Afghanistan: Defeated America & Pakistan

[SparklingCrescent]

if America leaves, it will be worse for Pakistan. As you know, taliban only like fighting America and its allies, we as Pakistanis need to completely stop this war right now, and make distance from U.S.. we dont need U.S its only making problems.... U.S has been pressuring us, and its a sad thing that we lose our young soldiers because of them.. we are being used, we see it on news and everywhere U.S demanding us do this and that.. actually there is news that jus came out, U.S teling pakistan to pressurise Afghhan Taliban link: http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...pakistan-must-pressurise-afghan-taliban-qs-09 and http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=26055.. and if we continue fighting till U.S withdraws and leaves, the taliban wont, pretty much America runs away and leaves this mess to us...... I say lets say "stop" to this war, and lets talk peace... weve already cleared swat, south waziristan is already in gudd conditions, and now peshawar is getting dangerous... before this problem spreads into other major cities, and get worse in peshawar we shud stop, no more allieng with U.S and leave America do what it wants and peace with the pashtoons and especially Hakimullah Mehsud... most importently, we shud help ANP relations with the taliban because theyve sacrafised a lot more than any party in pakistan in this war....... Please, I know i may sound anti Pakistan and pro taliban, but im nott, this is only my opinion...

 

[Watani]

@Graphican
I have been around here since a while now but thanks again wrora.

The entire world knows what American government is about and since they can harm their own people through 9/11, then they can cause hundreds of 9/11's in Afghanistan or/and either Pakistan. But the reason why I mention Pashtuns in particular is because all non-Pashtun Afghans have recognized colonisation and have chosen NATO over Taliban, but since Pashtuns have chosen it the other way round they have got all the reason to wonder why only them are getting killed by NATO-raid? It's also questionable asking why only Pashtun journalists and mayors get killed and Taliban gets the blame while Taliban do not even reside in that particular area? And even in provinces like Kandahar and Paktia where huge number of Tajiks reside as well, it just makes us (Pashtuns) wonder why once again only Pashtuns get killed?

NWFP was Pashtuns' only mutual support and our second home, but now even NWFP is in trouble and many people blame Afghans for it's situation. But what many don't know that Pashtuns of Afghanistan won't even dream of killing their fellow Pashtun brothers. So to say in other words, Pashtuns on both sides are very divided now and once again Pashtuns feel enemies (whoever they are) have played their game and succeeded. And about Afghan Taliban, Pakistani government's support to USA invasion of Afghanistan caused death of thousands of Taliban, rape of their women, abduction of their children, and poverty and homelessness of majority Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan. And all that was done by non-Pashtun Afghans who were supported by USA, while Pashtuns of Afghanistan trusted Pakistan from depth of their heart but Pakistani government didn't do anything to make those vicious acts stop.

But we can't take Pakistani people granted for whatever their government is doing or has done because whenever we see how many Pakistani's lose their lives today, it makes us as much hurt as when our fellow Afghans lose lives. We Pashtuns have been very hospitable and welcoming to everyone but that very same thing is backfiring on us. That's why it's actually good that Pakistani Pashtuns don't care about all Afghans any more, but I just hope they don't make Afghan Pashtuns stand on the very same line because we are 100% on side of truth and peace.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

@Graphican
I have been around here since a while now but thanks again wrora.

The entire world knows what American government is about and since they can harm their own people through 9/11, then they can cause hundreds of 9/11's in Afghanistan or/and either Pakistan. But the reason why I mention Pashtuns in particular is because all non-Pashtun Afghans have recognized colonisation and have chosen NATO over Taliban, but since Pashtuns have chosen it the other way round they have got all the reason to wonder why only them are getting killed by NATO-raid? It's also questionable asking why only Pashtun journalists and mayors get killed and Taliban gets the blame while Taliban do not even reside in that particular area? And even in provinces like Kandahar and Paktia where huge number of Tajiks reside as well, it just makes us (Pashtuns) wonder why once again only Pashtuns get killed?

NWFP was Pashtuns' only mutual support and our second home, but now even NWFP is in trouble and many people blame Afghans for it's situation. But what many don't know that Pashtuns of Afghanistan won't even dream of killing their fellow Pashtun brothers. So to say in other words, Pashtuns on both sides are very divided now and once again Pashtuns feel enemies (whoever they are) have played their game and succeeded. And about Afghan Taliban, Pakistani government's support to USA invasion of Afghanistan caused death of thousands of Taliban, rape of their women, abduction of their children, and poverty and homelessness of majority Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan. And all that was done by non-Pashtun Afghans who were supported by USA, while Pashtuns of Afghanistan trusted Pakistan from depth of their heart but Pakistani government didn't do anything to make those vicious acts stop.

