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‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

@Agnostic_Indian, @fateh71,

I see a big boulder and I see your heads...... a good outcome is certainly not likely. It doesn't matter how good the signal is if there is no antenna to receive it.
@Bang Galore It is because we are not even talking about the same topic!

We Muslims are pointing at our book guidance and laws

While you people are picking up different people and showing them as examples! WE DO NOT DENY men can go wrong but WE DENY our book is wrong!

So you see the bigger picture do you need more spoon feeding?
 
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Amputations were practiced by Romans to punish criminals
Corporal punishments were widely used in Greece, Rome, and Egypt as early as 10BC.



Mullah dictionary fail - Salah is an Arabic word while its Urdu translation is Namaz.
Unless you are telling me that hundred thousand of parent around the world telling their children "Namaz parho" are utterly wrong!
Sir Pakistanis use the word Namaz but the exact word for Muslims which they use for prayers of 5 times is Salah and this word is used several times in the Quran go read and stop talking lies and ****
 
But as I said u MUST believe and do not have any other choice. The tragedy of religion.

I think you failed big time here!

few posts ago you are all screaming your lungs out about how people should not be FORCED into other people's believe nor should IMPOSE their believes on others! Read your own words!
 
Nothing to do with zoroastrianism. At first there were 50 nimaz ( prayer 50 times a day ) fixed by Allah for followers of Last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) during Meraj but then when Prophet Muhammad came to Prophet Issa (AS) [Jesus] , on one of the 7 skies, he (Jesus) asked from our Prophet about the number of prayers fixed for Muslims upon knowing these are 50 the Jesus asked our Prophet to request Allah for lessening these as Ummat e rasool wont be as strong as earlier humanbeings during times of rest of the Prophets. This repeated few times till the number of Prayers reduced to 5 times a by Allah.


Thats how 5 times a day prayers since Islam is a religion of nature and does not ask something which is a burden on human.

You know how impractical it would be to pray 50 times a day and Muslim would practically be still living in caves. Make belive stories like these are good to instill faith by exploiting human gullibility but reality must be research from facts not fiction! Between the age of 25-40, Muhammed spend his life travelling all around Arabia, Syria and various parts of Middle East conducting trade and that must have taught him a vast pool of cultural knowledge but off-course for the Bedouins who have never seen the sunlight outside their cave it was a miracle!


Islam claims that Mecca is an ancient historical city which existed long before Christ, dating as far back as the time of Abraham. A powerful argument against this claim is the absence of any inscriptions found on monuments, or in any archaeological records dating back to those times. The ancient cities and kingdoms of Arabia do have rich histories which survive to this day through monuments, the inscriptions they bear, and in other archaeological documents. These historical records have given archaeologists a highly-integrated and, in some cases, complete record of the names of kings who ruled these cities and kingdoms. These records have also given archaeologists important information about the history of the wars fought over the kingdoms and cities of Arabia. In most cases, inscriptions and monuments in various cities – especially in the western and southwestern portions of Arabia – even give the names of coregents who ruled with the kings. Yet, even with this rich collection of historical and archaeological information, there are no inscriptions or monuments, or other archaeological findings whatsoever, that mention Mecca.
Regarding the richness of the archaeological findings in Arabia, Montgomery says that Assyrian inscriptions did not provide as much detailed information as the Arabian inscriptions did.[1]


If Mecca existed in ancient times, it should have more archaeological findings than did regions south and north of it, whose history is richly documented through archaeology.

By Dr. Rafat Amari
 
I asked Zarvan if all human being are equal since birth irrespective of religion and race but he always skipped my question.

You can tag him and ask him again instead of complaining like a baby and smirking about it!
 
You know how impractical it would be to pray 50 times a day and Muslim would practically be still living in caves. Make belive stories like these are good to instill faith by exploiting human gullibility but reality must be research from facts not fiction!
Quran and Hadees are the biggest facts and reality on the face of the earth but somes touts of kufr and have gone deaf dumb and blind as told by ALLAH in the Quran they just want to run away from the reality and the truth of Quran and Sunnah
 
There is no such thing as original message. Why are we seeing so much sects in Islam? Because of the interpretations of that original message. Sunni's interpret original message on their own way, Shias Interpret original message on their own way. Now what to do now?

