indian_foxhound
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A tribute to surya kiran
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Aero India 2013
- Thread starter ganimi kawa
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Update from AI-2013
ADA working on some unmanned project other that UCAV, could be AURA and says he cant talk abt it. Its completed design phase and will be ahead of AMCA. Stealth features would be higher that AMCA.
one problem with LCA delay is Airforce it seems. Before only cemilac and HAL were involved it seems not Airforce is there and they are not ready to take the aircraft for testing wthout small small things being changed it seems. Thats the delay from EGR to first flight. They could prefer foreign components in LCA may be just to get an airticket to see the facility. Even after all this they are trying max to indiginise most LRU's
HAL has readied new 5 hangers of which 3 are for LCA production line and 2 for IJT. Even ADA thinks they are trying to be ready to start production immediately after IOC.
LUH GTV is ready but engine decision is not yet taken. It could be shakthi or a rolls Royce one whihc i have the photo but lost my usb connector at AI. LUH will have touch screen and all that and will be advanced than ALH in terms of avionics as per HAL. No one has asked for those upgrades in ALH-IV (rudra also).
HAL going alone in HTT-40, they say all the news about double the cost of Pilatus is nonsense. And they say its too easy for them to develop HTT-40. HAL looks like they are in serious business. may be Tyagi was the right guy for HAL.
Regarding NAK brownes comment of Al55I having only 100 hours flight, he says its a new engine and even russians are not aware of MTBF. so every 100 hours they open and check every component to see any deviation.
GTRE is trying to rope in a LCA to fix with kaveri K9 and they are not aware of DMRL's SCB.
GTRE is working on engine for UCAV whihc is derivative of Kaveri without afterburner. and they are working on an engine for what ever the ADA guys said he cant talk to me about as well. same response from GTRE. marine engine they have demonstrated but till now no requirement from navy. K9 50 hours of high altitude testing complete of 80 hours required. Some minor issue with vibration in LP region is being fixed now by changing DS blade. No weight reduction programme yet but once this is fixed and tested they will start putting composites in many parts of engine.
DMRL SCB blade shown in some photo 2 days back is new. the SCB vane shown was developed 10 days back. It has not reached GTRE or HAL yet, they dont even know about it. still undergoing testings.
LRDE says they will be ready in two years atmost with AESA for LCA. already T/R modules are ready and many things on going for the same.
NAL Saras will start flying in two months with all recommended FAR-23 changes, new engine etc.
Amazing how the number of Indian private companies have gone up so many times from the previous AI's. So many SME's. Companies like alpha designs and data patterns have so much to show case. Corner shot weapons procured and assembled from Isrealis by Alpha design and supplied to BSF and NSG.
ADA working on some unmanned project other that UCAV, could be AURA and says he cant talk abt it. Its completed design phase and will be ahead of AMCA. Stealth features would be higher that AMCA.
one problem with LCA delay is Airforce it seems. Before only cemilac and HAL were involved it seems not Airforce is there and they are not ready to take the aircraft for testing wthout small small things being changed it seems. Thats the delay from EGR to first flight. They could prefer foreign components in LCA may be just to get an airticket to see the facility. Even after all this they are trying max to indiginise most LRU's
HAL has readied new 5 hangers of which 3 are for LCA production line and 2 for IJT. Even ADA thinks they are trying to be ready to start production immediately after IOC.
LUH GTV is ready but engine decision is not yet taken. It could be shakthi or a rolls Royce one whihc i have the photo but lost my usb connector at AI. LUH will have touch screen and all that and will be advanced than ALH in terms of avionics as per HAL. No one has asked for those upgrades in ALH-IV (rudra also).
HAL going alone in HTT-40, they say all the news about double the cost of Pilatus is nonsense. And they say its too easy for them to develop HTT-40. HAL looks like they are in serious business. may be Tyagi was the right guy for HAL.
Regarding NAK brownes comment of Al55I having only 100 hours flight, he says its a new engine and even russians are not aware of MTBF. so every 100 hours they open and check every component to see any deviation.
GTRE is trying to rope in a LCA to fix with kaveri K9 and they are not aware of DMRL's SCB.
