Aero India 2013

[Rikbo]

As a former Sikorsky employee & expert on the S-70B let me say they are different, most notably with regards to the mission system. (The airframes are both made by Sikorsky). The 60R & 70B are very similar with regards to mission capability and the mission systems they contain. The S-70B was designed for the international market place. It was designed to be easily modified and tailored for each customer. This is due to the fact that most, if not all, international customers will want to integrate capabilities or equipment not current available on an existing configuration of that aircraft. The MH-60R was designed for the US navy. The system has to be "dumbed down" to create an exportable version and then new capabilities or equipment integrated. This is a much more difficult and labor intensive task. The MH-60R is employs a single operator to handle both tactical and accoustic functions in the rear of the aircraft. This "integrated sonics" approach offers some advantages including requiring one less crew member but it does not meet the criteria for dual operators for the Indian navy. The MH-60R does not have an anti ship missile integrated other than the Hellfire (The S-70B has the Penguin). The mission system operator interface and overall design (Done by Lockheed Martin) has been criticized by operators and pilots as not being very user friendly and other info indicates on going problems with the system. An upgrade is in the works including adding a track ball to enhance operator interaction with the system but in initial testing this has received only luke warm reviews by the crews. The S-70B mission system is a Sikorsky and Rockwell Collins design that is now in its 5th generation. It is, in my opinion, the best in mission systems out there. It has been continually updated over the years to add new capabilities and address obsolescence issues. The new Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS) & Weapons Management System (WMS) offer outstanding capabilities. The MK-54 torpedo (which India is getting as part of tis P-8 patrol aircraft purchase) has already been integrated. For this reader, the S-70B is the clear choice. In addition, the MH-60R is not in the current tender for 16 MRH aircraft for the Indian navy. The S-70B is & should win that competition. The Indian Navy will be happy with that choice and it would then make no sense to procure another aircraft for the obvious reasons (training, maintenance, logistics, etc.)
As far as differences:
1. S-70B has the Penguin Anti-Ship missile already integrated, the 60R does not.
2. Both have the American MK-46 & MK-54 torpedoes already integrated. The 70B also has the Eurotorp A244 mod 3 torpedo integrated.
3. The 70B AFCS is a new system that represents a significant improvement over earlier Seahawk systems.
4. The new WMS facilitates integration of indigenous systems or unique customer required stores or weapons.
5. The 70B employs a "federated systems architecture" meaning major functions are dispersed to centralized subsystems. Modification enhancement has typically proved to be easier, cheaper, and less risk for systems of this type, while the 60R employs a "centralized architecture" with a primary and backup mission computer that performs all mission related functions ( mission management, flight management, weapons management, navigation, etc.)
6. Both have integrated FLIR, ESM, counter measures, Radar, EGI (embedded GPS with inertial) navigation and attitude reference systems, and AFCS systems. I believe the 60R does not currently have a VOR/TACAN navigation capability.
7. The 60R uses Link 16 while the 70B uses Link 11.
The Indian navy has flown the 70B extensively during evaluations for the current MRH tender and has also flown the 60R to a lessor degree. I believe they have all the information they need to make an informed and appropriate decision. In conclusion, the Indian navy would be getting what I believe to be best ASW & ASuW aircraft available.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these Mercedes Benz Actros in Indian service.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

@indian_foxhound sir did you mangae to snap any pics/vids of the Garuds or ARKK units?

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[Abingdonboy]

Thanks for the EXCELLENT explanation sir!
@Rikbo What then compelled the Australians to replace their S-70Bs with MH-60Rs and why have the Danish also gone for the MH-60R over the export version,S-70B?

Something to do with NATO-interoperability I'd assume. The Indian Navy clearly doesn't have this complusion.

+ is there a "stripped-down" version of the S-70B that can be used for utility,SAR and troop transport roles? As the IN currenlty has the Sea King MK.42 for ASW warfeare but also has the .42C for utility/SAR/troop insertion missions. So the IN needs a replacment for all such helos.

 

[StormShadow]

Bangalore, Feb. 6: Behind Israel’s Iron Dome for India is a Stunner in the works.

Israel, India’s furtive defence supplier that both countries keep shrouded behind layers of confidentiality, has outed itself in the Aero India 9th edition here.

A truck-mounted launcher from its Iron Dome missile system greets visitors at the entrance to the biannual event in the IAF’s Yelahanka airbase that showcases the air combat inventory that India has on its wish list.

The Iron Dome, successfully demonstrated in last year’s short sharp war between Israel and militants in the Gaza Strip, is on that list. But somewhere below is its bigger brother named David’s Sling. The Stunner is the rocket that the David’s Sling system fires to shoot down enemy missiles with ranges 250km and above.

So important has Israel’s presence been at this edition of Aero India that even defence minister A.K. Antony, known for his aversion to being publicly seen in the company of India’s possibly most reliable military supplier as of now, allowed himself to be photographed with Major General Ehud Shani, the director general in Israel’s ministry of defence.

Israel and India, said Israel’s ambassador Alon Ushpiz at the opening of his country’s pavilion here, share a “level of intimacy and co-operation” that is reflected and is an “integral part of the growing multifaceted relationship between our two countries”.

“Without going into details, the friendship and chemistry between Israelis and Indians… is a source of pride and indeed a bedrock of security, stability and tranquillity for both our nations,”

he said.