But we can't take Pakistani people granted for whatever their government is doing or has done because whenever we see how many Pakistani's lose their lives today, it makes us as much hurt as when our fellow Afghans lose lives. We Pashtuns have been very hospitable and welcoming to everyone but that very same thing is backfiring on us. That's why it's actually good that Pakistani Pashtuns don't care about all Afghans any more, but I just hope they don't make Afghan Pashtuns stand on the very same line because we are 100% on side of truth and peace.

are u sayin we Pakistani Pashtuns are different than u guys and we dont caer bout Afghan Pahtun???? u totally got urself wrong buddy... all Pashtuns in Swat and Waziristan pretty much dont belong to Pakistan, we are Afghanis.. I myself am from Swat Pakistan, none of my family think they are 100% Pakistani, theyr fathers and grandfathers were all from Afghan and they believe they themselves are from Afghan too... but that dosent mean we hate Pakistan,,,,, we all love our Swat and love our Pakistan, and therefore, we live in Pakistan so we love the army, and love Pakistani people and consider ourselves 50% Pakistani..... and one more thing, you cannot say these Pashtuns are this kind and that is that kind.. we are all teh same, even though we live in different countries, nuthing can devide Pashtuns...

 

[graphican]

@Graphican
I have been around here since a while now but thanks again wrora.

The entire world knows what American government is about and since they can harm their own people through 9/11, then they can cause hundreds of 9/11's in Afghanistan or/and either Pakistan. But the reason why I mention Pashtuns in particular is because all non-Pashtun Afghans have recognized colonisation and have chosen NATO over Taliban, but since Pashtuns have chosen it the other way round they have got all the reason to wonder why only them are getting killed by NATO-raid? It's also questionable asking why only Pashtun journalists and mayors get killed and Taliban gets the blame while Taliban do not even reside in that particular area? And even in provinces like Kandahar and Paktia where huge number of Tajiks reside as well, it just makes us (Pashtuns) wonder why once again only Pashtuns get killed?

NWFP was Pashtuns' only mutual support and our second home, but now even NWFP is in trouble and many people blame Afghans for it's situation. But what many don't know that Pashtuns of Afghanistan won't even dream of killing their fellow Pashtun brothers. So to say in other words, Pashtuns on both sides are very divided now and once again Pashtuns feel enemies (whoever they are) have played their game and succeeded. And about Afghan Taliban, Pakistani government's support to USA invasion of Afghanistan caused death of thousands of Taliban, rape of their women, abduction of their children, and poverty and homelessness of majority Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan. And all that was done by non-Pashtun Afghans who were supported by USA, while Pashtuns of Afghanistan trusted Pakistan from depth of their heart but Pakistani government didn't do anything to make those vicious acts stop.

But we can't take Pakistani people granted for whatever their government is doing or has done because whenever we see how many Pakistani's lose their lives today, it makes us as much hurt as when our fellow Afghans lose lives. We Pashtuns have been very hospitable and welcoming to everyone but that very same thing is backfiring on us. That's why it's actually good that Pakistani Pashtuns don't care about all Afghans any more, but I just hope they don't make Afghan Pashtuns stand on the very same line because we are 100% on side of truth and peace.

You are speaking my words and thanks of enlightening many of us over here as some fellow countrymen of mine are deluded to the degree that they are preferring to stay with America instead of Taliban. I see this is solely because of Media that the word Taliban has been polluted and made synonym of terrorism.. and unfortunately, every Talib is considered as Anti-Paksitani. TTP (Tehreek-e-Taliban Paksitan) is terrorist clan but Taliban of Afghanistan are non hostile people, they never threated Pakistan and they are only fighting justified war against foreign Invasion on their pride land.

Even if Afghan Taliban are angry with Pakistani Government for we betrayed them and supported Americans after 9/11, this is time to turn the page and look towards peace and prosperity of Pakistan and Afghanistan. This is time to undo what we did in the past and compensate our Afghan brothers every means possible. To begin that, stop cooperating America in its war in Afghanistan. After that done, we should start strengthening Pashtuns in Afghanistan because only the staggering majority of a Nation, the Pashtuns, can hold on to important matters and bring prosperity and much awaited peace in Afghanistan.

