Aero India 2013

[KRAIT]

Mate, I know, and I know that you know. I was just trying to educate some other Indian friends.
I know a dozen other stories, where our guys met your guys at the middle-mans place in Dubai.

I know, that you know, that I know. that you know.

Sometimes to convey message to Indians, one has to talk to Pakistanis. That's the only way they listen sometimes.

BTW do tell about these stories in some thread. Would be great to know what average Joe don't know.

 

[Hyperion]

Of course it doesn't. Reason is that now you have access to all the tech (open channel). We are the baddyz at the moment. Doesn't matter actually, we have got everything that we needed anyways. We have a few bottle-necks on couple of projects, which we are 'sourcing/sorting'.

Sir, this makes sense as back then both nations were under extreme sanctions. Nowadays this practice on the Indian side doesn't exist.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Here is Vishnu Som's report on Aero India 2013. Was eagerly waiting...

Catch the stars of Aero India 2013 Video: NDTV.com

 

[Hyperion]

LOL.. will do.

I know, that you know, that I know. that you know.

Sometimes to convey message to Indians, one has to talk to Pakistanis. That's the only way they listen sometimes.

BTW do tell about these stories in some thread. Would be great to know what average Joe don't know.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

Dude, no one wants to kill anyone in droves. What I was pointing out is that, there is no love lost for the subjugated Muslims of Palestine, by the Indian State. If India were such a Muslim loving country, why would it be dealing with an apartheid state in the first place?

I am no lover of the Palestinians, however, don't try to take the moral high-ground on this issue and pretend otherwise. Be truthful and straightforward.

1. The reason why most muslims everywhere are seen with somewhat suspicious angle is because they prefer to stay among themselves.. Even if they hang out with you, they will always prefer to have some muslim friend ( even if he might be total a$$$hole ). They will always try to be dodgy when asked what all they have been doing off late.. ( it is not as if people are asking if they are making bombs but many small things like going to morning prayers also they will make a fuss about it and wont tell you ... like WTF ?) They just try to make a big deal about anything related to their religion. ( I have met many brahmins also who try to make a big deal about their brahmin traditions in villages.. They are equally obnoxious ).
Anyways, this point is almost offtopic..

2. Who said Israel is apartheid ? THey have superior tech and the entire world knows it. No big deal if we are purchasing it.. We are not going out of our way to lend them diplomatic support against muslims or Middle-East countries.. Our friendship with Qatar/Barain/Saudi are testimony to how we are handling this issue..
We want to purchase top line products and israel are selling it and we are paying for it.. PURE BUSINESS !

 

[Azazel]

Dude, no one wants to kill anyone in droves. What I was pointing out is that, there is no love lost for the subjugated Muslims of Palestine, by the Indian State. If India were such a Muslim loving country, why would it be dealing with an apartheid state in the first place?

I am no lover of the Palestinians, however, don't try to take the moral high-ground on this issue and pretend otherwise. Be truthful and straightforward.

Commercial and military interests.Israel can offer us many key military and civilian technologies that many others can't at an affordable cost.This has nothing to do with Muslims,Just because Israel's conflict with Arab world we can't overlook the fact that Israel is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world.

 

[Rikbo]

