AERO INDIA 2009

[Zaheerkhan]

Wow, thats quite a shopping list.... and the items keep adding to the menu... great time for the customer..Now, officially India is the biggest market for everybody...the whole world seems to be in Bangalore for the Aero India.

 

[macintosh]

Russia Fights Increased Competition in India
U.S., Israel make inroads in market once dominated by Russia
By wendell minnick
Published: 13 Feb 06:50 EST (11:50 GMT)



India procured its first Russian fighter, the MiG-21, in 1962, and over the years procured the MiG-23, MiG-25RB/MF and MiG-29. Russia is currently engaged in a modernization of the MiG-29 and delivering the MiG-29K for the Indian Navy, said Mikhail Pogosyan, first vice president, United Aircraft Corp.

Russia Fights Increased Competition in India - Aero India - 2009

India never had any MIG-21 in 1962 that says a lot about the knowledge of wendell minnick .

 

[XYON]

But, they look Kick ***... Love the way it is..

Whatever turns you on dude! though I have most certainly seen better and more lethal & spiffy looking military spec op boys here in Pakistan! Come on over sometime, we'll give you a peek!

 

[zombie:-)]

hello

yesterday i had been to yelahanka the areal display was breath taking as usual ef-2000 is too good ...
got to see the mi-35 and the mig 29 so close for the first time mirage jags and the su-30 were usuals .luftwaffe guys camo dress was good and found a HUGE guy named michael schumacher he was quiet friendly..

GTRE guys were distributing calenders rather than answering questions .they dont have SC tech and no one not even our dear russee guys are willing to part with it ... they have no idea what to do they said 1500 test hours had been logged .he was quiet surprised when i started questioning about the kabini core and SC tech he asked weather my parents were from GTRE.no idea abt any JV..

BRAHMOS guys ver doing good he said that GPS story was bull **** and surprisingly the range of the CM was controlled by software irrespective of the payload.not gonna see it on ATV and future plans of being integrated on very small boats in the inclined version .it is only gonna be fitted on thee centerline pylons and not on the wings as advertised before it is gonna hve the same warhead and the range but weighs 2500kgs or 500 kgs less than the previous versions and we might not see it bieng inducted anytime sooner than 2012 end ... but they have all the designs ready... they just have to start after the planes arrive .the navy has not given any platforms (subs) to the team for underwater integration ...it is still a dream

LCH there was a lady but it was good coz she answered a lot of questions
first flight sep 2009 its final. INDIAN COMPONENTS the blades are being built here earlier it was germany some navigation systems and the fuselage.the shakti engine is ready .incidentally i asked her what was the role model or the bench mark for LCH she said APACHE i was literally laughing i said AH-1s COBRA WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER ...she said that there was no role model or benchmark as such the AF gave them set of targets they had to meet like the range service ceiling etc..... she had no idea abt the kind of weapons i asked abt countermeasures like the exhaust suppressor the IR JAMMER etc she said they were being developed .0% RUSSIAN CONTENT hurray

MRTA guys were a bit cocky but it is still in the womb he said it is also targeted for the civilian market ...again i was laughing civilian certification for a Russian MILITARY design we have to wait for 20 more years ..he said it is no difficult task and there is a lot of demand in the domestic industry.

RAC-MIG .there were a couple of young guys (KIDS) at the stall i asked the reason for the price rise he said IT WAS A CONFIDENTIAL MATTER i was literlly laughing again he was rally embarrassed and said his senior would come in 20 mins come later ...after 20 mins there was a mature guy he said it was either due to more tech...i denied that flatly .later he said it must be due to fall in the stock market ..it was no use asking them and about the radar and 600 odd TRM which was to be raised by now has not been done yet coz the whole setup must be literaly pushed back to get more area for stuffing TRMs .the new FIFTH GENERATION OLS SYSTEM has a detection range of 30 odd kms for missiles 10 kms for manpad launches i asked what is the use in air to air combat other than detection he said it allowes other means of tracking enemy aircraft witout using the radar and BEING UNDETECTABLE ,i said enemy radar would have already seen us by 100 kms he got moped again he got my email id and said would get in touch with me later his close relative was supposed to be working on that...lets see what happens
again got lots of goodies from him


gripen guys are ready for any thing russian american french south african you name it they will integrate it for you.they were really friendly .GRIPENs main stategy was that it could be operated from highways they have really good roads so incase their airbases are bombed they can use their butter smooth highways

rolls roys are offering a really good deal on the ej200 for the LCA and currently comparative studies are going on by a person called RAO so the results must be out soon

RAYTHEON guys have some really cool stuffs on offer if the amreeki planes are selected .it is simply topclass .

