Acts of Terrorism in pakistan I

[Adux]

"You and your kind"

Oh shucks...bambi

 

[Ababeel]

Of course. India must be behind all this!

India was also the cause of WWII.

Remember the Swatika?

India sure inspires the world. Great country, I must say!

Only thing is it was a cockeyed Swastika. I am sure you will say that the West is full of idiots!

I am sure that will give immense delight to your troubled soul!

Sadly Musharraf does not feel the way you do, but then I reckon you sure must be knowing the Taliban better. Not that I am suggesting you are one.

India with a thinking of future Superpower always try to impose itself on its neighbours. Almost all of them have suffered whether Nepal, Bangkadesh, Bhutan or Oakistan etc. It has great plans to destroy Pakistan with the help of NA controlled Afghanistan. For this purpose it has set up a chain of consulates in provinces of Afghanistan bordering Pakistan to carry out spying, training of terrorists and suicide bombers belonging to the anti pakistan NA,\ and funding of their activities to destroy Pakistan.

 

[Chrome9]

I think the problem with Madrassa education is not that the material they study does not require hard work, but that the education is so unidimensional, throughout the educational life of the child/teen, that they grow up ignorant of the complexities and diversity of the world.

When you talk about the absence of a "proper life outside the Madrassa", it is not the fault of society that the administrators of these Madrassa's chose not to educate them in any thing other than "Islamic theology". Why should a bank, an engineering firm, a software house hire a person whose mind has only been exposed to, and trained in, Islam? That was the reason Musharraf wanted to introduce mathematics and the sciences into Madrassa curriculum, so that this stigma the Taliba face could be diminished as they too are able to compete in a modern, technology based world. You know very well what the response of most of the Madrassa's was. Even those that agreed, wanted the money, but no oversight.

If the Madrassa's choose to restrict their curriculum to only that which you stated in your post, then the only opportunities for them will continue to remain the "neighborhood mosque", or the odd job as a Persian/Urdu/Arabic interpreter. Don't blame society for this. The Madrassa's have the money, if they don't, the government has offered the money provided they accept oversight (which is a completely reasonable demand). The ball is in the Madrassa's court, will they choose to reform and once more become bastions of education, or remain ossified in preaching their unidimensional world view?

Beleive me AM I'd be glad to see madrassah's reformed and have proper oversight and monitoring by the government. I'd be glad to see more current academic cources introduced in the Madrassah's. It is definately possible, take a case study of Uk madrassah's. There students also go through Hifz and Alim courses, whilst also giving mandatory GCSE examinations. But as you said Pakistan doesn't have a perfect education system, but then again when was anything about Pakistan ever supposed to be perfect? When 40% of the population can't read a newspaper and Pakistani higher education is in the current state the last thing one worries about is that Madrassah's dont have the latest core duo processor computers!
The thing about Pakistan is not perfecting but trying to scrape through something tangible through the meagre resources available. I am well aware the Maulana's of these Madrassah's are doing thre utmost to stop any interference of any sorts, but that does not mean the government should stop what it is trying to, Never should they take away the platform of dialogue and I genuinly beleive that many Madrassah's can reform given the proper chance with commitment by society and the government.
What one must understand that due to their nature Madrassah's will almost always be undimentional, but the injection of critical thinking and exposure to other school of thoughts can be slowly and minutley be implemented.
The thing about Life after Madrassah is the integration of these taliba, integration is always requires a two pronged approach. Both the outsider group needs to adapt and the mainstream society needs to accept. We can do our job wether they do theirs or not is not the issue.
Again what i'm saying is not anything critical or revlotionary, the government has pretty much implemented all the above, they've recognised the Alim degree as a BA, At FSc courses and university inducion Hafiz-e-quran get slightly better treatment, the governemt has also been willing to donate funds providing they agree to oversight.
Now if the government which has been at war with these people can take such steps then why do mainstream Pkaistani's resort to calling these guys "uneducated" and "a maulvi doing Maulvi courses"? To me that screams ignorance and prejudice.
My point is and remains that these Taliba are perfectly educated and deserve recognition and integration whilst Madrassah's can be considered educational institions. I am the first one to agree that both these need alot of working on and arn't perfect.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

