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Featured Acquisitions And Upgrades Could Give Greece’s Air Force A Formidable Edge Over Turkey

Turkiye is increasingly under threat, in a neighborhood, that is totally hostile and leveraging this stance to gain more sophisticated and cutting edge weaponry. It is becoming increasingly clear why Turkiye would seek strategic weapons and WMD's. Greeks and Israelis both brandishing F-35s are a source of regional instability now... further egged on by the French brinksmanship...
All these have old scores to settle and time not with them... besides a geopolitical juggle that may easily turn sour.
Can these alliances hold? How long before open hostility?
 
If acquisitions were the key India would have had the strongest air force in Pak's neighborhood....

The Turkish 1st Army is enough to take the Greek mainland within a week...

The Greek fighters won't even understand what has hit them, thanks to the Turkish indigenous EW, BVR A2A missiles etc. capabilities....

Sir if I am not wrong even AESA radar for F16s is in final stages made by Turkish company domestically.
 
Greece is doing the same propoganda as Indians. They will get Rafael and TuAF will sit at home completely terrified by the Rafaels.
Just like Indians they are forgetting the fact that inducting a new platform requires alot of time to master to be actually effective in any kind of conflict. It is not like buying a new car with all the super duper feature that you can drive away.
And their 84 F-16 are getting upgraded which will complete in 2027 by then TuAf will be doing nothing for sure. Whether it is F-16 or F-35
 
So Greece will buy and upgrade and be a super duper force by the end of the decade; and Turkey is expected to sit still twiddling its thumbs?

And if that's the kind of comparison being done, why stop at 2030? By 2050 Greece would have 6th Gen, how will Turkish F16 fare against them :disagree:
 

Sep 3, 2020,
These Acquisitions And Upgrades Could Give Greece’s Air Force A Formidable Edge Over Turkey
Paul IddonContributor
Aerospace & Defense

Greece’s goals to acquire new fighter jets and upgrade its existing air force could see the Hellenic Air Force (HAF) attain a very formidable qualitative edge over its Turkish rival by the end of the 2020s.

Greece and Turkey are presently locked in an increasingly tense and dangerous standoff in the Aegean Sea and Eastern Mediterranean over hydrocarbon drilling rights and the delineation of their maritime boundaries.


Amid these tensions, Athens is in negotiations with its ally France over future arms deals that might include the procurement of formidable French 4.5-generation Dassault Rafale jets. Greek possession of such jets could pose a significant challenge to Turkish jets over the Aegean and Mediterranean.

“We are in talks with France, and not only with France, in order to increase our country’s defense potential,” a Greek official told Reuters in early September, adding that these talks include “the purchase of aircraft.”

Greek media previously claimed that both countries had already reached a deal for a sale of 18 Rafale jets, although this is unconfirmed and seems quite dubious for now.

The HAL already operates a small fleet of French-built Mirage 2000-5s.


It’s worth noting that this isn’t the first instance this year in which Greece has shown an interest in substantially upgrading its air force with more modern jets.

Greek Defense Minister Nikos Panagiotopoulos said in January, following a visit by the country’s prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis to Washington, that Greece plans to procure at least 24 stealthy fifth-generation F-35 Lightning II fighter jets from the United States for $3 billion.

Panagiotopoulos expects that the lengthy acquisition process would begin after 2024.

The defense minister went so far as to say that Greece’s acquisition of F-35s would help it achieve “air superiority over Turkey” in the not-too-distant future.

He was echoed by Turkish journalist Haluk Özdalga who went so far as to say that HAL F-35s could enable Greece to turn the Aegean into a “Greek lake.”

Additionally, Özdalga said, Greek F-35s would mean “balances can be turned upside down in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East, including Cyprus.”

Athens is also in the process of upgrading its air force’s existing inventory.

Greece has just over 150 F-16s while Turkey has 245. In December, Panagiotopoulos said that 84 HAL F-16s will be updated to the latest Viper standard by 2027 as part of a $1.5 billion deal with manufacturer Lockheed Martin LMT.

Completing that upgrade would undoubtedly give that large portion of Greece’s F-16 fleet a qualitative edge over their quantitatively superior Turkish counterpart, which operates the Block 30, 40, and 50 variants of that iconic fighter jet.

According to Lockheed Martin, upon completion of this upgrade program, “HAF F-16Vs will be the most advanced F-16s in Europe.”


Greece also signed contracts with French aerospace companies to upgrade its smaller Mirage 2000-5 fleet during the same period. The contracts’ value is estimated to amount to €260 million (approximately $300 million).

All of this comes as Turkey is facing problems with procuring new aircraft and upgrading its existing fleet.

The United States suspended Turkey from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program for its acquisition of advanced Russian S-400 air defense missile systems in 2019. Turkey likely won’t receive the jet unless it completely removes the S-400s from its territory, which it’s not likely to do.