LM guys were idiotic a black guy was standing ,if ii asked any question about the differences btween Blk 60 and 70 he would simply take out the brochure and read it for me a complete asshole

RAFAEL had some cool toys LITENING 3 and some other stuff

eads was also cool ,rafale stall was bit empty and all the guys were out but not girls

finally while going out saw both the shornets ,f-16 blk 60s (UAE) and a EF-2000 going out for a sortie at 5 pm wonder where prolly they were taking IAF guys for a ride the f-16 guy was really cool ,shortly after take off he went vertical and did a roll and recovered

and the crowd as well as the security as HUGE

 

[EagleEyes]

LM guys were idiotic a black guy was standing ,if ii asked any question about the differences btween Blk 60 and 70 he would simply take out the brochure and read it for me a complete asshole

What is the difference? Nothing?

 

[zombie:-)]

What is the difference? Nothing?

what is the point of him being there they could just put up enlarged brochures for us to read at lest they could save some bucks instead of bringing him here and putting him in a 5* hotel

people at these stalls are meant for interacting with the public not asking them to wait for some time so that he can search the answers and read it for them

OO These amreeki baabus might be thinking poor Indians cant read English they are able to understand English(with great difficulties ) after some one reads it to them (just shooting the guy not the flag)

all others were fine he was totally shitty

 

[tyagi]

dude any pic

 

[ejaz007]

India never had any MIG-21 in 1962 that says a lot about the knowledge of wendell minnick .

I think the writer meant to say that India ordered Mig-21 in 1962. If this is the case then he is right.

If he meant to say they were in service with IAF in 1962 then he is wrong.

 

[ejaz007]

F-16IN suffer tyre blow outs during Aero India

February 15, 2009 (by Asif Shamim) - Two tyres on the F-16IN demonstrator jet blew out after landing after displaying on the final day of the Aero India International air show. No one was reported injured.

UAEAF F-16F block 60 #3009 is buzzing by the lens at Aero India. The aircraft is used by Lockheed as demonstration aircraft for the Indian F-16IN tender for 126 multi-role aircraft. Note the 'F-16IN' markings on the tail base. "Both the left and right rear tyres burst one after the other due to heat and friction," F-16 test pilot Paul Randall told reporters after the incident at the airshow.

"An indication that the right tyre was going to burst before landing was shown on the flight control panel before the landing," Randell said.

Lockheed Martin which is aiming to sell 126 F-16INs to India reported that accident did not disrupt the proceedings on the final day of the show. "The tyres was changed within 30 minutes, which is a perfect example of this aircraft's maintainability," the company said.

The F-16IN, a UAEAF Block 60 marked up by the company as a demonstrator was the same jet in which Indian sportsman Abhinav Bindra had taken a backseat ride in.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article3279.html

 

[LCA]

Details on the Rustom:

1. The engines are Rotax engines - similar to the ones used in the Hansa.. higher power.. The requirement of two engines comes for the Take-off condition.. in cruise condition the full thrust/power of the engines is necessary and will work at the most efficient/optimum condition..

Engines develop 120hp, 128Nm @ 5800RPM 4CYLINDER 4stroke engine

2. Ceieling ~ 35000ft.. Endurance > 24hrs.. Datalink has 250km LOS range and 350km with relay.. The link is same as the one used in Nishant - can transmit realtime video etc.. The range different of the link - 160km for Nishant and 250km for rustom is due to difference in tracking... Single axis tracking for Rustom and two-axis tracking for Nishant..

3. 350kg payload capacity.. any of these can be used -- ElOp, SAR, Maritime radar, Daylight TV, FLIR etc..

4. 1800kg total weight - 350kg payload, 100kg fuel.. 20m wing span, 14m fuselage length

(if you compare Hansa brochure - 85kgs fuel has 4hr endurance which means 20kgs/hr.. here two engines works out to 40kgs/hr which works out to 25hrs of endurance.. but at cruise conditions the engine on Rustom is likely to comsume lesser fuel - so the endurance is likely to significantly higher than 25hrs)

5. The T-tail is because of the need to house ESM/CSM antennas on the tips of the T -- you can see three vertical pieces on each tip, which are the CSM/ESM antennas.. the need to perch them without interference has ruledout a Y-tail.