India with a thinking of future Superpower always try to impose itself on its neighbours. Almost all of them have suffered whether Nepal, Bangkadesh, Bhutan or Oakistan etc. It has great plans to destroy Pakistan with the help of NA controlled Afghanistan. For this purpose it has set up a chain of consulates in provinces of Afghanistan bordering Pakistan to carry out spying, training of terrorists and suicide bombers belonging to the anti pakistan NA,\ and funding of their activities to destroy Pakistan.

One has to live in the contemporary age.

If destruction of established countries was that easy then there would be only ashes dotting the world.

Paranoia has it place, but it should not cramp rationality and Be beyond the realm of reality.

To wit, if one is seized with an understanding of world affairs and it effects, one would observe that the mighty US has failed in Iraq to impose its writ. Therefore, to expect India to destroy Pakistan is a mere day dream.

One must understand that Pakistan is a sovereign nation and is no push over. Therefore, to feel that one can crush and destroy Pakistan is like stating that brontosauruses will inhabit the world again! Such an idea would be an ideal theme for the next Harry Potter book because it would be an out of the real world contention!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

[

'Troops killed' in Pakistan clash


Ten militants and four Pakistani soldiers have been killed in a shootout near the Afghan border, reports say.

The Pakistani army said the deaths occurred at an army checkpoint in the North Waziristan region, and that four soldiers were also wounded.

When will Sense Dawn on these Malcontent?

Pakistan blast kills five people

Pakistani soldiers have often been attacked in Waziristan
A suicide car bomb has killed at least five people and wounded 20 others in Pakistan's tribal North West Frontier province.

Are they true Moslems?

Many may feel that Musharraf is just doing things to please the USA.

They couldn't be more wrong.

Here are unemployed malcontent, who are misusing Islam, to kill Moslems.

Is that justified?

What is more important? Progress and being world leaders or delving in theology? If theology can fill stomachs and rid all the ills of the world, then one could understand.

It is all done to subjugate the people for the power of the unlettered Mullahs!

Who has given the Divine Right to the terrorists to decide what is Islam. Blasted Wahhabis.

Musharraf is right to attempt to break the shackles of the Mullahs who are taking all to the medieval age!

I say more power to people like Musharraf!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fears of break-up of Wafaq-ul-Madaris
By M. Waqar Bhatti

Karachi

The country’s top clerics and seminary leaders are meeting on Monday amid fears of disintegration of their supreme body- the Wafaq-ul-Madaris - over the Lal Masjid operation, as anger mounts over the role played by the body.

A group of hard liners within the Deobandi school is angry over the role of the clerics involved with the Wafaq-ul-Madaris and is calling for protests and initiating a movement against the government.

Sources within the Ulema in Karachi told The News that an emergent meeting of the Majlis-e-Shura of Wafaq-ul-Madaris has been summoned at its headquarters in Multan on Monday to discuss the Lal Masjid issue and adopt a unanimous stand against the government’s controversial military action.

It is learnt that the majority of the students of seminaries have threatened to boycott their forthcoming final exams, scheduled for August 11 all over the country unless their mentors come up with some action plan to avenge the killings.

“The situation at seminaries is highly tense and students are no longer in the control of Ulema and their teachers. Instead of preparing for their final exams, they are planning for country-wide protests and violent action against the authorities,” head of a local seminary disclosed.

He observed that if the Majlis-e-Shura of the supreme body failed to come up with decisions, it could jeopardise the existence of the Wafaq.

“Maulana Abdur Rasheed Ghazi and his followers, killed in the military operation, are taken as martyrs by majority of religious students and now everybody wanted to follow them. Same is the opinion of some Ulema, who are calling for an uprising against the government,” he claimed.

