Afghan National Army hostile to Pakistan: Report

[Redbull]

What's Your personal position on Durand line. you are british citizen?

It's an international border.

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

This proves my point, Afghans are crying about what the rest of the World sees as an indisputable fact.

I have already clarified that. It is up to the people - the Pashtuns to decide on this when it is neutral to do so. Thanks

 

[Redbull]

I have already clarified that. It is up to the people - the Pashtuns to decide on this when it is neutral to do so. Thanks

Which ones, the Pashtuns of Pakistan or both countries?

 

[Armstrong]

Like when did you beat us? The issue of Bajuar you bring up time and again much happened in a local context. Stop blowing hot air. Be satisfied coz our recognition should not matter and one wonder why you keep asking for it.

A localized incident really ?

On September 23, 1960, a large Afghan Lashkar raided Bajaur within Pakistan territory. The attack was replused by local tribesmen. Again on May 19, 20 and 21, 1961, an Afghan 1ashkar in large numbers, raided Pakistani territory and attacked Pakistan pickets at Shahi, Miskanai and Sangpara with mortars and machine guns. Their attacks were replused. Both these attacks were organised by the Afghan Government without any provocation from Pakistan. The Government of Pakistan protested to the Afghan Government against aggressions on Pakistan territory

Source : Mehrunnisa Ali, Pak-Afghan Discord: A Historical Perspective (Documents 1855-1979) (Karachi: Pakistan Study Centre, University of Karachi, 1990), pp. 276-280

In addition to that we bombed one of your villages in '49 too because of your skirmishes & the Levies have continued to repulse Afghan Lashkars in the past before the Afghan Jihad !

And we are very much satisfied by our recognition, even your US colonial masters agreed to that end !

But then again the continuous noise in the background has a tendency of irking even the cool of mind !

Not good mate.. Am laid down with a back sprain that's a real ****** And really depressed about the recent rape/murder incident in Delhi..

Yeah that was enough to sullen my mood too ! This sh*t happens in Pakistan too & sometimes our foOked up Zia ul Haq era laws end up making the victim accused of adultery instead; thank god much of them got reversed during this government's tenure & the rest would be uprooted & shoved up these bearded bufooon's arse !

May She Rest in Peace ! Amen.

 

[Areesh]

Raise the issue in the next bilateral talk about whole India being disputed and then we will discuss that.

The Kashmir issue is always raised with the Indian govt. And the official verdict is still the same. Kashmir is a disputed territory.

On the other hand Afghanistan has been pretty consistent for the last 6 or so decades about the issue of KPK and hence clubbing it with a hypothetical scenario is not wise.

They might remain consistent for next six centuries. Just because someone is bragging and whining over some piece of land for a long time won't make it disputed. At least things don't work in this manner in the real world. By the way we are also very consistent about Kashmir issue. Our claim is also justified then for you?

The Afghans consider it disputed territory and hence they are justified in their claim. You can feel free to disagree just like it laugh it off when Pakistanis claim Kashmir is a disputed territory.

As I said before. Bring something as a proof that we might discuss to check how much justified their claim is. I am not disagreeing or laughing of. I just want you to be mature and back yourself with something credible.

 

[r3alist]

I have already clarified that. It is up to the people - the Pashtuns to decide on this when it is neutral to do so. Thanks

What pashtuns would these be?

 

[seethru]

It's an international border.

My personal Position:

Durand Line's validity after Indian Independance Act makes things complex. As most of you know, the Treaty was between the Emir of Afghanistan and British based on the victories of British led Indian Armed forces in that theatre in 1878. After the "transfer of power" through Act of British Parliament in 1947, the Dominions of Pakistan and India did not come into existence immedietely but through a process stipulated within the act. This complicates things in the subcontinent in my view looking at the history today.

The fate of North West Frontier Province was left to the result of referendum in the Act. Now, the NWFP as a province of British India owes it's Political identity solely to Durand line and the Treaty between British and Afghanistan. British transfer of power in 1947, made the territories in British India unavailable for the British to exercise their sovergnity directly(except the British Indian Ocean Terriotires) but through the dominions if they oblige. This should have made the NWFP a peculiar case. Although, NWFP wasn't a princely state, its status as a province was meaningful only if British or either dominions could to exercise the sovergnity over the territory, given the geography and Political status of Afghanistan as opposed to rest of the princely states within British India. Instead, the people of NWFP were given a choice of opting between Dominion of Pakistan or India. This is effectively presenting the same option as two disticnt choices. (saying you can enter the home either through the front gate or rear entrance). Ideally, the people of NWFP should have been given an option to either continue with their status as a province in British India or dissolve the same to join Afghanistan after the Indian Independance Act. Since both the Dominions become the party in the treaty between the British and Afghanistan.

