‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Azazel]

Jahil jahil hota hai ..

We debating islamic rules & law not inventions ...

Why don't you read the previous post before jump into to the discussion.What I said was perfectly relevant to the person it was meant to.

 

[Sugarcane]

Praying five times a day defeminately was.

Over time, Zoroastrians developed the concept of worshipping in temples, sometimes called fire temples. The temples contain an inner sanctum (pavi) or platform where a fire is maintained or placed. This is because Zoroastrians face a source of light when they pray. In temples the source of light is a flame maintained in a fire urn. In certain temples, this fire is kept burning continuously, representing an eternal flame.

The orthodox will pray during each of the five divisions of the day (see our page on the Zoroastrian calendar) or gahs (see our page on the Avesta, scriptures) including reciting a special set of prayers before and after bathing.

Zoroastrians hold that the effectiveness of a person's beliefs is demonstrated in that person's deeds. While praying helps to reaffirm beliefs, a life based on good deeds is prayer in action. Our lives are the temples of our souls. This is a natural progression of the ethical creed of good thoughts, words and deeds, where good deeds are held to be most meritorious.

[Note: The word namaz or namaaz is used in modern Persian to mean prayer. It is derived from namazh, in turn derived from the Middle Persian namaach, a word with roots in the Avestan nemangh. Interestingly, in Avestan nemase-te means 'reverence to you'. Compare with Hindi namaste from Vedic Sanskrit namas-te meaning 'honouring-you'. The word namaz is now also used by Persian and Indo-Pakistani Muslims to mean prayer. Muslims have also taken the concept of praying five times a day and using a prayer cap or head-covering while praying from Zoroastrianism.]

We believe that there were 140K Prophets sent all over the world, and 3 books before Quran. The people of that time corrupted the teachings of these Prophets & books. Prophet Muhammad is the final Prophet & Quran is final book to reinstate the original message. So, surely Zoroastrian had the message of God but they corrupted it.

 

[Dubious]

We believe that there were 140K Prophets sent all over the world, and 3 books before Quran. The people of that time corrupted the teachings of these Prophets & books. Prophet Muhammad is the final Prophet & Quran is final book to reinstate the original message. So, surely Zoroastrian had the message of God but they corrupted it.

Yup from praying to GOD they found that fire was giving them rizkh and sustaining them!

No wonder we are hot blooded!

 

[SQ8]

Provided that they pay the Jizyah - which is practically extortion in the name of religion!

Your understanding of Jizyah is flawed
At no point is it "extortion"..otherwise General sales tax is extortion.
In peacetime Jizyah is equivalent to zakat for collection.

Jizyah is equivalent to war bonds or war tax on non-combatants(in addition to taxes by the state).. because it was generally assumed that non-Muslims from conquered lands(or otherwise) would not be fighting on the side of Muslims and hence when they come under Muslim rule and are not taking part in conflict(losing lives.. etc) they are liable to pay tax.

If it was simply extortion for protection then there would be no welfare provided apart from just protection.

 

[Spring Onion]

What do you mean by secularism,The Courts job is to adjudicate legal disputes between parties and carry out the administration of justice in civil, criminal, and administrative matters in accordance with the rule of law.If the religion is involved in the legal dispute then courts have to step in.As long as the laws are kept Seperate from religion their are no issue to secularism.

We hearby take oath on bible/geeta and so on. whats the use of that in the first place in courts

 

[SQ8]

[Note: The word namaz or namaaz is used in modern Persian to mean prayer. It is derived from namazh, in turn derived from the Middle Persian namaach, a word with roots in the Avestan nemangh. Interestingly, in Avestan nemase-te means 'reverence to you'. Compare with Hindi namaste from Vedic Sanskrit namas-te meaning 'honouring-you'. The word namaz is now also used by Persian and Indo-Pakistani Muslims to mean prayer. Muslims have also taken the concept of praying five times a day and using a prayer cap or head-covering while praying from Zoroastrianism.][/I]

The five times a day rule may have been predominant in earlier revelation of Abrahamic religion(Islam) has well... doesn't seem to imply inspiration.... more that the message has been sent before and forgotten time and time again.

The head-covering has been around throughout Abrahamic religion.. and others.
Still does not translate to implicit derivation.

 

[Azazel]

We hearby take oath on bible/geeta and so on. whats the use of that in the first place in courts

I discussed that before.It's a tradition derived from old British legal system(Some say they got it from Romans).you can take oath any way you want.If you don't believe in God you can give an affirmation.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Perhaps it was influenced by Jewish and Christian scripture...