The hard line group of clerics comprises Maulana Abdul Rauf Farooqui, Dr Sher Ali Shah and Maulana Noor-ul-Huda. They have the support of a majority of prominent seminaries in Sindh, Punjab and NWFP. However, a group of moderate clerics seeks dissociation of component seminaries of the Wafaq from all kinds of political activities.

A member of the said group, who requested not to be named, said that although Wafaq-ul-Madaris was an examination board, it remained involved in political activities for quite some time. ìAnd when it was time to play their role in the crisis of Lal Masjid, the Wafaq miserably failed to do anything, disappointing not only its members but its followers and sympathisers as well” he claimed.

“Some important clerics including Wafaq’s chief Maulana Saleemullah Khan and Qari Hanif Jalandhri may tender their resignations at the start of Monday meeting to clam down the annoyed group” a senior cleric said. But analysts closely monitoring the activities of clerics and seminary students fear that the country could witness sharp rise in incidents of extremism and violent activities if something was not done by the leading prominent scholars of Deabandi school of thought to calm down their followers.

Chrome:

What exactly would you have society do? While your argument that change shall occur when "the twain shall meet", that is, societal acceptance and Madrassa reform, is valid, I believe that society's non acceptance of the Madrassa stems from the existence of attitudes and activities, such as the ones in the article. Madrassa's have historically been accorded respect and acceptance in the mainstream of society, as far as I know; The deterioration of their reputation has primarily occurred in recent years, as they have shrouded themselves in an atmosphere of segregation, by pursuing an ideology that is isolationist and dogmatic.

For society to accept them, they will have to prove that they have chosen to shun such ideology. At their core, Pakistanis love their religion, they want to trust and respect their scholars and Ulema, but not when they preach such hate, violence and segregation. They were accepted and respected by society once; they betrayed that trust, it is their responsibility to regain it.

 

[niaz]

So finally the society is heading for a collision course??. The responsibility of blood bath if any lies with the media. I maintain that majority of the anchormen and Urdu press journalists are in sympathy with the religious extremists. Media is free but it is being used as a propaganda tool by the fundamentalists. Each news item is given an anti Govt spin.

Even eminent Islamic scholars such as Dr Israr Ahmad openly admit of revolutionery politics. I am amazed at the lies that poilitcal parties preach in their TV discusions. Roedad Khan of ANP was saying last night that there was no terrorism in Pakistan before 9/11. Has every one forgotton what was happening in Karachi during BB's second term ( MQM factional fight) or attacks on Shia Imam bargahs and Sunni mosques. What about massacre at the Momenpura graveyard in Lahore?? A bomb was found under a bridge on the way to Jati Umrah during Nawaz Shahrif period.

By each day I am getting more and depressed for the future of Pakistan as a state. It looks we are heading towards an abyss of civil war between religious bigots and rest of society. No one can deny that bigots will win; not because they are in the majority but because they are ruthless and ready to blow themselves up. Pakistan would possibly still remain in one piece ( because it is too hot for a third country) but it would not be the one that I love and spent my early years in. It would be a living hell as Afghanistan was under Taliban. Supportes of Madrassa education would, however, probably love such a hell hole. No political party seems to give a damn; suppose they will wake up when it is beyond redemption. Do people of Pakistan deserve it( ?? ) may be.

 

[IceCold]

Sir niaz just want to disagree on one thing with you, why do you think that religious bigots will win over the other majority, the more they blow themselves the more hatred they get from liberal side. I dont believe that a normal everyday pakistani would want something like the talibans. The role of our political parties are really shamefull they dont bother about anything, just one thing how to destabilize the government whether its this current government or the ones in the past. Havent seen them agreeing even on one single issue. What a shame.Pakistan is going through tought times and the unity within the whole nation today is needed more then ever needed in the past and this is not the time for personal sayasaat but for the nation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So finally the society is heading for a collision course??. The responsibility of blood bath if any lies with the media. I maintain that majority of the anchormen and Urdu press journalists are in sympathy with the religious extremists. Media is free but it is being used as a propaganda tool by the fundamentalists. Each news item is given an anti Govt spin.