Furthermore, Turkey is unlikely going to be able to complete its fifth-generation TAI TF-X stealth fighter by the 2030s nor procure fifth-generation fighters from other countries, such as Russia, in the same period.

Turkey may even find it will have difficulty acquiring 4.5-generation fighters to serve as stopgap fighters until it can finally field fifth-generation jets.
And on top of all this, Ankara may well find it will have difficulty upgrading its existing fleet of fighter jets.

It was recently revealed that Congress secretly blocked arms deals to Turkey since 2018, reportedly including a contract for Lockheed Martin to structurally upgrade 35 of Turkey’s older Block 30 F-16 fighters to prolong their operational lifespan.

During this same period, Turkey began stockpiling spare parts for its F-16s out of fear it could face wide-ranging U.S. sanctions for its S-400 purchase.

Consequently, we may see a situation unfold wherein Turkey finds it increasingly difficult to maintain its large fleet of fourth-generation fighters whereas Greece, in stark contrast, successfully upgrades and enhances its fleet and attains more sophisticated fighters.


In that scenario, Turkish airpower would significantly lag behind that of its Greek neighbor and Ankara may find it increasingly difficult to contest its various maritime disputes with Athens militarily .


Turkey has 245 F-16s!?!! Wow!!! That's an astonishing number of Vipers to operate. If I didn't know any better, then F-16s form the backbone of the turkish air force. That would certainly be a cause of major concern for the Turks. The fact that they "frantically" (as per the article) began buying spare parts for F-16s. Tells us volumes in what major drawbacks any country faces when it's dependent western military hardware. As the saying goes, "they've got you by the balls!"

Having said that, I have my reservations about this tiff between turkey and america. I believe america is playing everyone for a fool, and I believe that america needs turkey. Since it's hard to pin the true nature of erdogan's policies. I would say that america is either going to find a compromise with the erdogan govt, or will try again and again to replace him with someone who will be a "yes sir" guy in Ankara.

Looking at Greece, well that's the other fool being played by the west, in the Mediterranean Sea. Having sunk it's economy with greedy, reckless and self-absorbed politicians (much like what we have in Pakistan), Greece political elite have all but sold their country to the so-called "Troika". Buying F-35s is one thing, having the requisite infrastructure, support logistics and maintenance of these golden ducklings (F-35s) is a totally different ordeal to contend with. Maintenance of these aircraft will most certainly "break the bank" of any third world country. Sorry to say, but Greece is Europe's third world country at the moment.
 
Sir if I am not wrong even AESA radar for F16s is in final stages made by Turkish company domestically.
You're right. Both AESA and EW-POD, based on the indigenous GaN technology, are projected to be put into the service by the next year. Couple it with the land-based KORAL and sea-based CAFRAD EW systems already being deployed. EW aircrafts are being going through integration phase. And, SIPER comprehensive AD system - covering low to high altitude - is being developed. The next in line is the AD destroyers.....

Already a French frigate has seen the Turkish EW, employed by a swarm of drones, capability as they got 100% locked! Now, they have sent their biggest "snake"....

Dear brothers of sisters in Islam, don't get "mesmerized" at the "illusion" of the Ehl-i Kufr! With 100% Iman, Ihlas,Yakin, and Tevakkul strike with the Stick of Hazret-i Musa (PBUH)!!! By HIS PERMISSION, it will turn into a bigger "snake" to gobble up the smaller illusory "snakes" of the Firaun the Cursed....

The Sefer is from us, but the Zafer is from Allah-u Azimushshan....
 
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Turkey has 245 F-16s!?!! Wow!!! That's an astonishing number of Vipers to operate. If I didn't know any better, then F-16s form the backbone of the turkish air force. That would certainly be a cause of major concern for the Turks. The fact that they "frantically" (as per the article) began buying spare parts for F-16s. Tells us volumes in what major drawbacks any country faces when it's dependent western military hardware. As the saying goes, "they've got you by the balls!"

Having said that, I have my reservations about this tiff between turkey and america. I believe america is playing everyone for a fool, and I believe that america needs turkey. Since it's hard to pin the true nature of erdogan's policies. I would say that america is either going to find a compromise with the erdogan govt, or will try again and again to replace him with someone who will be a "yes sir" guy in Ankara.

Looking at Greece, well that's the other fool being played by the west, in the Mediterranean Sea. Having sunk it's economy with greedy, reckless and self-absorbed politicians (much like what we have in Pakistan), Greece political elite have all but sold their country to the so-called "Troika". Buying F-35s is one thing, having the requisite infrastructure, support logistics and maintenance of these golden ducklings (F-35s) is a totally different ordeal to contend with. Maintenance of these aircraft will most certainly "break the bank" of any third world country. Sorry to say, but Greece is Europe's third world country at the moment.
The Turkish folks are proceeding with the Devlet Akl that has won them 22 Empires - some being the Super Powers of their times - surpassing all parts of the known world in the last two millenniums....

Do you think the Turkish Establishment hasn't done their homework???

