‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[BATMAN]

Quran is book of guidance not law

Quran is every thing.. guidance, law, science, knowledge....

 

[Dubious]

Yes but you were defending that Zaravan guy's post which said 'Everything non-Muslim is kufr, you're either with us or against us.'

There is no with or without you! Seriously? We have to take sides?

 

[KRAIT]

Quran is every thing.. guidance, law, science, knowledge....

But many people misinterpreted it.

There are so many good followers. Hope they can guide these people who took the message in wrong way.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Accounts of judgements for spared and executed individuals of Banu Qurayzah during the Prophets time as one example.

1st - the torah was suggested when the punishment as per torah was death, you are trying to look for principle here. Imagine in a dispute between a muslim and non muslim and the non muslim was to be punished, and then he was given the choice of a ''lighter'' punishment as per his beliefs - THAT would be a principle - do you have such an example? Because as per the example you sighted the punishment was death under islamic as well as jewish laws, hardly a choice. Besides, there is no guidance on when such a choice is to be offered.

2nd - the torah is also a religious book, so it does not show implicit secularism anywhere.

 

[Sugarcane]

Janab Quran has complete laws how to spend life ... Whatever you want ..

So - What's the punishment of bribe, breaking someones nose, or backing off from agreements etc. Give me verses of Quran

 

[Dubious]

But many people misinterpreted it.

There are so many good followers. Hope they can guide these people who took the message in wrong way.

The problem with the misguided is they do not see themselves wrong!

EGO has fogged their judgement of right and wrong and has indeed convinced them that they know it all!

 

[BATMAN]

But many people misinterpreted it.

There are so many good followers. Hope they can guide these people who took the message in wrong way.

No one misinterpret it, provided you have read it once!

 

[KS]

There laws were for all time.. the question is of the interpretation of these laws.
The Quran has the laws.. it was the interpretation of their application that was different.
Chopping off a hand is still a very good deterrent for theft. but the way to gather evidence for that is not.. nor was that set in stone.

Precisely..With the vague and sometimes contradictory laws, what we have is an immense scope for (mis)using the same to settle scores based on personal vendettas/bias. So if we have a better law which gives a more fool proof method to solve the same crime is not better to move towards that rather than persisting with the old one which might not be suitable for modern day ?

But my point was not that, the previous part of the post was slightly on tangent - my main point was to those who are ridiculing Zarvan that secularism is completely compatible with Islam. No it is not. Islam tells people how to run a govt. If you dont follow that then that is un-Islamic. If you follow it, then it is not secular.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Laws from medivial Arabia cannot be applied today beside much of the Islamic laws were learned from the Romans, Persians and other civilizations surrounding Arabia!

And the Quran was revealed to Khosrau

 

[KS]

You are so confused about your own faith, it bothers me.

He is right. A religious person can be a tolerant one, but not secular. Secularism means religious considerations do not affect your judgement. A religious person's actions are influenced by his religious considerations, thus making him non-secular. But nevertheless he can be a tolerant person. People should not confuse between tolerance and secularism. Governments can be secular while individuals can be tolerant unless he/she is an atheist/agnostic.

 

[BATMAN]

So - What's the punishment of bribe, breaking someones nose, or backing off from agreements etc. Give me verses of Quran

It is all given.. in very comprehensive way... regarding agreements, hurting some one, and bribe is declared haram.

 

[Sugarcane]

Quran is every thing.. guidance, law, science, knowledge....

Quran is surely guidance for all aspects of life but not Law. Law means you describe the crimes and their punishments, Quran tells you what's wrong and you shouldn't do, their punishments on day of judgement, there is no punishment written which you can give in the world, except guidance (However Murder is exception and guidance about making law for murder is written in very detail)

 

[Xestan]

I'm not a secularist, I believe in pan-Islamisn and even then I've been attacked verbally by many. Both the religious and liberal extremists. Here in Pakistan, we have a real issue with intolerance, I have no issues if someone has secular thoughts as long as he's peaceful, and the same goes for religious people.

We need to have tolerance for difference of opinion.

 

[BATMAN]

The last verse from Surah Fatehah is enough to explain all about it.

I always like to read in full... complete surrah

شروع الله کے نام سے جو بڑا مہربان نہایت رحم والا ہے (۱&#65279
سب تعریفیں الله کے لیے ہیں جو سب جہانوں کا پالنے والا ہے (۲&#65279 بڑا مہربان نہایت رحم والا (۳&#65279 جزا کے دن کا مالک (۴&#65279 ہم تیری ہی عبادت کرتے ہیں اور تجھ ہی سے مدد مانگتے ہیں (۵&#65279 ہمیں سیدھا راستہ دکھا (۶&#65279 اُن لوگوں کا راستہ جن پر تو نے انعام کیا نہ جن پر تیرا غضب نازل ہوا اور نہ وہ گمراہ ہوئے (۷&#65279

 

[Solomon2]

either you are with law of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW or you are with law of kufr

Binary logic fails when there are multiple interpretations of scripture. For example, it's well known that Muhammed was a merchant, yet the fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran that dominated Islam centuries later was driven by the viewpoint of landlords and monarchs. So how can you possibly be confident that you've got it right rather than being a kufr yourself?