GTRE is working on engine for UCAV whihc is derivative of Kaveri without afterburner. and they are working on an engine for what ever the ADA guys said he cant talk to me about as well. same response from GTRE. marine engine they have demonstrated but till now no requirement from navy. K9 50 hours of high altitude testing complete of 80 hours required. Some minor issue with vibration in LP region is being fixed now by changing DS blade. No weight reduction programme yet but once this is fixed and tested they will start putting composites in many parts of engine.
DMRL SCB blade shown in some photo 2 days back is new. the SCB vane shown was developed 10 days back. It has not reached GTRE or HAL yet, they dont even know about it. still undergoing testings.
LRDE says they will be ready in two years atmost with AESA for LCA. already T/R modules are ready and many things on going for the same.
NAL Saras will start flying in two months with all recommended FAR-23 changes, new engine etc.
Amazing how the number of Indian private companies have gone up so many times from the previous AI's. So many SME's. Companies like alpha designs and data patterns have so much to show case. Corner shot weapons procured and assembled from Isrealis by Alpha design and supplied to BSF and NSG.
Abingdonboy
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Israel is a true friend of India. You wouldn't see Israel selling any military systems to Pakistan- that's for sure.
)
Rikbo
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Abingdonboy,
The Australians had a billion dollar failure with the Seaspite program and after that the politicians decided to go for a low risk program. They perceived the 60R as a low risk approach given its use by the USN and time in service. Had you asked the operators who now fly the S-70B-2 that the 60R will replace, they like the 70B. Interoperability, USN logistics support, and other reasons all played into the decision. I am not saying the 60R is a bad aircraft, I am saying the 70B is just better primarily due to the design & implementation to the avionics & mission system. The 70B has also always has been shown to be the less expensive aircraft since Lockheed's cost for mission system development has always been higher than Sikorsky. Lockheed Martin, the USN, and even the US government are all pushing the 60R very aggressively on the international market place hoping to displace the 70B. Sikorsky is kind of caught in an awkward position having two very viable aircraft candidates and not wanting to piss off Lockheed & the USN but still insure they win any competition. Lockheed & Sikorsky are now developing an export version of the 60R that will allow for a direct commercial sale rather than an FMS sale (where the USG &USN manage the contract). Well see how well Lockheed does with customizing the 60R for the international market place, something the all Sikorsky team has been doing with great success for 20 years on the S-70B.
The S-70B can be configured in a utility version and this is something Sikorsky has already looked at for other customers. Versions without the sonar & other mission systems have already been partially designed. Configuring such an aircraft for the Indian navy would be no issue for Sikorsky.
The Australians had a billion dollar failure with the Seaspite program and after that the politicians decided to go for a low risk program. They perceived the 60R as a low risk approach given its use by the USN and time in service. Had you asked the operators who now fly the S-70B-2 that the 60R will replace, they like the 70B. Interoperability, USN logistics support, and other reasons all played into the decision. I am not saying the 60R is a bad aircraft, I am saying the 70B is just better primarily due to the design & implementation to the avionics & mission system. The 70B has also always has been shown to be the less expensive aircraft since Lockheed's cost for mission system development has always been higher than Sikorsky. Lockheed Martin, the USN, and even the US government are all pushing the 60R very aggressively on the international market place hoping to displace the 70B. Sikorsky is kind of caught in an awkward position having two very viable aircraft candidates and not wanting to piss off Lockheed & the USN but still insure they win any competition. Lockheed & Sikorsky are now developing an export version of the 60R that will allow for a direct commercial sale rather than an FMS sale (where the USG &USN manage the contract). Well see how well Lockheed does with customizing the 60R for the international market place, something the all Sikorsky team has been doing with great success for 20 years on the S-70B.
The S-70B can be configured in a utility version and this is something Sikorsky has already looked at for other customers. Versions without the sonar & other mission systems have already been partially designed. Configuring such an aircraft for the Indian navy would be no issue for Sikorsky.
What is the point of making the statement in the line of "the sky is blue"?
