Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018

[sancho]

According to some sources HAL is taking MIG 29 frame and upgrading to AMCA by incorporating stealth, Dassault tech, PAK FA tech
It is possible, It depends on the airframe, Flankers evolved into PAK-FA. Except the canards are removed and incorporated as frontal flaps of the wing

MIG 29 is a proven interceptor which can become Omni role combat aircraft with some changes.

Incorporating stealth is a relative term, LCA Mark 2 is a stealth aircraft!!

Oh boy

 

[PoKeMon]

Typical DRDO nonsense! We can be happy if they get LCA MK2 ready by then and they dream about a stealth fighter prototype by 2018, based on what they have "learned" and where they have failed in the LCA project? They are fooling themself and the public, nothing else.

If we assume they have the design ready, engine selected in M88 (along with rafale deal), why you think it will be tough to come up with first TD in 2018-19 timeframe?

Which part you believe would be hard to achieve in stipulated time?

 

[sancho]

As i understood, they are looking for an engine that can give AMCA supercruise speed (i.e. flying at supersonic without afterburner).

Options are very limited:

Snecma M88 (used in Dassault Rafale) === France
Pratt & Whitney F119 (used in F-22 Raptor) === USA
EJ200 (used in Eurofighter Typhoon) === France
AL-41 (developing for in FGFA / PAK FA) === Russia/India
General Electric F414G (used in Gripen NG) === USA

And you call that limited?

M88 - will be licence produced by HAL for Rafale, although a more powerful version would be needed for an AMCA
F414G - will be licence produced by HAL for LCA MK2, so using the production line for twin engine varients would be possible too
Type 30 - will be licence produced by HAL for FGFA, the most logical choice, since it comes comes with Supercruise and TVC features and would give commonality between IAFs 5th gen fighters, besides that it could reduce operational costs.

Not to mention the option DRDO might have in mind, Kaveri K10 engine! Either as a further development of the current K9 (which not even DRDO puts it's hope on), or a co-development based on M88 or F414 cores if possible.
The worst choice, since it requires more time, money and has the highest risks.

 

[Kompromat]

You are not able to develop LCA by now and you are talking about MCA man you seriously know how to waste money @Aeronaut

LCA has been a good experiment for India. AMCA around 2018 is a little too optimistic though.

 

[sancho]

If we assume they have the design ready, engine selected in M88 (along with rafale deal), why you think it will be tough to come up with first TD in 2018-19 timeframe?

Which part you believe would be hard to achieve in stipulated time?

They have no design ready, their concepts and models are changing all the time and that shows where the project stands at the moment, at CONCEPT STAGE.
The M88 of Rafale will not offer enough thrust for a heavier AMCA, either we can upgrade Kaveri based on the ToT of the M88, or in a co-development with Snecma, but none of these options will be available in the next 4-5 years. Even the F414G for LCA MK2 will be available only around next year and will be a a varient for single engine fighters and would need modifications for AMCA again (Type 30 engine would have to be modified for single engine fighters), so we will get useful engine possibly only around 2017/18, which than needs integration, ground testing and all done before the fighter would be read for a first flight. Not to mention that you need to decide for an engine first, before you can build the fighter around it and even that is far away today.

The main issue as I always say is the requirement! IAF don't need another fighter with the same or less capabilties of FGFA and in the same class and roles of Rafale. That's where AMCA fails as an idea from the start.

 

[SrNair]

LCA has been a good experiment for India. AMCA around 2018 is a little too optimistic though.

A TD can developed .but after that more than 10 prototype may needed for developing a workable version.

 

[Black Widow]

You are not able to develop LCA by now and you are talking about MCA man you seriously know how to waste money @Aeronaut

Sir @Zarvan , Thanks for consideration.. Thanks for worrying about INdian money

LCA has been a good experiment for India. AMCA around 2018 is a little too optimistic though.

I appreciate your views/post.

 

[Kompromat]

@sreekumar

Indeed, TD will give us a good idea about what to expect. I would predict the AMCA to be operational around 2023-24 window, if everything goes smooth.

 

[sathya]

There is nothing wrong in being optimistic

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Light Combat Aircraft took 30 years to develop...
Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft will probably take 40 years.....DRDO

 

[PoKeMon]

They have no design ready, their concepts and models are changing all the time and that shows where the project stands at the moment, at CONCEPT STAGE.
The M88 of Rafale will not offer enough thrust for a heavier AMCA, either we can upgrade Kaveri based on the ToT of the M88, or in a co-development with Snecma, but none of these options will be available in the next 4-5 years. Even the F414G for LCA MK2 will be available only around next year and will be a a varient for single engine fighters and would need modifications for AMCA again (Type 30 engine would have to be modified for single engine fighters), so we will get useful engine possibly only around 2017/18, which than needs integration, ground testing and all done before the fighter would be read for a first flight. Not to mention that you need to decide for an engine first, before you can build the fighter around it and even that is far away today.

The main issue as I always say is the requirement! IAF don't need another fighter with the same or less capabilties of FGFA and in the same class and roles of Rafale. That's where AMCA fails as an idea from the start.

Models and design can keep on changing and will keep on changing even after TD or prototype comes into picture.

I agree to your engine concern regarding low thrust Snecma M88 and kaveri, but F414 can certainly power much heavier AMCA. It already powers twin engine jets.

What will be the cost benefit in operating AMCA than operating FGFA? Also AMCA can take on air superiority role with Rafale more for SEAD mission. With new gen radars, Su 30 MKI with high RCS wont be a good bet in longer terms. AMCA in large number along with FGFA will be required.

 

[sathya]

With AMCA, we can get good % of 5 th G fighters in IAF

 

[SrNair]

@sreekumar

Indeed, TD will give us a good idea about what to expect. I would predict the AMCA to be operational around 2023-24 window, if everything goes smooth.

That early.I think the time frame is after 2025 and almost nearer to 2030.Technology needed that much

 

[Black Widow]

Light Combat Aircraft took 30 years to develop...
Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft will probably take 40 years.....DRDO

1990[edit]

• Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
• Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.

1993[edit]

• Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

1995[edit]

• First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

2013 : IOC-2 happened

20 years from scratch. not a bad deal...

 

[karan.1970]

1990[edit]

• Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
• Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.

1993[edit]

• Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

1995[edit]

• First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

2013 : IOC-2 happened

20 years from scratch. not a bad deal...

Bhains ke aage been bajane se koi fayeda nahin...


Disclaimer: Not calling anyone a bhains...Its an old saying...