Afghan peace talks should not cross 'red lines': India

[Hyperion]

@muse, in the middle of writing very very complex and lengthy code, when free I'll get back to you. @ the moment I'm just pissing-off @Armstrong, eik teer do shikkar.

Pleas elaborate on this - How, exactly, will this be of great benefit for Pakistan?

 

[muse]

About Afghans -- @RescueRanger makes a strong point, but so does @Hyperion -- Yes, Pakistan is not popular in Afghanistan, and yet we cannot wish Afghanistan away.

If you do get a chance to visit Afghanistan, please do pay attention how Afghanistan is actually a part of the Pakistan economy - this can be a net positive, as long as it is not an extractive play because, Afghans, regardless of ethnicity and how you may think or feel about them, are like anybody else, they have pride and they have aspirations for their children - now if we in Pakistan do not see them in this light we do ourselves a disservice - Why? Because if we cannot or do not, help them stay in Afghanistan, they will come over the borders, - Why? because of those aspirations for their children, every parent wants more and better for their children than they have had.

 

[Srinivas]

by whom.......Good Taliban or Bad Taliban......???

Lets call the taliban who agree to democratic set up and leaves AK's as Good Taliban

It not about the problem of India its about the problem of International Community......

Where would you people stand.......???

In my view the nations who are imposing sanctions are no where near Iran or they have any historic relations with Iran, India do have some serious relations and trade relations with Iran, India should not back out on this issue of trade with Iran and continue its relations when Iran is facing tough times.

 

[Developereo]

the US had its role in encouraging this, perhaps even in precipitating [talks]

Slowly, it all falls into place.

The recent Indian "pivot" to East Asia, in line with repeated US urging and against China, is intended to pacify the US just enough -- and to keep it hooked -- so that Indian interests are safeguarded by the US in Afghanistan.

The Ladakh incursion was, of course, deliberately provoked by the Indian government, as I indicated elsewhere, and to corral Indian public opinion for an anti-China move.

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours...

 

[muse]

Have any of the geniuses here figured out why the US has a need to talk with the taliban and the haqqani?

specially after spending billions on the present Afghan Government and army training and equiping them, and after losing hundreds of US troops to the taliban and haqqani.

They are leaving Afghanistan for good, then why bother with the taliban or any peace talks without the presence of the main party - the Afghan Government? I dont think they are stupid to not involve the main protagonists.

@muse, @mafiya.

I think policy and compulsion meet in the need to engage the Talib and put the Haqqani in perspective - A stable (more than less) Afghanistan in which US can exercise her SOFA rights and responsibilities (bigger fish to fry) and the possible evolution of the Talib are venues that deserve to be explored. The kind of rhetoric we hear from US types about Pakistan and her role, also seems to be a different tone (one from a Pakistani perspective, is not harmful- yet) - this may indicate that there may be some basis to conclude that we can have some measure of confidence that policy objectives of the major players can be accommodated through a successful dialogue process.

 

[illusion8]

doesn't matter still they (Taliban) would soon rule Afghanistan soon

And, is that a good thing by any stretch of imagination?

All this crap is worthless since america is negotiating with Afghan taliban which gives a legitimate reason that Pakistan was right to say that Negotiating with Taliban is only way forward. Now this classification of yours is only made up by you or western media. Pure crap

Are the Americans negotiating to hand over Afghanistan to the Taliban and as an extension to Pakistan? or for something else?

 

[datalibdaz]

@datalibdaz : Rora, tu bhii Afghan Pukhtoonon ka hamaytiii haiii ?

Sir g... Gilla hamesha apnu se ke jatee hai...Pariyuon sey nahee...Afghan pakhtunu ko hum sey gilla hey aur hamara un sey bhe gilla hae...Why?because we are linked to each other...Both are Pakhtun's...Same culture,language,appearence,thoughts,everthing are the same between Pakistan and Afghan Pakhtun's...So how can you think of separating them...
Although the Farsiwan's need some strict taming...This whole propaganda of Pakhtun's against Pakistan are because of these beghairat backstabbers...We shouldn't fall for it...This is what they want...We living slightly better than afghan pakhtun's should help them out of their misery, but first US &Nato needs to shoo...After that these bastards farsiwan's or kabaliyan would run away to germany,uk and we would have to do damage control...Provide shelter to only afghan pakhtun's,and filter out the farsiwan's on the borders or shoot them..
Some people say Afghanistan grave yard for super powers...it certainly is, maybe because of terrain but certainly is because of the people, Pakhtun's...Pakistan needs to stable itself first...But certainly should not let go afghanistan from hands...Our involvement in afg is in our interest...We cannot leave afg as a base for Russia and India to carry out attacks inside Pakistan AGAIN!!!!!!

 

[Developereo]

travel to Kabul and sit in a tea shop, talk to a few locals and tell them you're from Pakistan, watch the disgust on their faces.

For 10+ years, the Afghans have been fed a convenient narrative: all your troubles are caused by Pakistan.

While Pakistan certainly played it's part, it was not the only player, and the others have magically portrayed themselves as saviors.

It won't be easy to wean the Afghans away from this victim narrative and to stop using Pakistan as the scapegoat for their problems.

 

[illusion8]

I think policy and compulsion meet in the need to engage the Talib and put the Haqqani in perspective

the possible evolution of the Talib are venues that deserve to be explored.

The Americans have become the good guys - looking out for the Taliban and the haqqani's and looking out for their transformation? - just wow.

