Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018

[AUSTERLITZ]

Another faltu claim,they can't even do tejas mk 2 yet.

 

[Black Widow]

It is possible, It depends on the airframe, Flankers evolved into PAK-FA. Except the canards are removed and incorporated as frontal flaps of the wing.
The advantage of using already proven airframe is , 'flight control laws' can be tweaked to minimum which reduces the design time.
MIG 29 is a proven interceptor which can become Omni role combat aircraft with some changes.
Incorporating stealth is a relative term, LCA Mark 2 is a stealth aircraft!!

@Srinivas : I will suggest you to refer old @sancho and @gambit posts.. But my understanding says your idea will not work...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

It is possible, It depends on the airframe, Flankers evolved into PAK-FA. Except the canards are removed and incorporated as frontal flaps of the wing.

The advantage of using already proven airframe is , 'flight control laws' can be tweaked to minimum which reduces the design time.

MIG 29 is a proven interceptor which can become Omni role combat aircraft with some changes.

Incorporating stealth is a relative term, LCA Mark 2 is a stealth aircraft!!

The design of LCA along with use of composites already resulted in substantial smaller RCS.. but a fully loaded aircraft along with armaments is a differing case. The airframe of present LCA cannot handle the scope of twin engine which not only increases weight but is suppose to have super cruise ability. Thus the design has to evolve much more than what the present design of base as LCA is..... Also if we talk abt a internal weapon bay and a radius of say 1500 kms and range max reduelling of 2500 kms, the amount of internal fuel also has to increase sumstantially.. thus the challenges in size, design and accomodating such bigger and powerful engines means a total reworking of aircraft design right from scratch..

 

[Srinivas]

LCA Mark 2 is a single engine stealth Interceptor with AESA and other advanced tech. with increased range.

The design of LCA along with use of composites already resulted in substantial smaller RCS.. but a fully loaded aircraft along with armaments is a differing case. The airframe of present LCA cannot handle the scope of twin engine which not only increases weight but is suppose to have super cruise ability. Thus the design has to evolve much more than what the present design of base as LCA is..... Also if we talk abt a internal weapon bay and a radius of say 1500 kms and range max reduelling of 2500 kms, the amount of internal fuel also has to increase sumstantially.. thus the challenges in size, design and accomodating such bigger and powerful engines means a total reworking of aircraft design right from scratch..

 

[illuminatidinesh]

LCA Mark 2 is a single engine stealth Interceptor with AESA and other advanced tech. with increased range.

He confused your previous post for AMCA to LCA MK2.
And do u mean to say that we might look for Mig29 design? I thought the proposed AMCA model looks more of the F22 and FGFA model. Hell now days all 5th gen looks same

 

[Black Widow]

Can anybody pls tell me what kind of engine we are proposing for AMCA or even planning? do we intend to use AL 31 or its variants series.. In that case, do we mean to imply that super cruise technology will be based on imported engines like LCA depending on GE 404 or 414 engine kits? If we are saying our own engine, which one is that??

Is stealth the only feature required? hiding from radar surveillance - In DRDO terms that is low RCS.. or are we taking abt a internal weapons bay like PAKFA?

A medium class aircraft - how many are required for our operational purposes? this is to understand that rafale is also expected to be with us in close to 200 in numbers including the follow on order..

IAF will nvr remove light class.. LCA can be phased out with sumth else or later evolved versions of LCA but mark my words.. it will nvr remove that.. the utilisation benefits of a low cost light class bird is well documented within the operational strategy of IAF.

1. It may be GE414IN engine, Later Indian engine. Till date there is no plan for Russing engine. Kaveri will be improved to match new requirement (Todays Kavery is equivalent (doesn't mean equal) to GE404).

2. It will VLO with internal bay (That was the last IAF requirement). Unless Notorious IAF change its requirements, there is no change in design.

3. We need 42.5 Squadron (18-22 planes per Squad). I am not sure about how many will be light, medium or heavy class fighter. I will suggest some expert to shade light on it.