In case the people of NWFP chose to continue as a province of British India or part of either of the dominions, only then they should have gone on to a referendum with Pakistan and India as options. Or, The referendum that the took place should have had 3 options India Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Even if one disregards all of this, the referendum the took place was at best a staged show

It was not based on adult franchise, Voting was restricted

Not all Pakhtoons were allowed to participate in the referendum that would seal not only their fate but that of their brothers in Afghanistan

The tribal Pakhtoons were not allowed to vote. In the population of 3.5 Million only 0.6 Million were allowed to vote

6 Tribal agencies were barred from it

The States of Sawat, Dir,Amb, and Chitral were also not allowed to participate

Any referendum that disenfranchises such a large number of population can never be a legitimate exercise of “self determination”. Even the so called referundum that took place can't be taken seriously. So, Durand Line is definitley not a closed issue.

 

[RescueRanger]

Dont worry about the ANA, they are too busy getting high on dope and expending their ammo in mid air to actually fight a war. Give it a couple of months after ISAF Leaves...

Fighting Alongside Stoned Afghan Soldiers - VICE - YouTube

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

A localized incident really ?

On September 23, 1960, a large Afghan Lashkar raided Bajaur within Pakistan territory. The attack was replused by local tribesmen. Again on May 19, 20 and 21, 1961, an Afghan 1ashkar in large numbers, raided Pakistani territory and attacked Pakistan pickets at Shahi, Miskanai and Sangpara with mortars and machine guns. Their attacks were replused. Both these attacks were organised by the Afghan Government without any provocation from Pakistan. The Government of Pakistan protested to the Afghan Government against aggressions on Pakistan territory

Source : Mehrunnisa Ali, Pak-Afghan Discord: A Historical Perspective (Documents 1855-1979) (Karachi: Pakistan Study Centre, University of Karachi, 1990), pp. 276-280

In addition to that we bombed one of your villages in '49 too because of your skirmishes & the Levies have continued to repulse Afghan Lashkars in the past before the Afghan Jihad !

And after that Pakistan bombarded Afghan forces using its airpower.
It was pakistan who started the violation by bombing an afghan village through its planes in 1949.
You frequently mentions bajaur, but you dont mention the afridi jirga in 1952, which was going to take decision about pakhtunistan , but was bombarded by pakistan air force, killing 18 people. The jirga was called by malik wali khan kuki khel, malik said khan zaka khel, and maulvi ghairat gul of J.U.I

 

[KS]

And after that Pakistan bombarded Afghan forces using its airpower.
It was pakistan who started the violation by bombing an afghan village through its planes in 1949.
You frequently mentions bajaur, but you dont mention the afridi jirga in 1952, which was going to take decision about pakhtunistan , but was bombarded by pakistan air force, killing 18 people. The jirga was called by malik wali khan kuki khel, malik said khan zaka khel, and maulvi ghairat gul of J.U.I

So are you saying that the Bajaur incident was a mere continuation of age old tribal rivalries and nothing like what it is made out to be ?

 

[Armstrong]

And after that Pakistan bombarded Afghan forces using its airpower.
It was pakistan who started the violation by bombing an afghan village through its planes in 1949.
You frequently mentions bajaur, but you dont mention the afridi jirga in 1952, which was going to take decision about pakhtunistan , but was bombarded by pakistan air force, killing 18 people. The jirga was called by malik wali khan kuki khel, malik said khan zaka khel, and maulvi ghairat gul of J.U.I

Pakistan bombarded in response to Afghan incursions in '49 !

And do quote a source about this Afridi Jirga of '52 for I've never heard about it.

 

[Rusty]

just send back all the million of refugees in Pakistan and see how long the country stays afloat.
ANA will be too busy dealing with those people to have time to be anti anything.

 

[Sedqal]

Just accept the Durand line and Pakistani political forces will ensure that Pakistan does not meddle in Afghanistan affairs. By refusing to accept the Durand line (and claiming land uptill Jehlum and Gwadar) you are giving Military forces a legitimate reason to be in Afghanistan.

I don't have any hate for Afghanistan or its people, I think Pakistan should accept any force that wins public support over there and keep itself out of there for a decade or two. You Afghanistanis have a favorite punching bag in shape of Pakistan on whom you fix all the blame.

 

[Areesh]

Not all Pakhtoons were allowed to participate in the referendum that would seal not only their fate but that of their brothers in Afghanistan

The tribal Pakhtoons were not allowed to vote. In the population of 3.5 Million only 0.6 Million were allowed to vote

6 Tribal agencies were barred from it

The States of Sawat, Dir,Amb, and Chitral were also not allowed to participate

And there is no separatist or secessionist movement in any part that you have mentioned in here. So a referendum was conducted. And people decided to join Pakistan. And those who didn't participate as you mentioned also have no issues in living with Pakistan. It isn't confusing. It is pretty easy and simple.

So are you saying that the Bajaur incident was a mere continuation of age old tribal rivalries and nothing like what it is made out to be ?

I am still waiting for you to prove that why you believe Afghan ridiculous claims are justified. You often quit when you don't have anything to back yourself with.

You need to do better. Indian trolls are more consistent than that.

 

[Areesh]

just send back all the million of refugees in Pakistan and see how long the country stays afloat.
ANA will be too busy dealing with those people to have time to be anti anything.

ANA is even hostile to itself. Just check the green on green attacks last year for further reference.