Go to the message not the interpretation!
 
I think - first of all we should know what is religion - is religion for governance or punishment - as per me religion is something that should attach me to a supernatural , that should enhance my spirit and my inbound charachtersitics , that should fill me with love to all , that should get me away from all the ill beliefs, ill thoughts , ill activity and showing empathy to others without the segregation of creed, color or belifs

@Indrajith For us Muslims Islam is a way of life..

"O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion, for some suspicions are a sin. Do not spy on one another, nor backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, you would abhor it, [so similarly, avoid backbiting]. And fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful." Qur'an, [49:12]

On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)

"[Successful are] those who shun vain talk." [Qur'an, al-Mu'minun: 3]

When our religions were used for governance, for stipulating do & do nots, when commanding how others to live , that is when all turmoil started, that is when illogical & stupid people came to power

It is not COMMANDING but ADVISING!

When you say as per the book, it doesnt mean as per the book, but it means as interpreted by the most or the most powerfuls that is it or as it has been the cliche or as it has been followed by the most ,nothing more than that

I am sure most of us in South asia do not know what is the correct meaning that is written in the holy books, its circumstances , its relativity etc should be taken while interpreting it , but we all follow as what is said by others

"Why do not the believing men and women, whenever such [a rumour] is heard, think the best of one another and say, “This is an obvious falsehood”? ... When you take it up with your tongues, uttering with your mouths something of which you have no knowledge, you deem it a light matter. Whereas in the sight of God it is an awful thing!" (Quran 24: 12-15).

I am sure most of us in South asia do not know what is the correct meaning that is written in the holy books, its circumstances , its relativity etc should be taken while interpreting it , but we all follow as what is said by others

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...get-you-killed-pakistan-29.html#ixzz2JMT318QA

Hence they should go back to the source the Quran!
 
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You know how impractical it would be to pray 50 times a day and Muslim would practically be still living in caves. Make belive stories like these are good to instill faith by exploiting human gullibility but reality must be research from facts not fiction! Between the age of 25-40, Muhammed spend his life travelling all around Arabia, Syria and various parts of Middle East conducting trade and that must have taught him a vast pool of cultural knowledge but off-course for the Bedouins who have never seen the sunlight outside their cave it was a miracle!

Salat/Prayer was already there even before Prophet, below are the verses of Quran related to Abraham

"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols. "O my Lord! they have indeed led astray many among mankind; He then who follows my (ways) is of me, and he that disobeys me,- but Thou art indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks. " 14:35-37

Islam is not a new religion, it was there already. Even in Quran it's written that Prophet(PBUH) was following the religion of Abraham

"So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah." 16:123
 
Its like a guide book written by ulemas. Its not necessary to follow the same by every individuals.

@STEELMAN

Come again? I am sorry I am a little lost what is is the guide book?
 
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No Sir many things are according to Islam but many more works need to be done one most important think they have done is ended political parties but their economy is still running on Interest and many of their trade is not according to Islamic laws


