‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Sugarcane]

before we get into discussion about your first question and the Ayat you provided I just want you answer my simple question pls.


from where do you get to know how to practice your religion rituals?

for example; Wudu, Ghusl, Tayammum, Salat, Zakat, Hajj, Omrah

Being Arab you don't require any translation, instructions of Wudu, Ghusl, Salat etc. exist. I have quoted some in my previous post. You can check directly in Arabic.

Yes I do.


There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. Surah Al-Ahzab 22

Who is declining that - no doubt in that - But Hidths are account of different persons. There are reports that Imam Bukhari had total collection of more than 500K Hadiths but he included only 6,000 in his book means rest were suspected. So, we have to relay on Bukhari's judgement about the authenticity of Hadith. Same is the case with others.

 

[Indrajith]

The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to prophet Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether the Prophet compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an. The reason why Uthman gave this order is discussed further in the section below entitled "The Collection of the Qur'an".

Due to this order by Uthman, it has become difficult for scholars to look at the different manuscripts from before the canonization because no manuscripts remain and all that is left is varying accounts from different historians. Even though Uthman canonized the written Qur'an during his reign in 653-656, small diacritical variations still remained in the written Qur'an, which can be seen in the early manuscripts of the Umayyad and Abbasid Dynasties.[2]

 

[Dubious]

it never said there was a book "They compiled a collection & this copy was housed with Hafsa" - it didnt say a book already existed - if it did , then why should they compile & authenticate again

IN ARABIC the word is Al kittab....

You brought that para so you explain it

You are using a para from God knows where...to try to disprove that the Quran was already compiled?

 

[Sugarcane]

religion is side stepping "secularism" as the talking point.. kamse kam yaham tho secularism ko chance de do

What is secularism? What's the purpose of this? How you can achieve this? is it Practical? all this is discussed in first few pages.

 

[Dubious]

The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to prophet Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether the Prophet compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an. The reason why Uthman gave this order is discussed further in the section below entitled "The Collection of the Qur'an".

Due to this order by Uthman, it has become difficult for scholars to look at the different manuscripts from before the canonization because no manuscripts remain and all that is left is varying accounts from different historians. Even though Uthman canonized the written Qur'an during his reign in 653-656, small diacritical variations still remained in the written Qur'an, which can be seen in the early manuscripts of the Umayyad and Abbasid Dynasties.[2]

Wiki is an excellent source but things as simple as in a university, your argument goes as UNAUTHENTIC! Wiki is not accepted in universities but you want us to accept it?

 

[Dubious]

The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to prophet Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether the Prophet compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an. The reason why Uthman gave this order is discussed further in the section below entitled "The Collection of the Qur'an".

Due to this order by Uthman, it has become difficult for scholars to look at the different manuscripts from before the canonization because no manuscripts remain and all that is left is varying accounts from different historians. Even though Uthman canonized the written Qur'an during his reign in 653-656, small diacritical variations still remained in the written Qur'an, which can be seen in the early manuscripts of the Umayyad and Abbasid Dynasties.[2]

1st tell me do you want to understand what you wrote or you have an aim to prove your point?

I do not waste time with people with an aim because they are as stubborn as many have pointed to ZARVAN but have failed to see themselves being of a similar nature!

However if you came to learn and understand, it can be arranged!

 

[Indrajith]

Dear Talon,

There were only a few disputes among the Companions about the text of the Quran while the Prophet was alive, unlike those which arose soon after his death. All these factors explain the absence of an official codified text at the time of his death. Imaam As-Suyooti stated that the Quran, as sent down from Allaah in separate stages, had been completely written down and carefully preserved, but that it had not been assembled into one single location during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, [Ibn Is-haaq, Seerat Rasoolullaah, p.96] All of it was said to have been available in principle, for the Companions had absorbed it in their memories and it had been written down on separate materials. The final order of the various verses and chapters is also presumed to have been defined by the Prophet while he was still alive.

Source:http://www.islamweb.net

 

[Dubious]

Dear Talon,

There were only a few disputes among the Companions about the text of the Quran while the Prophet was alive, unlike those which arose soon after his death. All these factors explain the absence of an official codified text at the time of his death. Imaam As-Suyooti stated that the Quran, as sent down from Allaah in separate stages, had been completely written down and carefully preserved, but that it had not been assembled into one single location during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, [Ibn Is-haaq, Seerat Rasoolullaah, p.96] All of it was said to have been available in principle, for the Companions had absorbed it in their memories and it had been written down on separate materials. The final order of the various verses and chapters is also presumed to have been defined by the Prophet while he was still alive.