The tail portion - both horizontal and vertical does not haave any fuel.. this is becuase there is too much CG shift if the fuel is loaded there.. so fuel is loaded only in wing and fuselage.

6. The full tail is madeout of GFRP - so no need to worry about the tail spoiling the RCS signature.. and anyway service cieling is high enough to evade detection by ground based radars.. for Airborne radars also not a problem because the body is made fully composite.

7. 3years to first flight.. right now they are qualifying a lot of subsystems on the unmanned version of LCRA - which is ready to fly.

8. There is a little bit of details missing from the full-scale model displayed at AeroIndia09 -- the hardpoints on the wings.
There is provision for 2hard points under each wing.

 

[LCA]

MBDA Mistral missile on WSI Dhruv:

 

[LCA]

Some information on Mistral:

Mistral missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nitesh]

Thanks to Dr. Shiv from BR

 

[LCA]

Here is some information about Dhruv by user K prasad from BR.
He got this information fron AERO-INDIA 09

------------------------------------------------------------
AeroSeminar talk by Dr. Prasad Sampath, HAL Chief Designer of the Rotary Wing R&D Centre (RWR&D Centre).

Please forgive if a lot of this info was already in public... just recapping and adding in full, in case there are some new tidbits.

HAL Heli division started in 1970 in HAL Barrackpore (now is located in Bangalore only). It has first produced Alouettes and Lamas under license. It has since produced 347 Chetaks, 275 Cheetahs under license, of which 395 are in service now.

The breakup of active Helos are

Cheetah - 45 IAF + 127 Army = Total 172
Chetak - 87 IAF + 55 Army + 64 Navy + 17 Coast Guard = Total 223

The Cheetah was re-engined with the Turbomeca TM3332B in 2001, called the cheetal and set the world record of 25150 ft on Nov 04. Based on the success of that program, the Navy asked for reengining of the Chetaks, called Chetans.

Coming to the ALH, the project was launched with MBB as consultants. The design was initially a single engine, but later became a twin engine based on changed force requirements.

PV1 flew = August 1992.
Military certification = 2001
Civil Certification (DGCA) = 2002

The features of the ALH are:
- Multi-role, multi-misison
- All weather op
- FADEC control
- Hingeless main rotor and Bearingless tail rotor - the main rotor is the stiffest in existance today, which gives the ALH superb maneuverability and lot of lift, as the Sarangs demonstrate {{with teh LCH also sharing the rotor, imagine the possibilities}}

Hot Weather Trials - Jodhpur
Hot & Cold Weather Trials - Leh, Sarsawa, Manasbal

Ferry ranges of over 2000 km have been achieved (I guess this was with staging, but it demonstrates the Dhruv's long endurance and low maintenance capability):

Bangalore - leh = 2345 km
In South America, from Santiego, they travelled OVER 3000 km, over high altitudes, and across the mountainous terrain, with no glitches and faults. The South Americans were highly impressed.

Right now, the Dhruvs are in service with -

PV = 5 nos
Military = 74 nos = 40 Army + 22 AF + 8 IN
RNA (Nepal) = 3 nos
Ecuador = 2 nos (the remaining 5 were delivered in AI)
Civilian Operators = 6 nos

There are currently 5 tranches - PV, Mk1 to Mk4.

Mk4 is the WSI Dhruv.

PV -

- 5 nos in operation
- Conventional cockpit
- TM 333 2B1 engine (648 kW power)
- Vibration reduction using ARIS (Active Resonance Isolation System)

Mk 1

- 56 in service
- Conventional cockpit
- TM 333 2B2 engine (705 kW)

Mk2:

- Glass Cockpit (Basic)
- 17 in service
- TM 333 2B2 engine

- Mk 1 and Mk2 had both ARIS + FRAHM vibration reduction. FRAHM is an active vibration cancellation system, and was sourced from Lourds Corp, USA (I hope the spelling is correct - may be wrong though).
- Mk.2 onwards also had a vibration monitoring system, in order for the FRAHM to work. Mk2 had a Mk.1 VMS.