I have you go and study Islam

Article 4 : Importance of Sunnah, Hadith & Scholars
IMPORTANCE OF SUNNAH & HADITH
We see numerous ayaat in Qur’an where Allah clearly mentions the importance of Authentic Sunnah & Hadiths and the scholars who rely on them. However in this article we will see some of the most important of those which will help us establish a clear picture for our series, “Hadith: The Integral part of Islam”.
There are many ayaat which clearly command to “obey messenger”. These ayaat are direct, clear and can be understood even by a lay man without any complications. One of those is as below:
And establish the Prayer and give zakah, and obey the Messenger so that you may be shown mercy.
[Translation of Qur’an 24:56]
However as a general observation, people who ignore/sideline hadiths love to complicate things. So as their argument they say, “Messenger only followed Qur’an, so obeying Qur’an only (which was revealed by Allah) is obeying Messenger”. So in short they say, “Obey Allah to obey Messenger”. However Allah mentions in Qur’an:
He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
[Translation of Qur’an 4:80]
And any unbiased person would understand the difference between, “Obey Allah to obey Messenger” and “He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah” (Exactly opposite). However as many misunderstand, this is not to say that Messenger (SAS) made laws or gave commands by himself. This only confirms the ayah: “He does not speak on his own, out of his own desire. That is but a Revelation that is revealed to him.” (Translation of Qur’an 53:3-4). This issue has been also discussed in detail in Article 2 of this series – ‘Is Qur’an the only form of Revelation to Mohammad (SAS)?’. Also the actions, approvals and character are part of this revelation as explained in Article 1 – ‘What are Hadiths and Sunnah?’
Some other Importance of Sunnah and Hadiths as listed by Dr. Bilal Philips in his usool-ul-Hadith are as Revelation, Tafseer, Laws, Moral Ideal, and their role in Preservation of Islam.
1. Revelation: The Prophet’s sayings and actions were primarily based on revelation from Allah (One True God) and, as such, must be considered a fundamental source of guidance along with Qur’an. Allah in the Qur’an said concerning the Prophet (SAS) -
He does not speak on his own, out of his own desire; That is but a Revelation that is revealed to him.
[Translation of Qur’an 53:3-4]
Therefore, the Hadeeth represents a personal source of divine guidance which Allah granted His Prophet (pbuh) which was similar in its nature to the Qur’an itself. The Prophet (pbuh) reiterated this point in one of his recorded statements, “Indeed, I was given the Qur’an and something similar to it along with it.” [Sunan Abu Dawud] (Also see Article 2 of this series – ‘Is Qur’an the only form of Revelation to Mohammad (SAS)?’ for details)
2. Tafseer: The preservation of the Qur’an was not restricted to protecting its wording from change. Was that the case, its meanings could be manipulated according to human desires, while maintaining its wording. However, Allah also protected its essential meanings from change by entrusting the explanation of the meanings of Qur’an to the Prophet (SAS) himself. Allah states the following in the Qur’an regarding its interpretation:
(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee [Muhammad (pbuh)] the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
[Translation of Qur’an 16:44]
Therefore, if one is to understand the meanings of Qur’an, he or she must consider what the Prophet (SAS) said or did regarding it. E.g. in the Qur’an, Allah instructs the believers to offer salaah (formal prayers) and pay zakaah (obligatory charity) in Chapter 2, verse 43. However, in order to obey these instructions correctly, one must study the methodology of the Prophet (SAS) in this regard. Among his many clarifications concerning Salaah and zakaah, he instructed his followers saying “Pray as you saw me pray,”[ Sahih Al-Bukhari, vol. 1, no. 604.] and he specified that surplus wealth, unused for a year, should be given as zakaah.
3. Laws: One of the primary duties of the Prophet (SAS) was to judge between people in their disputes. Since his judgments were all based on revelation, as stated earlier, they must be considered a primary source of principles by which judgments are carried out in an Islamic State. Allah also addressed this responsibility in the Qur’an saying:
It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
[Translation of Qur’an 33:36]
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[Translation of Qur’an 9:29]
But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee (Prophet Muhammad [SAS]) judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
[Translation of Qur’an 4:65]
Thus Hadiths are essential for the smooth running of the law courts in an Islamic State.
4. Moral Ideal: Since the Prophet (pbuh) was guided by revelation in his personal life, his character and social interactions became prime examples of moral conduct for Muslims until the Last Day. Attention was drawn to this fact in the following verse of Qur’an:
Surely there is for all of you a good example in the way of Allah’s Messenger.
[Translation Qur’an 33:21]
Consequently, the daily life of the Prophet (SAS) as recorded in hadith represents an ideal code of good conduct. Also as examples are given to reflect and Qur’an is for all generations till Qiyamah, it becomes necessary to refer to authentic Hadiths.
5. Preservation of Islam: The science of narration, collection and criticism of hadith was unknown to the world prior to the era of the Prophet (pbuh). In fact, it was due in part to the absence of such a reliable science that the messages of the former prophets became lost or distorted in the generations that followed them. Therefore, it may be said that it is largely due to the science ofhadith that the final message of Islam has been preserved in it is original purity for all times. This is alluded to in the Qur’anic verse:
“Indeed, I have revealed the Reminder, I will, indeed, protect it.”
[Translation Qur’an 15: 90]