The Iron Dome system that its maker Rafael claims shot down 85 per cent of Fajr5 and Qassam rockets on target from militants in the Gaza Strip was deployed across south Israeli settlements and to protect parts of Tel Aviv. It took three to five batteries of Iron Dome to protect Tel Aviv. Israel expects that the demonstration of the system will encourage India to buy it for its VVIP areas.

There is a difference, though, of size. Tel Aviv covers about 176sqkm with about 52sqkm estimated to have been targeted by the militants.

The National Capital Territory of Delhi, in comparison, is spread over 1,483sqkm.

Even the David’s Sling, which Israel’s Rafael is developing with the US-headquartered Raytheon and covers a larger area, has a single system for Israel as of now. A test in November 2012 is said to have been successful.

A Rafael official said a single David’s Sling system would give cover for Israel, a country with contested boundaries but spanning approximately 16,000sqkm, less than even that of Kerala (about 18,650sqkm), one of India’s smaller states in terms of acreage.

Israel has a four-layered missile defence system, graduating from the Iron Dome in the close-in area to the David’s Sling and the Arrow II and the Arrow III for longer-range missiles.

India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation claims that its own missile defence system is ready to be translated from the drawing board to a war theatre. India has also been in talks with the US and Russia for missile defence systems like the Patriot III and the SV-300 for long and medium ranges.

In early December, however, an Israeli delegation is understood to have held extensive talks with the Indian defence ministry. Indian officials expressed more keenness on the David’s Sling than in the Iron Dome.

AFSPA caution

Antony today advised caution on demands for change to the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, which grants soldiers immunity from prosecution in areas covered by the law, to address alleged harassment of women by defence personnel.

“We have to be very careful and we cannot take any hasty decisions,” the minister told a news conference after inaugurating Aero India 2013 here.

In the same breath, Antony promised such cases involving defence personnel would be handled strongly. “I have informed the armed forces that any such cases will have zero tolerance.”

The Justice J.S. Verma Committee, many of whose recommendations were reflected in the February 3 ordinance on crimes against women, had suggested changes in the AFSPA.

Israel’s Stunner emerges on India’s radar

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Yeah First reports talked about our interest in Iron dome. Then official denial came. Now, ohhh a correction, they want david not iron dome. It seems US is tightening its funding to Israel.

 

[StormShadow]

Yeah First reports talked about our interest in Iron dome. Then official denial came. Now, ohhh a correction, they want david not iron dome. It seems US is tightening its funding to Israel.

It has got nothing to do with US. India itself is not keen to purchase it.

An Israeli missile shield, which created some buzz in the defence ministry last year following its success in Gaza Strip, may not finally come to India, as the armed forces are not satisfied with its utility because of its short range.

Known as Iron Dome, it is an air defence system — meant to neutralise rockets and artillery cells fired from a distance of up to 70 km — which emerged as one of the world’s most successful missile shields.

As the ministry was scouring the market for an effective missile cover for Delhi and Mumbai, Iron Dome caught its attention. Preliminary discussions were held with Israeli officials, too. But now, questions are being raised by the armed forces over its efficiency.
“Our challenges are bigger. We have to cover a bigger distance.

We have a dense airspace and a long border. Iron Dome is not the answer for our requirement,” Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, chief of Indian the Air Force and chairman of the Chief of Staff Committee, said at the airshow here on Thursday.

The Iron Dome system, developed by Rafael Advanced Defence System, is on display at the show along with the launchers, which drew curious crowd in the last three days.

Incidentally, this is one of the few pavilions, which Defence Minister A K Antony visited after inaugurating the airshow signifying Israel’s importance as military supplier. Along with the USA and Russia, Israel is also one of the largest suppliers of military hardware to India.

“One of the highlights of this year’s airshow, presented for the first time in India, is the Iron Dome system. This is an indigenously developed, game-changing, first-of-its-kind missile interception system.

It performed with notable distinction, protecting over half of Israel’s population from a barrage of over 1,500 rockets and missiles,” Israeli ambassador Alon Ushpiz said. Last year alone it neutralised more than 400 rocket attacks.

“We have seen the performance of Iron Dome in Gaza last year. It proved successful in that environment. But the system is still being fine-tuned and the Indian environment is different. Other systems like David’s Sling are also being developed,” Browne said.

Unlike the short-range Iron Dome, a longer-range defence system called David Sling, with an interceptor missile known as Stunner, is in the making. Only one trial had been carried out, but the two countries have begun preliminary discussions. The Stunner too is on display at the Bangalore airshow.

India not keen on Israel’s Iron Dome missile system

 

[trident2010]

I don't think we need a complete missile defense system from Israel. What we can co-develop with Israel are advances radars and sensors as a components of our own AMD.

 

[indian_foxhound]

@indian_foxhound sir did you mangae to snap any pics/vids of the Garuds or ARKK units?

Man having high fever... Because change in weather...Miss today show... Sorry brother. Ill will put that trucks doc on youtube and give you the think @Abingdonboy

 

[indian_foxhound]

The business of Aero India 2013

9th edition of Aero India 2013 ends

HAL Rudra + HAL LCH Aero India 2013

 

[indian_foxhound]

RED BULLS, RAFALE jets DAZZLE Bangalore AIR SHOW