Mk3:

- Glass Cockpit (Advanced, with Israeli Avionics)
- 17 in service
- 3 more are planned for induction in the 08-09 period
- Shakti Engine (871 kW)

Prasad Sampath mentioned that one Dhruv was coming in directly from Leh to Bangalore to take part in the Air show, and would be flying down - another indicator of the ruggedness of the machine.

Mk4:

- This is the WSI Dhruv
- Has a full glass cockpit
- None in service yet, but 159 are planned for induction in the 09-10 period.
- Shakti engine.

- Mk 3 and WSI have an ARIS + AVCS vibration reduction

AVCS = Active Vibration Control System

It(AVCS) is an indigenously developed system, and is better than the FRAHM from US. It has been successfully trialled, and is now flight qualified.

Along with the AVCS, Mk3 and 4 have a new, upgraded Mk.2 VMS which is being currently tuned for flight operations.

The 2nd generation AVCS is almost done (I dont remember if it has been integrated already). The advantages over the 1st gen are:

- reduced wt from 80 kg to 55 kg
- Expandable
- fault tolerant
- Robust to EMI

It consists of
- Biaxial force generators (for the active cancellation) - 7 are used on the helo - #2 below the nose, and #7 close to the rotor.
- Sensors (Accelerometers)
- System Controller
- Wiring Harness
- Power supply.

The WSI Dhruv will have the following weapons suite:
- ATAM
- Rocket Pod
- 20 mm Nexter turret gun
- A2G missile
- ATGMs

As of now, the Gun and Rockets have been fired (a video was shown)... they were very worried that the gun would cause excess recoil and vibrations, but wonder of wonders, when the gun fired, there was almost zero recoil, and nothing was felt in the cockpit (the video also showed this, and the helo was completely steady).

Gun trials were conducted in Sep 08 in Nasik.
Rockets were fired at ITR Chandipur in Nov 08

Other systems include:
- Datalink (will be added)
- HPS (Helmet)
- An EO pod (Has been tested)
- EW suite (tested successfully)

As of now, it is clear that the non-WSI dhruv may end, since the forces have ordered large numbers of WSI dhruvs, and less Mk3 dhruvs. However, the Mk3 will definitely have foreign sales.

Asked about sales to Burma, he said there was no confirmation, and he wasn't aware of any such offer... got very worried if i was a journo or what.

Asked if they were looking for an mmW sensor, he said that that was not on their radars at the moment, but would look at it if the forces asked for one.... he did mention that the tech had to be developed for that first.

 

[LCA]

Continuation from above post............

LCH:

- Prototype being built - will fly mid-late this year.
- Dedicated Anti-tank role.
- 5.5 ton class MTOW
- Max speed 275 kph
- 12.0 m/s max oblique rate of climb
- 550 km range
- 6.5 km ceiling

Weapons:

- 20 mm NEXTER Cannon
- 70 mm rocket pod (both the above have been tested on the WSI Dhruv in late 08)
- A2A missiles
- A2 sea missiles
- ATGMs
- Iron/dumb bombs

The LCH stall guy mentioned that it would be able to carry around 1000 kg of armament at altitude (this was to an AF offr and family), but I'm not sure if that is correct. He didn't specify the altitude either.

Additionally, about Nag, there wasn't much talk, but he did say that when Helina came, they'd integrate it. Till then, it'd be the Mistral and the Israeli Lahat (did anyone notice 3 versions on Lahat in the Israeli stall - one, the normal, heli-launched, another 105 mm one, and the 120 mm launched version). More on Helina (only a little), when I upload about Saraswat's talk.

As known, the LCH will use the same elements as Dhruv, in a thinner fuselage - this made them have to look at the vibration aspects a bit more closely. They are currently tuning the AVCS for the LCH. The rotors will be the same, but the tail is strengthened against arms fire.... due to that, and the thicker tail, they had to make some weight adjustments. I think that this will make the empty LCH a bit heavier than the ALH.

Another thing is that the rear wheel does not retract... when I asked why this was, and wouldnt it increase the signature, the person at stall said that it was a tradeoff, and with the rotors behind, an extra wheel would make little difference to the RCS. Additionally, retracting wheel would require empty space in tail, which would only make the tail weaker against small arms fire.

Coming to sensors, as of now, they are not looking at putting the EO ball to see below the helo - the placement of the gun right at the front of the helo (unlike other helos, where it is below the cockpit) precludes this. When asked why the placement was as such, there was no reply. I also asked why not have a larger ball right at the tip of the nose, like on teh Apache, and he mentioned some vague thing about requirements and design compromises being required... I guess he didn't have an idea. Any luck on this Rakall??

