‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Dubious]

TO those who are blaming the people! Next time if someone has an accident and survives please burn the car because it was the cars fault not the drivers!

If the law is fool-proof and most perfect as you claim, then it could not have been misused by people for their gains. It would have had inbuilt checks and balances to prevent the misuse. OTOH if it was misused by people for their personal gains, then it is NOT "most perfect" as you claim.

This concept is so simple.

It is full prove when used as it is written...it can not guarantee if a corrupt DOES SOMETHING AND PUT its label on it!

Like buying fake jeans and passing them as levis !

 

[INDIC]

Nalanda was perhaps the greatest center of learning in the world at that time.

Many Pakistanis told me that those invaders made us Hindus civilized. But honestly what they gave us apart from tasty biryani.

 

[livingdead]

TO those who are blaming the people! Next time if someone has an accident and survives please burn the car because it was the cars fault not the drivers!

offtopic: if quite a few people do similar accidents, car manufacturers investigate and sometimes recall the cars . and fix.. ..

Many Pakistanis told me that those invaders made us Hindus civilized. But honestly what they gave us apart from tasty biryani.

paneer, I dont like paneer though.. but its like meat for veggie people.

 

[KS]

It is full prove when used as it is written...it can not guarantee if a corrupt DOES SOMETHING AND PUT its label on it!

You dont understand..do you ? The corrupt , if he is able to interpret the law in such a way to misuse it, then the vaguness of that law that allowed the corrupt to misinterpret it, is also to be blamed. A most perfect,divine and beautiful law cannot be (mis) interpreted even by the most corrupt. OTOH if the law is able to be misinterpreted by the corrupt then it is not perfect.

If a lock can be opened by a thief using some other key, then the fault is more on the part of the guy who made that lock than on the thief who used a duplicate to open it. Geddit ?

 

[Dubious]

Many Pakistanis told me that those invaders made us Hindus civilized. But honestly what they gave us apart from tasty biryani.

That is history....I am talking about laws! Can you differentiate the 2 words?

offtopic: if quite a few people do similar accidents, car manufacturers investigate and sometimes recall the cars . and fix.. ..


paneer, I dont like paneer though.. but its like meat for veggie people.

Ok let me correct my sentence, A PERFECT CAR being driven and a guy turns the wheel and crashes it into another guy...should we burn the car?

 

[KS]

huh anyway arguing with these Islamists is like banging your head on the wall. The wall doesn't feel a thing while you bleed. They are just beyond reasoning with their absolutes and binaries.

 

[Dubious]

You dont understand..do you ? The corrupt , if he is able to interpret the law in such a way to misuse it, then the vaguness of that law that allowed the corrupt to misinterpret it, is also to be blamed. A most perfect,divine and beautiful law cannot be (mis) interpreted even by the most corrupt. OTOH if the law is able to be misinterpreted by the corrupt then it is not perfect.

It is people like you who did not learn the law and hence believe those who did wrong WERE FOLLOWING the law...NOT until YOU READ IT will YOU be able to distinguish who is practicing it right and who is abusing it

If a lock can be opened by a thief using some other key, then the fault is more on the part of the guy who made that lock than on the thief who used a duplicate to open it. Geddit ?

If the lock was never opened but broken by the thief and he told everyone it was open....then it is your fault for not checking the lock and saying yes you left that way and it is faulty

huh anyway arguing with these Islamists is like banging your head on the wall. The wall doesn't feel a thing while you bleed. They are just beyond reasoning with their absolutes and binaries.

Explaining something to someone who has no basics about it is also like hitting the wall! It is equally painful and the wall feels not a thing!

 

[KS]

It is people like you who did not learn the law and hence believe those who did wrong WERE FOLLOWING the law...NOT until YOU READ IT will YOU be able to distinguish who is practicing it right and who is abusing it

If the lock was never opened but broken by the thief and he told everyone it was open....then it is your fault for not checking the lock and saying yes you left that way and it is faulty

But it was never broken. Every single conquest of blood and land was so beautifully justified using the verses that breaking it open was never necessary. The verses in themselves were contradictory and vague that anybody who had a way with words could easily tweak the meaning to justify his actions. The most perfect law became a clay in the hands allowing itself to be moulded to any shape the user wanted. Some perfectness that is !

 

[livingdead]

That is history....I am talking about laws! Can you differentiate the 2 words?



Ok let me correct my sentence, A PERFECT CAR being driven and a guy turns the wheel and crashes it into another guy...should we burn the car?