Regarding what America thinks and what it doesn't, Americans had betrayed us in 1971, sanctioned us in 1998 and insulted Pakistanis through Kerry Lugar Bill recently. Should we wait more before we pay them back?

 

[Watani]

@PIA
No buddy, you got me wrong. I have been to NWFP and to every Pakistani Pashtun I spoke called themselves Afghans. Of course they loved Pakistan and were patriotic Pakistani's, but by ethnic they considered themselves Afghans, just like you just did. There is no difference between Pashtuns on both sides and nor do I want any difference to occur between us. But what worries me is that others will play their dirty games on Afghanistan and Pakistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan will blame each other, and Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns would follow the footsteps. I want both countries to do well and all civilians of both countries to gain peace, I don't want all this dirty politics creates any rife between Pashtun on both sides because sooner or later, we will once again need each other.

 

[Watani]

@Graphican
Well the thing is, USA has made such a huge mess out of Afghanistan and has troubled neighbouring countries so much through using us that if once they leave, all those troubled countries will oust their anger on Afghanistan. Taliban surely will come back and take revenge on each and every single non-Pashtun who has harassed any Pashtun during absence of Taliban, so once again ethical cleansing will occur and that's the last thing Afghans and Afghanistan are waiting for. Afghan Taliban indeed is disappointed in Pakistani government, but they will never harm Pakistani people and they don't even want to harm Afghan people. Have you ever wondered why NATO always accompanies itself with few Afghan civilians, no matter where they are? Simply because they know that Taliban will never attack Afghan civilians for no reason and therefore NATO members so far are safe. Also the fact they use translators against Taliban and kill them off once their mission is complete keeps proving Taliban right, whether it's the truth or not. And USA can betray anyone, I only have heard from a lot of Pakistani's how their relatives in USA were treated by American police after 9/11 but let's not even go there, that was just horrible and very wrong.

 

[graphican]

That's why it's actually good that Pakistani Pashtuns don't care about all Afghans any more, but I just hope they don't make Afghan Pashtuns stand on the very same line because we are 100% on side of truth and peace.


are u sayin we Pakistani Pashtuns are different than u guys and we dont caer bout Afghan Pahtun???? u totally got urself wrong buddy... all Pashtuns in Swat and Waziristan pretty much dont belong to Pakistan, we are Afghanis.. I myself am from Swat Pakistan, none of my family think they are 100% Pakistani, theyr fathers and grandfathers were all from Afghan and they believe they themselves are from Afghan too... but that dosent mean we hate Pakistan,,,,, we all love our Swat and love our Pakistan, and therefore, we live in Pakistan so we love the army, and love Pakistani people and consider ourselves 50% Pakistani..... and one more thing, you cannot say these Pashtuns are this kind and that is that kind.. we are all teh same, even though we live in different countries, nuthing can devide Pashtuns...

P.I.A, you have taken Watni in wrong context. What Watni is saying is the same that you are saying. Watni is mentioning non-Pashtun Afghans and that Pak Pashtuns are not in support of them. You are saying the same thing that Watni is saying. People in Pakistan do identify Northern Alliance as non-friendly section of Afghanistan as it has been heavily backed and supported by India. When we back Afghans, we mean the Afghans that actually represent Afghanistan, the majority 80% population who are Pashtuns. So from different directions, we are getting the same vibes and I am happy to see many of us are thinking on the same lines.

 

[Watani]

@Ghargasht
Do you realise that you are actually speaking against yourself? Whether you accept it or not, 9/11 was an inside job and despite of the fact Afghanistan has defeated every super-power who tried to colonise them, still USA thought at least they will be tough enough to colonise us. But look, now next to 40 countries they even beg Russia to come back anyway, LOL. And since Taliban never ever interfered with foreign countries in first place, what on earth makes you think they will do so after USA leaves? They didn't plan 9/11, did they? They didn't ask over 40 countries to come and fight them, did they? Instead, the entire world is following USA's footsteps and now are having the very same biased thinking as USA has had and still has. And how would Taliban make Afghanistan rich if no country recognizes them as Afghan leaders? Why would any country give them financial support if they don't even recognize them? Isn't it obvious that Afghanistan won't progress financially in that perspective? And by the way, money ain't worth more than our people's lives for us. Taliban were in Afghanistan for six years, how come during that time NWFP didn't claim for any Sharia or whatsoever? And Taliban never claimed for Pakhtunistan, they claimed only for Afghanistan and still doing so.

