Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018

[Kompromat]

That early.I think the time frame is after 2025 and almost nearer to 2030.Technology needed that much

India might go for a partnership.

 

[sathya]

Partnership With JAPAN, is

 

[PARIKRAMA]

i don know why all members who believe the words of few DRDO ppl go overboard with enthusiasm.. IF they do it great, if they dont we all will say we already knew tht .............

The point i made earlier, i still stand by it.. at 42.5 squadrons or even if we plan say 50 sqdrns.. assuming the birds role wise, a medium class wud comprise of how many sqdrns? if rafale is ordered 126+63=189 with rumoured 63 being follow on and we use 16 birds per squadron then its almost 12, LCA Mk 1 and Mk 2 say 200 birds means another 12, FGFA say 10-12 squadrons and su 30 MKI of 272 means 17 so 12+12+10+17=51.. agreed they wud replace some birds but yet Mirages wud be there for some time so wud be some more birds..these numbers are just my own estimates to make myself believe the so called gap where i can fit AMCA

The above makes me feel where we will fit AMCA.. if the idea is to have a downsize FGFA by cutting from heavier to medium and incorporating such tech that makes it 5th Generation, then pls advise whats the role being envisioned for such a bird... if the argument is AMCA will offer cheaper alternative, pls advise how the cheapness would occur when most of things we don develop in house rather we shop and assemble..

Lastly, pls advise what is the role of a stealth 5th generation aircraft you all see for India... if the role is covered by FGFA then why the heck we need to plan for AMCA..

THE AMCA was an option we shud have thot 10-15 years back when we started MMRCA.. if we wake up now, then pls its already too late.. and the platform in that category does nt require 5G needs... what Rafale has is more than enuf for IAF requirements with proven technology not on paper but in reality

 

[SrNair]

India might go for a partnership.

FGFA already there.So I dont think India may consider another fighter program with foreign partnership.

 

[sathya]

Are you suggesting that We shouldn't get into medium and heavy category level ? Because we are planning to buy overseas ?

 

[faithfulguy]

I AMCA TD come out that early. However, I can see that LCA MKII be close to ready by that time frame. India should put all its resources in LCA MKII and get it ready instead of getting distracted by some other project.

 

[sancho]

There is nothing wrong in being optimistic

True, but there is a huge difference in being optimistic and just dreaming!

 

[bloo]

Yeah right..........
If I poop gold tomorrow morning maybe then it'll be ready by 2018.
I can believe Tejas FOC by the end of this year and AMCA maybe by 2025-26, but this is just hoping against hope.
I hope I'm underestimating DRDO, but most probably I'm not.

 

[sathya]

True, but there is a huge difference in being optimistic and just dreaming!

I felt disappointed waiting long time for LCA
I am certain AMCA, won't take long.
This time dream will become real sooner..

I see horizontal growth in upgrade of Lca and vertical in AMCA. both can be done together .

 

[Lil Mathew]

The main issue as I always say is the requirement! IAF don't need another fighter with the same or less capabilties of FGFA and in the same class and roles of Rafale. That's where AMCA fails as an idea from the start.

Here the main issue is not requirement , indigenous development...
Addressing the next-generation fighter issue, Air Marshall Norman Anil Kumar Browne, the Indian air force chief of staff, declined to compare the AMCA and FGFA, but insisted that “homegrown” projects shall be continued, especially in the area of mission equipment and fighter engines, since “nobody will give us these technologies.”
Observees have suggested that, unlike the FGFA, the AMCA’s primary role will be ground attack, and so it will be a direct replacement to the MiG-27M and the Jaguar.

Indian ‘Home-Grown’ AMCA, An Alternative To FGFA | Aviation International News

Also India completely missed the basic design phase of FGFA....
India’s work share in FGFA research and development and other aspects of the multi-billion dollar project at the moment is only around 15%, even though New Delhi is bearing 50% of the cost. The total program is expected to cost India about 1.5 trillion rupees ($25 billion).

India Concerned About FGFA Work Share With Russia

The PDP also requires Sukhoi to hand over design documentation to HAL, providing it a detailed insight into the design processes of the PAK-FA. Since India took years to decide to join the FGFA project, HAL missed out the design phase entirely.But the most valuable learning, say HAL executives, would take place during the FGFA’s flight-testing. “Unlike the basic design phase which we missed out on, we will actually gain experience during flight testing. This phase throws up dozens of problems, and we will participate in resolving these, including through design changes,” says Agarwal.
Delays and challenges for Indo-Russian fighter | Business Standard

If we want to use russion techs in our fighters we want their permission.na????That is we want to develop our own fifth gen technologies for future generation development.
According to Dr. V.K Saraswat at Aerospace Forum in Sweden that last year said that advances on India's own stealth technology are largely centered on two efforts. The first is the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which would operate with a range of 400-600 km (249-373 mi.) between the Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (being developed with Russia), and the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The second is the notional Indian unmanned combat air vehicle development, which could take another 10-15 years. The AMCA is a 25-metric-ton-class, twin-engine fighter with an empty weight of around 18 metric tons and 2 hr. of endurance, featuring supercruise; thrust vector control; an active, electronically scanned array radar; and integrated modular avionics.
Many of these technologies could also find their way into the Light Combat Aircraft Mk. 3

Indian navy is mainly investing in this project.... Do we want a 5th gen carrier-borne fighter ?????

