Iran together. Basically, a repeat of the 90s. We cannot afford that again.

(ex: China is Pakistan's friend... NO! Chinese have interest in the region, and need to achieve something, that's all).

All politics is based on self-interest. Do you think the West gives a damn about India? They are only grooming you to counter China. Don't read anything more into it.

All these years, how much and how often has Pakistan invested in Afghanistan's infrastructure? A country like India, no matter what its objectives, has spent more on infrastructure in Afghanistan, than has Pakistan.

Pakistan has invested close to $500 million in Afghanistan. India, with a 7x larger economy has only invested $1.2 billion. Comparatively speaking, India has been extremely stingy in helping Afghanistan.

Do you think Afghans do not see that?

I should hope so, given India's relatively meager contribution to their welfare.

May be then, with its newly found importance, Pakistan may also have some leverage over India on border/Kashmir issues.

Pakistan doesn't need to find any new importance. Pakistan is already in a pivotal location in the region, far more strategically placed than India. It is only the incompetence of Pakistani leaders which has not exploited this strategic placement more to Pakistan's benefit.

If R&AW is so good that it is turning Pakistan into a battlefield, then I suppose it deserves more respect than that.

Actually, RAW is pathetically incompetent. They couldn't even train LTTE well enough to destabilize Sri Lanka. And India has failed spectacularly in Afghanistan in the past, which is why the pro-Pakistan Taliban defeated the pro-Indian Northern Alliance.

Defated US in Afghanistan means Zero or very little Indian Influence on TTP.

Exactly!
The day the US leaves Afghanistan is the day RAW gets their eviction notice from Afghanistan.

 

[evolutionist]

If America & Pakistan are defeated in Afghanistan what is there left for Taliban to celebrate. No infrastructure, no schools, no development, no law & order. They will have poverty, starvation, no international trade. May be just opium and drug trade with most of the population addicted to it.

 

[FreekiN]

If America & Pakistan are defeated in Afghanistan what is there left for Taliban to celebrate. No infrastructure, no schools, no development, no law & order. They will have poverty, starvation, no international trade. May be just opium and drug trade with most of the population addicted to it.

That's all they wanted. LOL

 

[Bushy]

If America & Pakistan are defeated in Afghanistan what is there left for Taliban to celebrate. No infrastructure, no schools, no development, no law & order. They will have poverty, starvation, no international trade. May be just opium and drug trade with most of the population addicted to it.

Do you seriously think they (Taliban) care about all the anomalies you just mentioned?

When they (Taliban) were in power, the same anomalies were way worse than they are now, they almost had their deal with Rumsfeld and Karazai (UNOCAL) when they were in power. The Americans didn't like it (the deal), and waged a war.

People in this forum think a Trillion dollars is too much for the Americans to spend for such a cause, trust me that is simply laughable.

 

[Bushy]

That's all they wanted. LOL

Yes FreeKiN, some times you do talk sense. When the general population is under some kind of influence (opium, heroine, extremism of religion), then it becomes very easy to not only win over them but also to motivate them for any certain cause.

 

[Bushy]

.

I would appreciate it greatly if you could keep your frustrations away while replying to me.


Thank you.

 

[Developereo]

I would appreciate it greatly if you could keep your frustrations away while replying to me.


Thank you.

So, no rebuttal them , eh?

I rebuffed your attack on the Pakistan-China relationship by pointing out that all international politics, including India's, is the same.

I refuted your silly nonsense about India helping Afghanistan more than Pakistan.

And I corrected your delusions regarding India's role in the region.

 

[Bushy]

So, no rebuttal them , eh?

I rebuffed your attack on the Pakistan-China relationship by pointing out that all international politics, including India's, is the same.

I refuted your silly nonsense about India helping Afghanistan more than Pakistan.

And I corrected your delusions regarding India's role in the region.

Laugh and be happy. Let me know when you get sober and I will show you how blind you have been.

 

[Ghargasht]

Interesting analyze but in my opinion very superficial. I will go throw and point out why.

Hello guys,

I want to engage you for your opinion if defeated America is in the favor of Pakistan or not. In my opinion, America and NATO's forthcoming defeat is beneficial to the country in many ways.

1 - With America being lost and gone, we will have pre 9/11 status of Afghanistan back which was in the favor of Pakistan every way.

Not really, 9/11 changed the world, today its deferent environment what will happen if US leaves it will boast the moral of Jahadist, they will claim they have defeated yet another super power. What is the grantee they will NOT try to impose their will on a much weaker Pakistani state?

2 - Indian activities and elements will be cleansed, or atleast cleansed from the areas that concern Pakistan the most.

In short term it will, but in long term any Pakhtun centric government in Afghanistan will look at India as strategic partner, that is if nationalism takes a hold in Taliban.

3 - Afghanistan will remain a threat to Americans and inspite of their escape from it, they will depend heavily on Pakistan for their matters concerning Afghanistan.