4. That was my view. May be you are right India will not phase out light weight fighter. Light weight fighter has many advantages, low price, low maintenance, less loading time etc.. I truly can't be sure about future.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

LCA Mark 2 is a single engine stealth Interceptor with AESA and other advanced tech. with increased range.

AMCA is quoted to have twin engines with super cruise hence my reply was that.. btw the class and category difference of both LCA MK2 and AMCA would come into play as their roles, range and work is different

 

[SwAggeR]

Is stealth the only feature required? hiding from radar surveillance - In DRDO terms that is low RCS.. or are we taking abt a internal weapons bay like PAKFA?

 

[SrNair]

I think after IOC of Tejas ADA and DRDO confidence is increased .Initial development always a problem ,but when work flow increased it always easy.May they can develop a TD in 2018 and like Tejas in 2001.But honestly I think they can develop an operational AMCA only after 2025 and nearer to 2030.

 

[Badbadman]

I think

Its very much possible.. India started working (actual work) on LCA in 1993 and TD1 was available in 1995, TD2 was available in 1998. In 5 years 2 TD can be made. Since we already have our LCA, we will take 10-12 year timeline to achieve IOC/FOC.

1993

• Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

1995

• First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

2001:
First flight of TD1
2013: IOC-2 was given
2014:
FoC expected

We'll if that's true then

Its very much possible.. India started working (actual work) on LCA in 1993 and TD1 was available in 1995, TD2 was available in 1998. In 5 years 2 TD can be made. Since we already have our LCA, we will take 10-12 year timeline to achieve IOC/FOC.

1993

• Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

1995

• First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

2001:
First flight of TD1
2013: IOC-2 was given
2014:
FoC expected

It means we can put jet from paper into metal quite quickly. Our defence establishment must realise the importance of time period to put the jet into air.
if i understand correct LCA mk1 would have been much more appropriate 5 to 10 years ago. Nevertheless it is still will become a descent asset as mk2.

 

[Black Widow]

@PARIKRAMA @Srinivas @illuminatidinesh @AUSTERLITZ
Lets conclude some thing
1. Any plane with external weapon loading will have front RCS 3m2 to 5m2, hence it can be detected from 50-200 Km range. So they can be low RCS plane but not stealth fighter plane.

2. For 5th gen fighter Supercruise without afterburner is mandatory. If you use afterburner you will be detetected and hence you will not qualify for VLO category.

3. If you transform LCA/JF17 into stealth by adding Internal weapon bay, it can carry only 2 AAMs. And trust me 2 AAMs are not enough to bring down a bogie..

I think

We'll if that's true then

It means we can put jet from paper into metal quite quickly. Our defence establishment must realise the importance of time period to put the jet into air.
if i understand correct LCA mk1 would have much more appropriate 5 to 10 years ago. Nevertheless it is still will become a descent asset as mk2.

I totally Agree with you. For LCA design, development and test phase is almost over, LCA will soon move to Maintenance phase. In maintenance phase, The client (IAF) will ask for new features which HAL/DRDO will deliver.

Its best time to start work on new project. They should club the requirement analysis and design phase together so that IAF will not crib at the beginning of development phase. The TD1 (Tech demonstrator/ prototype/proof of concept ) must be ready by 2017-18..

 

[SwAggeR]

@PARIKRAMA @Srinivas @illuminatidinesh @AUSTERLITZ
Lets conclude some thing
1. Any plane with external weapon loading will have front RCS 3m2 to 5m2, hence it can be detected from 50-200 Km range. So they can be low RCS plane

 

[Water Car Engineer]

They say 2018. So lets expect a TD-1 around 2020.

 

[SwAggeR]

I think DRDO is in last phases of drawing board phase on
AMCA. This is 18 month old pic of the serpentine intake.

SERPENTINE INTAKE

 

[Black Widow]

Bro I was replying to the posts where people assume that LCA can be turned into 5th gen fighter. AMCA concept is totally fifth gen fighter. The design will be as such only..

For those who don't know the features of 5th gen fighters

• Stealth
• High maneuverability - Which tends to include short-field capabilities. (supercruise without afterburner, thrust vectoring)
• Advanced avionics (AESAs , EW , )
• Networked data fusion from sensors and avionics
• Multirole capabilities