Not right unless you prove this point for further discussion. Islam is the message of Ibrahim was relived to him ...passed to Moses, Jesus, Mohammed PBU Them not a new religion.

Quran talks a about Figs and Olives - none of them grow in Mecca..Most likely Syrian landscape!

Quran also talk about Palms, Lentil, onion, grape, basil....the Quran talks also about places e.g Makkah, Madianh, Egypt, Babel, Irm....the Quran talks about animals, things, the moon, the sun, stars, clouds, mountains..talks about N disasters earthquake, storm, and so on...

Analysis: Saudi Arabia's war between god and archaeology - Telegraph


There is no archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca is an ancient town that existed before the Christian era, or even that it existed before about the 4th century A.D.
Try a Google like - archaeology of mecca - or other related searches.
Here's a Wikipedia article on Ancient Towns in Saudi Arabia. Mecca is not on the list because there is no evidence of Mecca being an ancient town.

ARCHAEOLOGY OF MECCA

Go back to the The Torah and Injel and the story of Ibrahim. that should give you a hint about Makkah in the History

Are you secular or atheist.? or happene to be Anti-islam suddenly!

 

[majesticpankaj]

Nice discussion...thoroughly enjoyed.

 

[Patriots]

Why don't you read the previous post before jump into to the discussion.What I said was perfectly relevant to the person it was meant to.

Dear I read all initial post ... You just have been doing bull **** ..

 

[Patriots]

My argument was comparison between Secular Ideology & Religious (any) Ideology and in my point of view Religious Ideologies are far better and comprehensive than Secularism. Among the religions - My belief is that Islamic ideology better address all aspects of personal and social as compared to other religions (non-Muslims will disagree that's why i said it's debatable) but one thing is for sure the Shariah which these mullahs want to enforce that's not Islam but purely politics.

Islam is not a mullahism ... If you wanna to get something you have to go directly towards Quran & Hadith ... Insha-Allah you will find excellent laws to living ..

 

[Xestan]

Your understanding of Jizyah is flawed
At no point is it "extortion"..otherwise General sales tax is extortion.
In peacetime Jizyah is equivalent to zakat for collection.

Jizyah is equivalent to war bonds or war tax on non-combatants(in addition to taxes by the state).. because it was generally assumed that non-Muslims from conquered lands(or otherwise) would not be fighting on the side of Muslims and hence when they come under Muslim rule and are not taking part in conflict(losing lives.. etc) they are liable to pay tax.

If it was simply extortion for protection then there would be no welfare provided apart from just protection.

Adding to that, Jizya is just same as Zakat, with a different name and more benefits. Zakat is given by the Muslim citizens while Jizya is given by Non-Muslims, and in return the Non-Muslims are exempted from joining the Army and fighting for the Muslim state, and they enjoy every right as the Muslims do. The Jizya is not a compulsory tax for those non-Muslims who can't pay, as in the case of Zakat, Jizya is also a very small amount of one's earnings. A very balanced way of taxing.

And yes, Jizya and Zakat are the only major taxes as there's no concept of Income tax in Islam.

 

[Patriots]

So - What's the punishment of bribe, breaking someones nose, or backing off from agreements etc. Give me verses of Quran

Which thing you couldn't find in Quran try to get it from Hadith ... Because is also words of Allah ... Rasullullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Aalehi Wassalam) said that he always talks with Allah's own ..

 

[INDIC]

Adding to that, Jizya is just same as Zakat, with a different name and more benefits. Zakat is given by the Muslim citizens while Jizya is given by Non-Muslims, and in return the Non-Muslims are exempted from joining the Army and fighting for the Muslim state, and they enjoy every right as the Muslims do. The Jizya is not a compulsory tax for those non-Muslims who can't pay, as in the case of Zakat, Jizya is also a very small amount of one's earnings. A very balanced way of taxing.

And yes, Jizya and Zakat are the only major taxes as there's no concept of Income tax in Islam.

Jaziya was a discriminatory tax. Compared to zakat, Jaziya was more burdensome and taxpayers of Jaziya were often beaten-up by the tax-collecting clerics. That's why we Hindus admire Akbar the Great for abolishing Jaziya

 

[Xestan]

Jaziya was a discriminatory tax. Compared to zakat, Jaziya was more burdensome and taxpayers of Jaziya were often beaten-up by the tax-collecting clerics. That's why we Hindus admire Akbar the Great for abolishing Jaziya

Kindly present some proofs to support the bold part. How the Mughals did with Non-Muslims is not being discussed here, although I don't believe people were beaten up for not paying tax. Anyways, topic is the Islamic tax of Jizya. Its true nature.