Even eminent Islamic scholars such as Dr Israr Ahmad openly admit of revolutionery politics. I am amazed at the lies that poilitcal parties preach in their TV discusions. Roedad Khan of ANP was saying last night that there was no terrorism in Pakistan before 9/11. Has every one forgotton what was happening in Karachi during BB's second term ( MQM factional fight) or attacks on Shia Imam bargahs and Sunni mosques. What about massacre at the Momenpura graveyard in Lahore?? A bomb was found under a bridge on the way to Jati Umrah during Nawaz Shahrif period.

I agree completely Niaz Sahib.

By each day I am getting more and depressed for the future of Pakistan as a state. It looks we are heading towards an abyss of civil war between religious bigots and rest of society. No one can deny that bigots will win; not because they are in the majority but because they are ruthless and ready to blow themselves up. Pakistan would possibly still remain in one piece ( because it is too hot for a third country) but it would not be the one that I love and spent my early years in. It would be a living hell as Afghanistan was under Taliban. Supportes of Madrassa education would, however, probably love such a hell hole. No political party seems to give a damn; suppose they will wake up when it is beyond redemption. Do people of Pakistan deserve it( ?? ) may be.

While I understand and share your despondency about Pakistan, in the light of recent events, I disagree that we will fail to the extent of Afghanistan or even Iraq. The fissures, decay and hate that permeate those societies, and have led to their free fall into the "abyss of civil war" and destruction, do not exist to the same extent in Pakistan at this moment. As IceCold suggested, the violence of the bigots will only serve to alienate them from the rest of society and spread the mistrust and dislike for them to even larger sections of society.

As much as I hate to say this, Pakistanis need to feel a sense of ownership for their government. It is a sense that seems to have eroded from the minds of most recently of them, and perhaps the only way to overcome this will be the relegation of Musharraf to a less visible role. The need of the hour is to ensure that the elections are truly held in a manner that the Pakistani population, the political parties and international observers feel is free and fair. At least the bogeyman of "dictatorship", being the root cause of all our ills, will vanish. Pakistanis will then have to reconcile themselves with the fact that the monster threatening to overwhelm our nation, will not be sated until it accomplishes just that.

 

[Bull]

The parliament refuses to condemn the recent bombings in Pakistan...BBC reports. This points to sharp divisions that exists inside Pakistan right now.

 

[niaz]

Another poignant article published in todays Dawn


Tracing the roots of the malaise




By Qazi Faez Isa


THE Lal Masjid incident is symbolic of the malaise afflicting Pakistan and has the potential of tearing the country apart. Understanding the affliction and how it came to spread in the body politic is the first step before administering a prescription.

The roots of the malady can be traced back to 1979, the events of this tumultuous year proved defining in the development of Muslim societies.

On February 1, 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini, spearheading the revolution, returned to Iran after the Shah fled. On April 4, 1979, the military government of General Ziaul Haq executed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the elected prime minister of Pakistan. Whilst clergy rule in Iran had popular support, General Ziaul Haq’s anointment was a marriage of convenience between the military and the mullahs with little or no public support.

On November 20, 1979, Islam’s holiest site, the Kaaba, was taken over by heavily armed extremists, led by Juhayman al Otaibi. Juhayman alleged that the ruling Al-Saud dynasty had lost its legitimacy having become corrupt, ostentatious and westernised. Armed intrusion into the holy site was made in the name of Islam, despite Quranic strictures against violence and bloodshed within the area of Al Masjid-Al Haram in Makkah.

Shah Khalid secured a fatwa (religious opinion) from the ulema after three days permitting the use of arms in the holy place, but the Saudi Arabian National Guards failed to regain control despite many casualties. The Saudi government then called upon the Pakistani forces stationed in Saudi Arabia for assistance. In the ensuing battle, 250 people died and 600 were wounded.