Well here is the question, is quran easy to understand for ordinary people and clear as to what is to be done. Does it require any supplementary text to be understood. Does it require any specialized people to help ordinary people.
It seems two people can argue about what quran says and arrive at completely different(sometimes opposite) conclusion.
Its seems a bit like british tax laws...

 

[Dubious]

But it was never broken. Every single conquest of blood and land was so beautifully justified using the verses that breaking it open was never necessary. The verses in themselves were contradictory and vague that anybody who had a way with words could easily tweak the meaning to justify his actions. The most perfect law became a clay in the hands allowing itself to be moulded to any shape the user wanted. Some perfectness that is !

I am sorry if no one quoted the Quran for you

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

Let us look at Noble Verse 5:32 "...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..."

word is person not MUSLIM the law does not discriminate on humanity

Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)." In this Noble Verse, we clearly see Allah Almighty ordering us, the Muslims, to incline toward peace when the enemy inclines toward peace. This proves that Islam is not a religion for wars, but for peace.

And many more if only you would read...

 

[Sugarcane]

Sahih Albukhari and Muslims are the most authentic references for the Hadith of Prophet Mohammed PBUH.

Hadith is part of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) sunnah and Muslims are commanded by God to follow this Sunnah, together with Quran, as sources for Islam religion teachings and rules.

Prophet Muhammad is a true model for human to be followed in all his saying, doings, and practices.

prophet sayings (hadith) give the details, as explained to the prophet by God, of many ritual worships.

prophet sayings (hadith) are sources of many Islam morals.

prophet sayings (hadith) detail and explain what is briefed in Quran.

I hope that helps

If all the Hadith's are correct than why those are contradictory and led to sects???

We set up against every prophet enemies, human and jinn devils, who exhort each other to invent fancy statements in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. (But it is God's will) in order that the minds of those who do not believe in the hereafter may listen thereto, and to let them accept it, and to expose their true identity." (6:112-113)

And the messenger will say, 'My Lord, my people have deserted THIS QURAN.' We thus set up against every prophet enemies who are wicked. YOUR LORD SUFFICES AS A GUIDE AND SUPPORTER (i.e., Quran is enough)." (25:30-31)

"There are those who advocate vain causing diversion from the path of God, without knowledge, and fail to take such actions seriously; these have deserved humiliating retribution. And when our verses are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly, as if he never heard them; as if his ears are deaf; promise him painful retribution." (31:6-7)

My simple Question do you agree with God's words that Quran is easy & complete or not?

 

[Dubious]

Well here is the question, is quran easy to understand for ordinary people and clear as to what is to be done. Does it require any supplementary text to be understood. Does it require any specialized people to help ordinary people.
It seems two people can argue about what quran says and arrive at completely different(sometimes opposite) conclusion.
Its seems a bit like british tax laws...

It does not require a supplementary text to understand the basic laws and rulings....No idea where you heard that bit...Quran is clear but you do however need to know the context!

My simple Question do you agree with God's words that Quran is easy & complete or not?

I answered it as what I answered to hinduguy

 

[livingdead]

It does not require a supplementary text to understand the basic laws and rulings....No idea where you heard that bit...Quran is clear but you do however need to know the context!



I answered it as what I answered to hinduguy

I dont believe you. I have never read quran, but I have observed many debates among people here who can post a quote on demand. Most such debate do not reach any logical end.
You can go through many thread on pdf where people on both (or multiple views) arguing with quote pe quote.. now I know you are itching to say what you think to be right on any issue is crystal clear (and wonder how people can miss it.. are they stupid).. but I can assure you.. it is hardly that simple.
Take any issue.. say does islam require women to wear hijab for example (plz dont answer and dont post random quote.. its just an example of a divided verdict.. )


supplementary text: hadith?
expert opinion: mullah?

 

[Sugarcane]

Well here is the question, is quran easy to understand for ordinary people and clear as to what is to be done. Does it require any supplementary text to be understood. Does it require any specialized people to help ordinary people.
It seems two people can argue about what quran says and arrive at completely different(sometimes opposite) conclusion.
Its seems a bit like british tax laws...

Well - If you ask Super Muslim than yes - Quran is very difficult and you need to read dozens of books to understand it but if you ask me "Muslim by name" than Quran is very easy and anyone with commonsense can understand it. You can try it to check either it's easy or difficult.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Proposal - the law is perfect
Proof - 1500 years of failure
Assumption - the law is perfect
Conclusion - the law is perfect

REAL conclusion - islamists are all Zarvan in varying degree.

Proposal - the law is perfect
Proof - 1500 years of failure
Assumption - the law is perfect
Conclusion - the law is perfect

REAL conclusion - islamists are all Zarvan in varying degree.