IMPORTANCE OF SCHOLARS
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those of you who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.
[Translation of Qur’an 4:59]
This ayah not only makes it compulsory for Muslims to refer to Allah (through Qur’an) and His messenger (SAS) (through Authentic Hadiths) in case we defer, but also makes it compulsory to obey the authority as long as they don’t go against any ruling of Qur’an and Hadiths (as explained in many Authentic Hadiths and also by literature expert Shaikh Navid Aziz; as the word ‘atiul’ has not been used for Authorities). Refering to Allah is being done in this article and we’ll inshallah refer Mesenger (SAS) regarding issue of Hadiths in next article.
The ‘Authority’ mentioned in this ayah refers to people having excellent knowledge or those having political power or those with both of them. Similarly it is mentioned in Qur’an:
And it is not (proper) for the believers to go out to fight (Jihad ) all together. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may get instructions in religion, and that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may beware (of evil).
[Translation of Qur’an 9:122]
This ayah allows people to take knowledge from the trusted people. Such knowledge is recorded in Hadiths and was made known and preserved only through Usool-ul-Hadith. The next ayah is:
And the foremost to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun)and also those who followed them in righteousness. Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.
[Translation of Qur’an 9:100]
Here Allah, without any ambiguity refers to those who followed Muhajirun and Ansar exactly in faith and adds that He is well pleased with them too. This refers to the fact that their biography is very important along with those of Muhajirun and Ansar.
Thus in conclusion we could say that if you love Allah there is no option but to follow the authentic tradition of Muhammad (SAS), also justified in below ayah:
Say: “If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Say: “Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.
[Translation of Qur’an 3:31-32]


Implement Islamic Economy system and make your country die economically so people start despising Islamic and another Revolution will come to change Islamic system.. That's what common sense says. Well surely you dont have common sense. So no point arguing, Coz you wont accept that One can not survive economically by implementing Islamic system as it is
 
@Agnostic_Indian, @fateh71,

I see a big boulder and I see your heads...... a good outcome is certainly not likely. It doesn't matter how good the signal is if there is no antenna to receive it.

Ya! Agreed. They are all Zarvans, only a question of degree. The arrogance is mindblowing though, I mean nobody cares what one believes in, but these people believe in stuff that affects others, and yet keep parroting the same thing like a zombie.

Its non invasive lobotomy, nothing less.
 
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Go to the message not the interpretation!


If I go by the message, than According to Quran, Even a Married can have intercourse with a female slave without marrying her.And these things were practiced at the time of Prophet (P.B.U.H)


If I go by the message, we have to invade the non muslim lands non stop until Islam is spread all over the world.
 
If I go by the message, than According to Quran, Even a Married can have intercourse with a female slave without marrying her.And these things were practiced at the time of Prophet (P.B.U.H)

OKk let me break it down to you....read the Quran in context with UNDERSTANDING :)

Here you go...

Marry them not just have intercourse!

"If any of you who do not have the means to marry free women who are believing, you may marry slave girls who are believers. Allah knows best about your faith; you are all same in that respect. Marry them with the approval of their families and give them their gifts (dowries) correctly and courteously as married women, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. When they are married, if they commit adultery they should receive half the punishment of free women. This for those of you who are afraid of committing fornication. But being patient is better for you. Allah is Ever-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:25)
 
OKk let me break it down to you....read the Quran in context with UNDERSTANDING :)


And that context is told in Hadith's right? So Hadith's are not taken as it is. Why? because there exist numerous interpretation of that contexts and Hadith's.
 
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