The kind of rhetoric we hear from US types about Pakistan and her role, also seems to be a different tone (one from a Pakistani perspective, is not harmful- yet)

What brought about this sudden change is what surprises me

this may indicate that there may be some basis to conclude that we can have some measure of confidence that policy objectives of the major players can be accommodated through a successful dialogue process.

Sidelining the actual main player - the Afghan people and the legitimate Afghan Government? - So in a way the US does not care for the Karzai Government, or for that matter Russian and Indian sentiments - nice.

 

[muse]

Sir g... Gilla hamesha apnu se ke jatee hai...Pariyuon sey nahee...Afghan pakhtunu ko hum sey gilla hey aur hamara un sey bhe gilla hae...Why?because we are linked to each other...Both are Pakhtun's...Same culture,language,appearence,thoughts,everthing are the same between Pakistan and Afghan Pakhtun's...So how can you think of separating them...
Although the Farsiwan's need some strict taming...This whole propaganda of Pakhtun's against Pakistan are because of these beghairat backstabbers...We shouldn't fall for it...This is what they want...We living slightly better than afghan pakhtun's should help them out of their misery, but first US &Nato needs to shoo...After that these bastards farsiwan's or kabaliyan would run away to germany,uk and we would have to do damage control...Provide shelter to only afghan pakhtun's,and filter out the farsiwan's on the borders or shoot them..
Some people say Afghanistan grave yard for super powers...it certainly is, maybe because of terrain but certainly is because of the people, Pakhtun's...Pakistan needs to stable itself first...But certainly should not let go afghanistan from hands...Our involvement in afg is in our interest...We cannot leave afg as a base for Russia and India to carry out attacks inside Pakistan AGAIN!!!!!!

My own experience is that in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Pakistanis are very unpopular among Pashtuns of Afghanistan, especially with those who have any kind of education --- And it's always fun to watch the transformation of Pakistani pashtun after they experience the full force of Afghan Pashtun brotherhood when Pakistani Pashtun visit Afghanistan.

Interestingly it is only Pakistani Pashtun who have very little experience in or with Afghanistan, who continue with "brother" rhetoric and same culture, yada yada -- Others experience may be different, but I am telling you mine -- The other thing I found interesting was that to a man Afghans, with the exception of the Uzbek and Turkoman, claimed not to know how to speak Urdu, let me tell you that Urdu is spoken by an astonishing number of people in Afghanistan, in fact you can get anything done with Urdu and money, in Afghanistan.

 

[muse]

The Americans have become the good guys - looking out for the Taliban and the haqqani's and looking out for their transformation? - just wow.
What brought about this sudden change is what surprises me
Sidelining the actual main player - the Afghan people and the legitimate Afghan Government? - So in a way the US does not care for the Karzai Government, or for that matter Russian and Indian sentiments - nice.

I think the better way to respond to this, is to ensure the Indian interests also get a hearing in THIS framework -- While Ambassador Bhadrakumar has worked the Russian in to his piece, I'm sure Pakistan want Russia on board and on their side - evolving trends in diplomacy in the region suggest that Russia is important to Pakistan.

 

[illusion8]

I think the better way to respond to this, is to ensure the Indian interests also get a hearing in THIS framework -- While Ambassador Bhadrakumar has worked the Russian in to his piece, I'm sure Pakistan want Russia on board and on their side - evolving trends in diplomacy in the region suggest that Russia is important to Pakistan.

Russia throws its weight behind Karzai - The Hindu

India supports Hamid Karzai
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-supports-hamid-karzai-in-spat-over-taliban-office-382721

Karzai, Russia, India, America, Taliban, Haqqani, Pakistan - that's a fail mix. there are two distinct camps there. What about China and Iran? - I don't think they fancy Taliban and Haqqani's running their writ in Afghanistan again.

I think there's more to this talks than what is being assumed.

 

[muse]

Russia throws its weight behind Karzai - The Hindu

India supports Hamid Karzai
India supports Hamid Karzai in spat over Taliban office | NDTV.com

Karzai, Russia, India, America, Taliban, Haqqani, Pakistan - that's a fail mix. there are two distinct camps there. What about China and Iran? - I don't think they fancy Taliban and Haqqani's running their writ in Afghanistan again.

I think there's more to this talks than what is being assumed.

the Russian Foreign Ministry announced that it fully supported Mr. Karzai’s position that peace efforts in the war-torn country should be led by the government of Afghanistan, instead of the U.S.

Semantics and interpretation -- These objections and the Doha negotiations (should they ever start) do not preclude the Afghan High Council's inclusion at a time of their choosing (preferably when Mr. Karzai can be better appraised of his options)

 

[illusion8]

@muse,
Pakistan, Taliban and the US vs Russia, Iran, Karzai and India.
Are we back in the 80's? that's a big dose of nostalgia - right there

the Russian Foreign Ministry announced that it fully supported Mr. Karzai’s position that peace efforts in the war-torn country should be led by the government of Afghanistan, instead of the U.S.

Semantics and interpretation -- These objections and the Doha negotiations (should they ever start) do not preclude the Afghan High Council's inclusion at a time of their choosing (preferably when Mr. Karzai can be better appraised of his options)

This article is more apt.

On Wednesday the United States attempted to salvage plans to hold talks with the Taliban while Russia threw its support behind President Hamid Karzai after he angrily cancelled security talks with Washington.
Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_20/U-S-courts-Taliban-Russia-backs-Karzai-7131/

 

[muse]

@muse,
Pakistan, Taliban and the US vs Russia, Iran, Karzai and India.
Are we back in the 80's? that's a big dose of nostalgia - right there

I don't know if we had ever left that - many of the equations seem the same, though some change while others find it difficult to.