Abingdonboy
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I was trying to reference the Russians who many Indians here claim is India's "best" buddy and loyal ally and yet has sold military equipment to India's enemies/rivals. The Russians themselves are always asserting they are India's only strategic partner who will always look out for India's interests. However the Israelis are keen to keep their partnership with India low-Kay and doesn't make such bold or inaccurate statements.
Israel's efforts are under appreciated by many Indians, this was all I was trying to say.
How in the world does Pakistan even FIT into this line of statement?
Israel sold to China?? A lot of systems in the 90s and still maintains defense contacts at lower levels?
Hyperion
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Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money.
Facts:
1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)
Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.
Facts:
1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)
Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.
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Hyperion
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Dude, the State of India is not very Muslim "loving" state, or is it? All the indicators point to what I mentioned. I maybe wrong though.
*Not Isreal. Why would India hate Israel?
*Not Isreal. Why would India hate Israel?
Abingdonboy
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Nice work again @Rikbo!
A couple more Qs- if that's okay!
Given your claim the S-70B is a more customisable platform- would the IN then struggle to get their desired Indian/Israeli orign tech onto the Mh-60R as a result?
Addtionally which platform would you say had a healthier road map wrt upgrades and refinements? As the USN/USG is fully behind the Romeo and Sierra with 150+ on order for the USN alone and with orders from the Aussies and Danish there is serious momnet behind this platform. Whilst the S-70B does have a healthy order book it has to say the Mh-60 is just ahead purely because of the USN.
With the USN in board and operating such a huge fleet there is the certainty of successive upgrades and advanmcnets and whatever LM devlops for the USN's MH-60Rs can be applied to other MH-60Rs in use around the world.
If you can remember which helo is being churned out in at the greater annual rate? As do some research on former orders and delivery rates one gets the impression the production rates for both are pretty low and on average it looks like it takes 4 years from signing and ordering the helo to first delivery. IIRC the IN mandates a 36 month contract to delivery schedule- could either realistically comply with this demand? And would is be wrong in assuming the MH-60R has a higher production rate than the S-70B.
Additionally wrt training would the IN have an easier time with the MH-60R as their are already pretty strong military-military ties with the Indian and US militaries especial wrt the IN and USN. However the S-70B is not operated by anyone who the IN would look to be trained by.
I'd assume both platforms come with similar full mission simulators?
And which is the cheaper (unit cost) platform?
Would India's refuel to sign the CISMOA,LSA and other deals impact either helo wrt omitted tech for Indian use, a that seriously?
A couple more Qs- if that's okay!
Given your claim the S-70B is a more customisable platform- would the IN then struggle to get their desired Indian/Israeli orign tech onto the Mh-60R as a result?
Addtionally which platform would you say had a healthier road map wrt upgrades and refinements? As the USN/USG is fully behind the Romeo and Sierra with 150+ on order for the USN alone and with orders from the Aussies and Danish there is serious momnet behind this platform. Whilst the S-70B does have a healthy order book it has to say the Mh-60 is just ahead purely because of the USN.
With the USN in board and operating such a huge fleet there is the certainty of successive upgrades and advanmcnets and whatever LM devlops for the USN's MH-60Rs can be applied to other MH-60Rs in use around the world.
If you can remember which helo is being churned out in at the greater annual rate? As do some research on former orders and delivery rates one gets the impression the production rates for both are pretty low and on average it looks like it takes 4 years from signing and ordering the helo to first delivery. IIRC the IN mandates a 36 month contract to delivery schedule- could either realistically comply with this demand? And would is be wrong in assuming the MH-60R has a higher production rate than the S-70B.
Additionally wrt training would the IN have an easier time with the MH-60R as their are already pretty strong military-military ties with the Indian and US militaries especial wrt the IN and USN. However the S-70B is not operated by anyone who the IN would look to be trained by.
I'd assume both platforms come with similar full mission simulators?
And which is the cheaper (unit cost) platform?
Would India's refuel to sign the CISMOA,LSA and other deals impact either helo wrt omitted tech for Indian use, a that seriously?
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rashtriya.rifles
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Absolutely right on that one.. we just love to kill muslims in droves.. but I think we need to hone our skills big time.. their population is increasing and is now almost 20% of India's total population..
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