They aren't looking at a mmW sensor just yet - remember that the Apache latest has two such sensors, one at the front nose, and another on top of the rotor. This allows them all-weather long range targeting. However, we do have some success with mmW radars, and a bit of work with such seekers. However, without having a fieldable mmW seeker equipped weapon, having such a sensor right now might be overkill.

Light Utility Helo:

- Not much info abut this, but prelim design is going on.
- It will be 2-3 tons. IAF and Army is still formalizing the ASR.
- It will have a 4 blade hingeless rotor. Unlike the ALH, this will be less rigid, perhaps due to the vibration issue
- 2 blade composite tail rotor - the composite tail rotor, i believe, is being attempted for the first time in India, and they are trying to see how it will hold up.
- It will be powered by a single Shakti engine.

I asked the HAL person if they were looking at creating a Recon helo based on this platform, like the Bell ARC. He said that they could do that if the services asked. However, even the ALH took some time to mature from Mk1 to WSI, so a weaponized recon version would be sometime after the helo was in the air. But it wouldn't be difficult to replace the payload capacity with sensors.

No projected numbers were given - I guess the numbers haven't been finalized.

NRUAV:

They are still discussing the terms of the JV and the projected configuration, but this is one project that the Navy is extremely interested in.

The NRUAV will be powered by the Turbomeca TM 33 2M2 engine.

Sensors will be the whole kit-and-caboodle. They are also looking at seeing if they can weaponize it with torpedos, but that is for later...

What the NRUAV will do is give all Naval ships, even small ones the capability of undertaking AS(W?) operations, which will give greater situational awareness to Naval commanders.


Indian Multi-role Helo (IMRH):

Anyway, it is still being conceptualized, but will be a successor to the Mi-8 and Mi-17s, which is the void they want to fulfil.... they are also looking to try and pitch for Naval service also, given that the ALH was insufficient due to its weight class.

- 10 ton class (12 tons was what I think the board at AI had put up)
- 390 nos requirement have been planned for.
- It will have a 3.5 ton payload at sea level.
- They want to give it as far as possible, equal high altitude performance as the Dhruv, but will know about it only when they start actual work.

Right now, it hasn't been sanctioned yet (same with the LUH), so any concept designs are just to satisfy the Forces projected requirements. They are looking at first flight within 3 years of go-ahead being given, and IOC with 6 years of that.

Overall, the impression got is that we have definitely reached a level, where the ALH has given us a technological platform to build Helos of all types... future helos will use a lo o technology from the ALH. The Shakti has been a great success for teh program, and has given a durable, high power platform. However, they need to amortize a lot of the tehcnology in the engine manufacture to be able to develop a similar engine ourselves. Also, given the lag in high technology areas, we need to be able to catch up in some technologies to be able to compete with the best in the world. However, right now, we are quite competent, and are giving Bell and Co some jitters.

Wrt Avionics, a lot of it is coming from Israel, and they are trying for JVs, and work from DARE to be able to make it ourselves.

To a question about whether we were looking at Fly-by-wire for helicopters, Dr. Sampath mentioned that they were nor really needed due to the weight advantages being minimal... the fact is that a helo is an essentially unstable platform, and FBW will not add any extra advantages that way.

Dhruv does have 12.7 mm resistance, in the form of composite and Kevlar armor . I think this has been quite satisfactory. If need be, they can add some extra armor, but it would add more weight, which would make the WSI lumber along, which would only increase the risk. So it is a tradeoff..

However, the LCH will have much more protection, in the form of armored plates for the pilots, and heavy duty protective glass. Another area to note is that the designers have also tried to add the same protection for all areas. Its little use of armoring the pilots when your tail is as vulnerable as tissue paper (Mi-25 and Apache had this problem), so they are looking at armoring these areas also.


Another thing i forgot to add to the previous post, while only 3 Mk3s are planned for 08-09 period, over 159 Mk4 WSIs are planned for the 2009-10 period. This suggests that the Armed forces are giving much more importance to the helo's lethality. I'm not certain about the prudence of this move, but what i do suspect is that they are looking at getting more flexibility by having combat ready platforms, which can be armed if required, rather than be stuck with bullet catchers without any way to react to threats.... however, given that they will continue to have the turret gun, I'm not sure how they can handle it...