Source:http://www.islamweb.net

Again imam so and so said I thought @LoveIcon made it clear?

1st tell me do you want to understand what you wrote or you have an aim to prove your point?

I do not waste time with people with an aim because they are as stubborn as many have pointed to ZARVAN but have failed to see themselves being of a similar nature!

However if you came to learn and understand, it can be arranged!

And you have not answered my questions...

 

[Dubious]

@Indrajith you quote things not from the Quran and expect me to explain when @LoveIcon and I clearly said ONLY quran only quran and only quran....

But you prefer going to some random website or a hadith because You can not take it from the Quran...Or is there some form of fear from reading the Quran?

 

[Arabian Legend]

Being Arab you don't require any translation, instructions of Wudu, Ghusl, Salat etc. exist. I have quoted some in my previous post. You can check directly in Arabic.

How about the number of Rakah in one Salat, calculation of your Zakat, Tayammum, Aitkaf, Ihram, Miyqat, diyah.

Brother, Mohammed peace be upon him came to preach the message and to teach the people how to practice and preform their religion.

He peace be upon him said; pray as you see me praying. also; ''Learn your rituals from me''

Who is declining that - no doubt in that - But Hidths are account of different persons. There are reports that Imam Bukhari had total collection of more than 500K Hadiths but he included only 6,000 in his book means rest were suspected. So, we have to relay on Bukhari's judgement about the authenticity of Hadith. Same is the case with others.

It is not about Bukhari , there is something called science of Hadith and reporters. Any Hadith lack of Isnad is rejected.

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate and verify. Al-hujrat 6.

 

[somebozo]

Taliban implemented successfully Islamic laws but whole world including Muslim world have become their enemy … Actually as a human being we have our self – interests … For sake our self – interest we can cut one’s neck without any regret … That’s why we don’t want to implement just to protect out self – interest ..

If that is what you call Islamic law then rest of the civilized world has every right to oppose its implementation and we go back to square one - Islamist society and modern principles of living are incompatible!


There is no real and scientific way to verify Ahadiths and many of the people in the chain of narration have politically motivated backgrounds. It is well possible that the rulers of that time were making up stuff just like mullahs do today!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Funny im still alive...

 

[Soumitra]

My post in another thread

For those people specially Pakistanis who want to know the meaning of secularism

Delhi University launches course on secularism

New Delhi. Taking note of the development that “secularism” was back in the limelight after Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar demanded a secular Prime Ministerial candidate for NDA, Delhi University has launched a course in secularism – Bachelor of Secularism or B.Sc.
“There will be no minimum qualification needed to get admitted to the course,” DU vice-chancellor Prof. Dinesh Singh informed, “We thought we would lose out on a big pool of potential candidates – political leaders of India – if we insist on some educational qualifications.”
The course will help students learn different types of secularism and become a certified secular after successfully completing the course.
“We have often seen a person’s secular credentials being questioned, so we thought we’d start awarding such credentials,” Prof. Singh said.

One can become a certified secular person now in just three years
When asked if the university had acquired the necessary rights to issue certificates of secularism – something that has been the prerogative of a few intellectuals and political leaders – Prof. Singh said that time had come when different centers started issuing certificates of secularism.
“Traditionally an institute like JNU or a politician like Digvijay Singh would issue certificates of secularism, but we think that this trend needs to be changed,” he said.
“In fact, we’d be awarding degrees,” he added.
The proposed course will be of three year duration. Participants would be exposed to different types of secularism in the first two years. The student can choose to specialize in an area or go for a ‘pass course’ in the final year of the course.

The different types of secularism, as identified for the course curriculum, are – Western Secularism (separation of the Church and the State), Gandhian Secularism (equal respect to all religions), Nehruvian Secularism (equal confusion towards all religions), Atheistic Secularism (equal disrespect to all religions), Pseudo Secularism (more respect to the minority religions), and Indian Secularism (no definition; pass course, no specialization).
“We were also thinking of offering specialization in Instant Secularism (opposition to Narendra Modi) but we think one doesn’t need to study for three years for this, so we are sticking to the five areas of specialization,” Prof. Singh informed.
The announcement by Delhi University has received mixed reactions. Many students have welcomed the move to have no minimum educational qualification as cut-off marks for admission to DU colleges were already going sky high, but some question the utility of such a course.
“Will being secular get me a day job?” wondered a class 12th student.
Also, as expected, the course has already landed into a political controversy.
“What about reservations during admission? Secularism without social justice is useless,” demanded a leader from a regional party, “Also, a minority institution like St. Stephen’s College should have more autonomy in running such courses than a college like Hindu College.”
HRD Minister Kapil Sibal has promised to look into such concerns. “If DU doesn’t fall in line, we will authorize JNU to launch M.Sc. – Master of Secularism – course,” Sibal told Faking News.