Abingdonboy,
OK.. Let me see what I can do to answer your questions.
1. As far as integration of foreign or new equipment into the aircrafts avionics/mission system, for the 60R, I cannot say as Lockheed is just beginning to perform this activity on the first few foreign customers. So, time will tell.
2. As far as production quantities and future upgrades, that would heavily favor the 60R given as you noted, its USN backing and commitment. The S-70B has minimal existing contacts and upgrades are primarily driven by obsolescence issues or customer unique requirements. Any USN navy upgrades to the baseline 60R aircraft would have to go through the export approval process before being made available to any foreign customers. Given existing outstanding orders for the 60R (60S production is coming to an end in the near future unless additional aircraft are ordered), production rate would also favor the 60R for the baseline aircraft.
3. Either aircraft should be able to be delivered in a 36 month timeframe. What will drive cost & schedule are any required changes or additions to the baseline aircraft to meet the customers requirements, which will be different for the 70B & 60R. I believe Sikorsky and the S-70B are more capable of delivering a compliant well designed overall aircraft in the required timeframe and at a lower cost.
4. Here is where I believe the S-70B shines, it's mission and avionics system. The 4 MFD glass cockpit architecture was designed to facilitate operator interface providing both keyboard and a windows like graphical user interface that provides the operators with great flexibility in how to use and interact with the missions system and its subsystems. Many operations can be performed via the Control Display Unit (CDU) keyboard as well as using the Multi Slew Controller (MSC) that provides a point and click type of operation via the MFD displays. Consequently, I believe training & ease of use would greatly favor the S-70B. The Sikorsky training group that employs, pilots, operators, Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) & others does an excellent job in training the customer in every aspect of how to use and maintain the aircraft and its systems. This training & support is as good or better than what is offered for the 60R.
5. Full mission simulators are, I believe, available for both aircraft and are often contracted out to a third party the specializes in simulator development. I have no real data on this to give you specifics.
6. The S-70B has typically been the lower cost platform to acquire for many of the previous reasons already cited. Whether that will hold true on future proposals is yet to be determined.
7. As far as signing CISMOA/LSA, not sure what those are but the 70B already has export approval for the baseline aircraft & its systems because of the ongoing international sales. 60R is just getting into the international game so time will tell, no reason not to think (for both aircraft) that prior agreeing to an aircraft configuration and signing a contract the necessary approvals would be in place or in process.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Thanks again @Rikbo!

So, you do belive the S-70B has a more limited future "road-map" then? As such would the IN have to look to get its own upgrades based on its own thinking and research and not based on work by the USN. This isn't the end of the world, the IN has plenty of experince in identifying and then spelling out its needs for upgrades of certain systems.

+ would I be wrong in thinking the S-70B has slightly less range and slightly less useful load capability to the MH-60R?

And in terms of offsets, do you believe India would get a better deal from Sikorsky with the S-70B alone or from a combination of Sikorsky and LM for the MH-60R?


In the context of the entire N-MRH competion, if the S-70B came out as the winner you would think the IN had made the right choice then?

 

[Rikbo]

No problem @Abingdonboy!
As far as a future road map, S-70B would depend on Sikorsky winning future proposals vs. an existing an on going production contract for the 60R. For existing customers, Sikorsky can & does bid on any upgrades to the S-70B and has been doing it for over 20 years. That's one of the great things the 70B team has going for it is an aircraft designed with the ability for modification in mind and the experienced staff to execute it. Sikorsky customer support of the 70B will always be there to help them with their aircraft.The USN does not have anything to do with the 70B, it only supports the 60R. Don't believe it has any less range or performance than the 60R for a similarly equipped mission payload. Given what I have previously said and the fact that it has already been published that a co-production agreement in India is possible for the 70B if the orders are sufficient is very possible, makes me believe the 70B can offer a lower overall platform cost and address the significant offset requirements that are likely required for either proposal. For MRH or N-MRH, I believe the the 70B is the best available choice.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Water Car Engineer]

6 NAGs for the enemy!

 

[Star Wars]

THE SHOW WAS BLOODY AWESOME !!!... I WAS THERE...the thunder of the fighters afterburner exhaust,the beasts flying around..FUKCING AWESOME....uploading pics...now

 

[Star Wars]

(2 of the Russian Knights Pilots)

 

[Star Wars]

 

[Vasily Zaytsev]

Buddy, I most definitely don't need any Burnol, however, you on the other hand are in desperate need of Prozac. Take it, and rest. It takes sometime to take effect.

Nope Prozac is outdated ... 2 pegs of Rum do it much faster !!!

See ... u really don't know about our indigenous capabilities.

So .... come back when u have your own "indigenous" anything .... till then use burnol, cold ice or whatever "indigenous" u have !!!