The Pakistani military action proved successful. Juhayman was killed and his fellow rebels who survived were handed over to the Saudi authorities. Except for one all 123 militants were publicly beheaded and their executions were broadcast live.

The only person released was the influential Mahrous bin Laden (Osama bin Laden’s half brother) who had assisted the rebels in smuggling weapons into Makkah in trucks belonging to the Bin Laden family companies. Guns were smuggled into the area of the Kaaba in coffins, and bullets came wrapped in dates.

On November 20, 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini stated in a broadcast that the United States of America was behind the seizure of the Kaaba. On November 21, 1979, an enraged mob in Islamabad, after a five hour siege of the US embassy, destroyed it. That day all security personnel in Islamabad had been deployed to protect General Ziaul Haq, who was taking a bicycle ride.

Juhayman distributed pamphlets (printed in Kuwait) entitled ‘Saba Rasail’ (‘Seven Letters&#8217 outlining the basic tenets of his violent and extremist ideology. A similar ideology was espoused by those in control of the Lal Masjid. Islamic teachings should be employed to expose these flawed ideologies. The 1979 Makkah events demonstrate that even a small unknown extremist group can hold a state hostage and rupture society.

In December 1979 the Soviet military invaded and occupied Afghanistan. The US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia came together to fight the Soviets and the Moscow-backed Marxist regime. Jihadis or Mujahideens were recruited for the purpose. Washington provided the weapons and training, Riyadh funnelled the money and Islamabad the crucial ground and logistics support. The outcome was a resounding success for the Americans as the only competing superpower keeled over and sank.

However, Pakistan did not benefit from this historic moment. Instead, the country was inundated with guns and heroin, and some in the army became fabulously rich. General Zia and his coterie also sought to perpetuate themselves and commenced the transformation of state institutions and the political landscape, digging their heels into the peoples’ flanks after subjugating them.

Judges of the superior judiciary were required to take an oath of loyalty to General Zia. The independence of the judiciary was further corroded by creating a parallel system of courts, the three tiered Sharia courts. National unity and cohesion were ruptured by the duplicitous use of religion, and masquerading laws in Islamic terminology (Hudood, Qisas and Diyat Ordinances and Qanun-i-Shahadat Order), but which in fact parodied Islam. Zia divided society vertically and horizontally.The Constitution was amended and for the first time since the country’s creation, and contrary to all that the Quaid professed, separate electorates for Muslims and adherents of other faiths, were introduced.

National political parties were targeted whilst parochial, ethnic and regional parties were encouraged. Sectarian beliefs of citizens, too, became the business of the state. For instance, only those belonging to a particular sect were compelled to pay zakat. Zia’s religious mentors drew their religious inspiration from centres embedded in India, whose followers had openly opposed Jinnah and his Muslim League.

General Zia aligned himself with extremist forces to counter the challenge from mainstream political forces. He used the state’s security and intelligence apparatus to both support and create militant entities. He gave possession of the Lal Masjid land to the two brothers, who in the heart of the capital flouted the state and its laws. The brothers gained further strength when a stalwart of this government and son of the same army chief intervened to stop criminal cases being registered against them after illegal and prohibited weapons were discovered in their vehicle.

It was not surprising that Ejazul Haq was delegated to liaise with the two brothers, his father and he having created the phenomenon that they had become. GHQ, too, felt comfortable that the matter was attended to by the son of its former chief. But extremism spurned the favours that had been bestowed and Ejazul Haq failed miserably.

For Zia, the state always came second. Political forces were squashed whilst those brandishing guns (whether pseudo religious, ethnic, sectarian or tribal) were encouraged. This was without precedent; division and extremism is anathema to any state, government or authority. Extremism from the earliest times has plagued Muslim societies, but in our case the rulers themselves fed and encouraged it.