Delhi University launches new course B.Sc

 

[Sugarcane]

How about the number of Rakah in one Salat, calculation of your Zakat, Tayammum, Aitkaf, Ihram, Miyqat, diyah.

Brother, Mohammed peace be upon him came to preach the message and to teach the people how to practice and preform their religion.

He peace be upon him said; pray as you see me praying. also; ''Learn your rituals from me''


It is not about Bukhari , there is something called science of Hadith and reporters. Any Hadith lack of Isnad is rejected.

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate and verify. Al-hujrat 6.

Tayammum:
5:006 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.

Rakah: The Quran does not specify any number of units for prayers. It leaves it to our discretion. Since there is no dispute on 2,4,4,3,4 (fardh), so this is more likely preserved by God.

Zakat: If you are asking percentage than yes, it's not mentioned but guidance for this is still there

6:141 He is the One who established gardens, trellised and untrellised, and palm trees, and crops with different tastes, and olives, and pomegranate —fruits that are similar, yet dissimilar. Eat from their fruits, and give the due alms on the day of harvest,* and do not waste anything. He does not love the wasters.


Example here is given of corps, eat from it, give due Zakat and don't waste. Means - give maximum or infect all excessive of your needs.

Hajj:
2:196] You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and 'Umrah for GOD. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination. If you are ill, or suffering a head injury (and you must cut your hair), you shall expiate by fasting, or giving to charity, or some other form of worship. During the normal Hajj, if you break the state of Ihraam (sanctity) between 'Umrah and Hajj, you shall expiate by offering an animal sacrifice. If you cannot afford it, you shall fast three days during Hajj and seven when you return home—this completes ten—provided you do not live at the Sacred Mosque (Masjid). You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is strict in enforcing retribution
[2:197] Hajj shall be observed in the specified months.* Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence
[2:198] You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord (through commerce). When you file from 'Arafaat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah). You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray.
[2:199] You shall file together, with the rest of the people who file, and ask GOD for forgiveness. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[2:200] Once you complete your rites, you shall continue to commemorate GOD as you commemorate your own parents, or even better. Some people would say, "Our Lord, give us of this world," while having no share in the Hereafter.
[2:201] Others would say, "Our Lord, grant us righteousness in this world, and righteousness in the Hereafter, and spare us the retribution of Hell."
[2:202] Each of these will receive the share they have earned. GOD is most efficient in reckoning.
[2:203] You shall commemorate GOD for a number of days (in Mena); whoever hastens to do this in two days commits no sin, and whoever stays longer commits no sin, so long as righteousness is maintained. You shall observe GOD, and know that before Him you will be gathered.

Aitkaf - As far as i know it's not mandatory, If it is than first show tell me the verse of Quran declaring it mandatory, than i will try to research and find the answer.

Miyqat, Diyah??


Last line of your posts sums everything by itself.

"O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate and verify. Al-hujrat 6.

It's responsibility of EVERY believer (not just Hadith book writers) to investigate & verify, Surely they have verified but there is no surety that their judgement was right, after all they were humans. So, Today we can't verify the source but surely we can cross check either these Hadith's comply with Quran or not - no matter how much Sahih the book is but still that is not more credible than Quran.

 

[Patriots]

Everything important for prayer is mentioned i.e. Aboulation, Timings, Number of Prayers, What to Recite, Important Positions in Prayer etc. Here are some examples, can quote you more if required

Ablution

005:006 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.

004:043 O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again

Direction For Prayer
2:150 So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided

Important Positions of Prayer

02-238 Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).

22-26 Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

Comprehension And Purpose Of Prayer

23-2 Those who humble themselves in their prayers;

017:110-111 Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between." Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"

Where would you get other directions that how would you rinse the mouth … Put water in the nose to complete ablution … What will you recite during formation … bow … And prostrate … How much ratio should you pay of Zakat … What acts should be during performing Hajj … Which things break your fast and which things do your fast much perfect…????????
All above things we could know through Ahadith … I think ..