And Taliban indeed were trained in Pakistan and supported by Pakistan as well. Did you in fact know Pakistan and Saudi were only countries who recognized the Taliban? Even I have heard that not all Taliban used to speak either Pashto or Dari but let's leave that aside. As far as the accusations go, Afghanistan doesn't want any interference from their neighbours, whether it's meant to be good or wrong. And about Hamid Karzai, who listens to that dude anyway?

 

[SparklingCrescent]

@PIA
No buddy, you got me wrong. I have been to NWFP and to every Pakistani Pashtun I spoke called themselves Afghans. Of course they loved Pakistan and were patriotic Pakistani's, but by ethnic they considered themselves Afghans, just like you just did. There is no difference between Pashtuns on both sides and nor do I want any difference to occur between us. But what worries me is that others will play their dirty games on Afghanistan and Pakistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan will blame each other, and Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns would follow the footsteps. I want both countries to do well and all civilians of both countries to gain peace, I don't want all this dirty politics creates any rife between Pashtun on both sides because sooner or later, we will once again need each other.

ok I understand now.... I am sorry for what ive said..

 

[graphican]

@Watani

Hay don't underestimate Hamid Karzai, there are few lame ducks in our country too who are in love with him. Get it get it.

 

[SandsofTime]

When we back Afghans, we mean the Afghans that actually represent Afghanistan, the majority 80% population who are Pashtuns.

The Pashtuns are 42%, with Tajiks around 35% and the rest distributed among various ethnicities. That means we need to talk with others as well if we want to have good relations with all Afghans. Otherwise it will be just reverse of whats happening now.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

first of all there is no outlet for the u s of a---they will have to leave in due time---regardless of what happens, the pashtuns would come into power and NA will be have nto adjust to a minority roll. The taliban of afghanistan understand pakistan's position---if america goes home, theraltionship between pak and afg would be back to alliance. The ttp will be crushed by bothe the pak and the afg taliban.

It is too late for the americans to make the surge---first of all they have killed too many afghan innocent bystanders by wayward bombings---. Afghanistan is unlike iraq---the terrain, the people, the temprament and the psyche. There is no comparison between the two---afghan is a ruthless and tactfull warrior.

 

[greatsequence]

Iran is an extremist country-

 

[greatsequence]

The problem is that the Iranians also feel threatened by the Taliban's Sunni extremism. A Taliban government in Afghanistan will push India and Iran closer, like in the 90s. This would be a disaster for Pakistan.

We must improve our relationship with Iran. Iran (and Turkey) are far more vital to our national interests than sucking up to the Arabs. We need to steer a middle path between the Arabs and the Persians/Turks. We need to avoid both the Sunni extremistis and Shia extremists.



The concern is not Americans doing wrong, but Indians and pro-India Afghans. We cannot afford to have ten years of Indian trained TTP killing our people, then running away, rearming and returning from safe havens in Afghanistan. And, rest assured, as long as US remains in Afghanistan, they will allow India to do their ditry tricks from there.

Iran is shitte extremist country that is why they never had good relations with pakistan after the revolution. They were heavily involved in shia sunni conflict during the nineties so there is no need to be concerned about them. They can not threaten the gas pipeline as europe is not buying from them which they were hoping. So get rid of US. Pakistan and pakistanis will be much much safer.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

Hi,

first of all there is no outlet for the u s of a---they will have to leave in due time---regardless of what happens, the pashtuns would come into power and NA will be have nto adjust to a minority roll. The taliban of afghanistan understand pakistan's position---if america goes home, theraltionship between pak and afg would be back to alliance. The ttp will be crushed by bothe the pak and the afg taliban.

It is too late for the americans to make the surge---first of all they have killed too many afghan innocent bystanders by wayward bombings---. Afghanistan is unlike iraq---the terrain, the people, the temprament and the psyche. There is no comparison between the two---afghan is a ruthless and tactfull warrior.

wat makes u think we have sucha a gudd relationship with afghan taliban??? and also, may i know how and why ttp taliban be crushed by us and Aghan Taliban?