Members of a ‘puritanical’ Muslim sect, that came to be known as the Kharijis, would murder anyone, including the companions of the Prophet (PBUH), whom they thought were not following the ‘true path’.

Abdul Rahman ibn Muljam struck a blow to Hazrat Ali’s head, cleaving his skull, in the mosque of Kufah during Ramazan in the 40th year of the Hijra. Four years earlier, the third caliph Hazrat Usman ibn Affan was quietly reciting the Quran at home when he too was murdered by a Muslim.

The Kharijis resolutely stuck to their extremist views making no concessions; self-righteousness, narrow vision, an obdurate mind and a constricted heart resulted in unbridled hate. This is the same attitude that one finds reflected in the mindset of the Lal Masjid brigade and all those who seek compulsion in religion, forgetting Quranic proscriptions to the contrary.

Stratocracy not only runs Pakistan but has become its principal thinker and strategist, however, regrettably without the prerequisite knowledge of Islam and history. Skewed doctrines like ‘strategic depth’ that emanate from deep within the intellectual brain of the nation (the ISI) perish when put to the test. The extremist ideology and groups that General Ziaul Haq employed have begun to undermine the state. These very entities have come back to bite the hand that fed them. Former proxies are turning rogue; Zia’s instruments are now in business for themselves.

Extremists are committed to overthrowing the government and destroying Pakistan, but the government continues to live in a fool’s paradise and views the Pakistan People’s Party and the genuine Pakistan Muslim League as its enemies. Is it not time to openly invite the leadership of Pakistan’s two main political parties into the country to help develop national consensus against extremism and violence in all its forms (including its secular version that was witnessed in Karachi on May 12)?

Closeted in secret negotiations, bartering the state for personal benefits is abhorrent to the people. Citizens need to be involved and empowered to shake off the monster of extremism. Leaders with petty personal interests will not douse the suicide bomber’s determination to his cause.

The people of Pakistan want to know from General Musharraf, Shaukat Aziz, the military, ISI, et al, whether the legacy of General Ziaul Haq will continue to be honoured or will Pakistan and its people be placed first, since it has been irrefutably established that both are diametrically opposite.


http://www.dawn.com/2007/08/06/op.htm

At least someone in Pakistan has views that are close to my own. The author correctly points out that Zia drew inspiration fron the religious parties in India which were opposed to creation of Pakistan in the first place. JUI ( Fazlur Rahman) and JI ( Qazi Hussain Ahmad), the parties that form bulk of MMA are such parties and belong to Deobandi school of India. You can understand why these people are a law to themselves as they care nothing about the state of Pakistan.


The comparison of Lal Masjid mob to Khaarjis is also very apt. Just as Khaarjis believed everyone else, including Imam Ali ( RAA) to be misguided. So did Lal Masjid goondas.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Despondency should not set in.

One must ensure that action is taken by each individua,l in his own little way, to see that the people who are bent on taking Pakistan into the Stone Age are made redundant.

A very good article from the DAWN.

 

[A.Rahman]

wow, you have done it again Mr niaz ! great find

well researched & moving article; hope that the "burka fancy boys" read this article too.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Indeed a good articles----only this time around Musharraf does not have the cojones to execute the culprits.

It is sad and I have been disappointed that a millitary general does not have the courage to punish the criminals.

On th other hand the media, which was asking for the mullah's blood one day---turned on the government. Fascinating though it is ----- how the mighty shal fall-----the coming end of the chaudhries of gujrat Shujaat Hussain and co.

 

[BATMAN]

At least someone in Pakistan has views that are close to my own.

Dear Sir, I always wished that there should be pressure group of think tanks in Pakistan comprising people like you. Why not use forum or media like this to group together and form a group of analysts whom people or rulers listen care fully and get benifited.
Who discuss issues among themselve and issue a final united desicion on difficult issues.
Shall we take a start from this forum, Pakistan is in a political crisis and in war like situation, this is the moment for us to get united!