 

[PARIKRAMA]

““homegrown” projects shall be continued, especially in the area of mission equipment and fighter engines, since “nobody will give us these technologies.”

Pray please tell me do we have a proper fighter engine of our own.. our kaveri cant even power LCA optimally.. when he said that statement he meant that support for 100% in house is there from IAF not anythin else..

Observees have suggested that, unlike the FGFA, the AMCA’s primary role will be ground attack, and so it will be a direct replacement to the MiG-27M and the Jaguar.

if the observees are saying the role as replacement then these birds are phased out when .. between 2025-2030 or may be 2035 max... so why not go step by step,... first make engines m technology in complete form.. try and test it on LCA.. with single engine.. and then use 2 for AMCA.. whats the point of having a wind turrnet approved design with stealth tech capabilty when we don have the required tech within country to manufacture..

Indian navy is mainly investing in this project.... Do we want a 5th gen carrier-borne fighter ?????

Indian Navy atm needs a 5G bird? LOL where u want it for? IAC 1 or IAC2 or where? so u want a so called A2G role aircraft onboard a AC? SMH

 

[sancho]

I felt disappointed waiting long time for LCA
I am certain AMCA, won't take long.
This time dream will become real sooner..

I see horizontal growth in upgrade of Lca and vertical in AMCA. both can be done together .

I never felt disappointed by LCA as a project, no matter what problems we had, since it's crucial as a project for our aero industry, not as a fighter for the defence of the country. But I am disappointed and even angry about the way the project was done, that we wasted time and money for pride and that no manager or scientist was held accountable for the failures of the project.
Similarly, I have no issue if we go for a 5th gen fighter development, IF IT HAS A REAL REQUIREMENT! The industrial side is already covered by radar and avionic developments of future LCA versions and even more by FGFA co-development. The engine side must be covered by further developing Kaveri engine as a tech demo development, independent from any fighter developments. So unlike LCA, AMCA has no industrial importance for India and as I often said, ADA/DRDO went completely the wrong way by developing a fighter for IAF again, which has no operational requirement for it!
And developing AMCA will easily take as long as LCA, if we continue to make the same mistakes, not looking at base realities and just keep dreaming big.

 

[MilSpec]

I never felt disappointed by LCA as a project, no matter what problems we had, since it's crucial as a project for our aero industry, not as a fighter for the defence of the country. But I am disappointed and even angry about the way the project was done, that we wasted time and money for pride and that no manager or scientist was held accountable for the failures of the project.
Similarly, I have no issue if we go for a 5th gen fighter development, IF IT HAS A REAL REQUIREMENT! The industrial side is already covered by radar and avionic developments of future LCA versions and even more by FGFA co-development. The engine side must be covered by further developing Kaveri engine as a tech demo development, indepenant from any fighter developments. So unlike LCA, AMCA has no industrial importance for India and as I often said, ADA/DRDO went completely the wrong way by developing a fighter for IAF again, which has no operational requirement for it!
And developing AMCA will easily take as long as LCA, if we continue to make the same mistakes, not looking at base realities and just keep dreaming big.

I actually would have preferred if ada concentrated on a strategic aerial refueller, and medium lift aircraft instead of AMCA...

 

[sancho]

Here the main issue is not requirement , indigenous development...

Wrong, because we only need indigenous NG techs, not an indigenous NG fighter. Just like we only would need an N-LCA tech demonstrator (which we have right now), but we don't need a low capable N-LCA Mk2 which is only a big waste of money.
We already develop NG indigenous techs for LCA MK2 and future uprgades, we also do it with FGFA techs. We are involved in FGFA design/layout changes and already started developing indigenous stealth design for AURA UCAV. So neither for indigenous techs nor for indigenous stealth design, AMCA is needed and the air chief himself stated, "let them develop it and THEN we will see if it's 5th generation", which shows how much importance the fighter has for IAF, let alone how much confidence has in ADA/DRDO at this point (for good reasons).

Indian navy is mainly investing in this project.... Do we want a 5th gen carrier-borne fighter ?????

IN has not invested anything to AMCA, they showed interest in AMCA, since it is the only option for a medium class stealth fighter for them. But ALTHOUGH ADA admits that they underestimated the navalising of LCA and that it was a mistake to not develop the naval version first, they are doing the same nonsense again, by developing a fighter for IAF and later want to navalise it for IN, which screams delays, costoverruns and failure even today!

 

[Srinivas]

FGFA already there.So I dont think India may consider another fighter program with foreign partnership.

FGFA is a heavy class fighter, where as AMCA is a medium class fighter in the class of MMRCA.