You mean Taliban run Afghanistan, yes it will not only to America but the whole world and region, including China, Russia, Iran and India. The question is what will these countries do in response to this threat? will they set idyll and allow Taliban take over? Once the America leaves the nationalist forces will not stay with Taliban, what will these nationalist Pashtons do if they gain the support of India, Russia and Iran?

4 - Our FATA and Baluchistan issues will resolve a lot sooner than they will do now. Terrorist hideouts will be eliminated and their supplies will be cut a great deal.

You need to realize that no gov can touch a nation unless her people allows it. You might call the nationalist in Balochistan as terrorist and what not but the fact is majority of Baloch sees them as freedom fighters. In 60+ years 3 times Balochs have rebelled, this should tell you that there are grievances and if you want to resolve these issues then you MUST address these grievances.

5 - In terms of Business and infrastructure, Pakistan will have a lot to offer to Afghans and our economy and trade will boost.

Most Afghans hates Taliban as much as most Pakistanis do. No sane person would want to live under Taliban rule. Now by imposing Taliban on Afghanistan, pakistani gov will gain the aversion of afghan people. In term of economy taliban have no plan or agenda, infect I’m sure they don't even know what economy is. Before 9/11 trade between Afghanistan and Pakistan was under $100 million. In 2008 the trade or should I say the Pakistan export to Afghanistan for the trade is very asymmetric, consisting for the most part by imports from Pakistan, as compared to very little formal Afghan exports has raise over $1 billion.

6 - With peace on Westen Borders, we could focus our energies on the eastern borders to counter India.

There will not be peace on western border, Taliban don't know peace, and even if we accept that Taliban enjoy Pakhtun majority support what is the grantee the Pakhtun of FATA or NFWP won't demand the same Islamic Sharia? For even the pro-pakistan Pakistani Taliban have their allegiance to Mullah Omar.

7 - American influence from the region will get reduced and even for that sake, they will depend more on Pakistan/India and we will have better control of them than now.

In my opinion, this American defeat is more favorable to the country than its presence. I am unable to find 1 good reason to see America being successful in Afghanistan. What do you guys say?

I don't think America will close their eyes on the threat to their country and peoples safety. Unlike our politician the American politician do care for life and safety of their people.
Over all, what we need to understand is Afghan nationalism is actually Pakhtun nationalism, it's Afghan Pakhtun that demands creation of Pakhtunistan not the Afghan Persian. What is the grantee ones Pakhtun Taliban takes over Kabul and establishes their hold they will not demand Pakhutnistan? Or all Pakistan for ideologically they don’t see any border between Muslim.

 

[Ghargasht]

I say we make a gigantic wall made of steel so we dont even have to look at them. :]

Anyways, they dont like us at all. They think we are biased towards them, not only through politics and military support but through history and teachings.

You can go on youtube and see for yourselves why the average Afghani doesn't trust us.

EDIT: If they [afghans] dont want to work with us, then fine. Don't. Keep your jihad and teachings out. Please. For our innocent civilians sake.

From my interaction with Afghans which are a lot of them here in DC, they think it was us Pakistanis that give them Jahadi teaching and Taliban. They mention that almost all Taliban were "educated" in Pakistani Madrassa. Some of the higher ups of taliban did not even speak Afghan national languages of Dari or Pashto. Even today Karzia directly and indirectly accuses our gov for keeping Taliban alive, he even accuses our gov of hiding the Taliban leaders in Pakistan.

As for as hatred, I think the hatred is cultural, if you read Babur E Namah memoirs of Zāhir ud-Dīn Mohammad Bābur, founder of the Mughal Empire he writes the fallowing about Hindustan--which included pakistan Punjab and Sind.

"Hindustan is a country that has few pleasures to recommend it. The people are not handsome. They have no idea of the charms of friendly society, of frankly mixing together, or of familiar intercourse. They have no genius, no comprehension of mind, no politeness of manner, no kindness of fellow-feeling, no ingenuity or mechanical invention in planning or executing their handicraft works, no skill or knowledge in design or architecture; they have no horses, no good flesh, no grapes or musk melons, no good fruits, no ice or cold water, no good food or bread in their bazaars, no baths or colleges, no candles no torches, not a candlestick"


So yes the centeral Asian people and South Asian people are not found of each other but what bound us togather is Islam.

 

[kamcos]

If this is what common Pakistani thinks no wonder you are hated so much in afghanistan these days. And you talk about Indian Imperialism.

What bout Pakistan and India being one historically.

Ya the same, Afghanistan +Pakistan + India
Its right triangle. Through Afghanistan you can connect to Iran and central Asia.
It historical connected. Any division will bring harm to the peace of the region. As todays.
Regards

 

[bigmoneymaker]

what a great place afghanistan where is the burial ground of many great empires....witness their crazy expansion at peak and downfall in muddy warfare....