Remember Kutubeddin Aybek! Sultan Ghori had failed to conquer Hindustan even after a number of campaigns! Then, he left the command to his Ma'nevi Evlat Aybek, and the rest is history....

Remember Babur Han! With only 6K troops he massacred the 100K strong force of Lodhi, thanks to his "intelligent" and "smart" usage of matchlocks and canons by his well trained marksmen and fast charging cavalry....
 
The one thing that Greeks dont understand about Trks is self reliance, look at Turkeys defence industry, how formidable they are and still growing
 
The one thing that Greeks dont understand about Trks is self reliance, look at Turkeys defence industry, how formidable they are and still growing
The problem is the Greeks don't even have to have their own defense industry because they will always be supplied with the latest European technology. Turkey has a much larger task because its supplies are not guaranteed, unlike Greece.
 
Israel already has a better air force than Turkey now Greece too will have a better air force.... Israeli Air force>Greece>Turkey. Maybe even UAE if they somehow get their hands on f-35.

Do you think Turkiye has no money to buy hundreds of Fighter Jets ?

between 2012 and 2020 Turkiye spent over $60 billion for humanitarian aid to muslim countries
Turkiye would buy Hellenic+Israeli+Egyptian+Emirati Airforces combined for $60 billion


Turkiye is not stupid to spent $45-50 billion for 100 American control useless F-35s
Thanks to president ERDOGAN who saved our $45-50 billion from American control useless F-35s



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in 10-15 years , Turkiye will have the strongest Army , Navy and Airforce in the region when around 700 Turkish Military project enter service


then Greece,Israel,The Uae combined will be squashed by upcoming Turkish Military Power


-- TFX Fighter Jet Project
-- T-129 , T-629 and ATAK-II Attack Helicopters
-- Bayraktar TB-2 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI and MIUS UCAVs
-- 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off Jammer Aircrafts
-- 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC
-- 12 Anti Submarine Warfare Aircrafts

-- ADA class stealth Corvettes
-- ISTIF class stealth Frigates
-- TF-2000 class Destroyers
-- TCG ANADOLU Amphibious Assault Ship
-- Aircraft Carrier
-- 6 Type-214TN class AIP class Submarines
-- MILDEN AIP class Submarine

-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems can jam Naval Radars from 200km away
-- 600 and 1.500 km ASELSAN Early Warning AESA Radars

-- RAMJET powered supersonic anti ship missile
-- Hypersonic anti ship Ballistic Missile
-- 70 km TRLG-230 laser guided supersonic Missiles for saturation attack on Warships
-- 250 km Turkish ATMACA land based anti ship Missile
-- 280 km SOM air launched stealth Cruise Missile
-- 800 km GEZGIN land and Naval based Cruise Missile
-- 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missile
-- 1.000 -2.500 km BORA Ballistic Missiles

-- KORKUT 35mm SPAAG
-- HISAR-O medium altitude Air Defense System
-- SIPER high altitude Air Defense System
-- S400 altitude Air Defense System
-- GUMS Anti Ballistic Missile Defense System
-- High energy LASER Weapons
-- Hypersonic Electromagnetic Rail Guns

-- BOZDOGAN WVR air to air Missile
-- GOKDOGAN BVR air to air Missile
-- AKDOGAN Ramjet powered long range air to air Missile

and Turkish UCAVs and F-16s will be armed with 110 km KUZGUN joint strike missile with IIR seeker and 120+ km MRASHM cruise missile with IIR seeker to hit even moving Warships

-- 1.500-2.000 km KARGI anti radiation Drone

and many more ...... Good luck to enemies ... they will need it
 
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1. Again; how capable would be Turkish F-16s in comparison to true Block 70/72 standard? Do you have any idea?


Greece will have 84 F-16V until 2028


and until 2028 Turkish F-16s also will have great capability as like block70/72


Turkiye spent $3,9 billion for CCIP modernization of 163 F-16C/D block 52 standart between 2011 and 2015

Link-16 System
National IFF System
Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suite (SPEWS II)
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVG)
Modular Mission Computer
Advanced interrogator/transponder
Integrated precision navigation
LCD Color MFDs
Improved AVTR System
Multifunctional Information Distribution System
High speed Anti-Radar Missile Targeting System
ASELPOD Targeting Pod

and most modern weapons

-- AIM-9x sidewinder
-- AIM-120C7
-- AGM-88 HARM
-- AGM-84 SLAM-ER
-- AGM-154 JSOW
-- 110 km KGK guided Bomb
-- 250+ km SOM Cruise Missile ( land attack/anti ship capabilities )


Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suite (SPEWS II)
1599311418136.png



Night Vision Cueing and Display (NVCD)
1599311527862.png







now Turkiye develops GaN based AESA Radar for F-16 block70 standart

Turkish giant defense company ASELSAN AESA radar could eventually compete with systems such as Northrop Grumman's APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar
1599311134827.png



also Turkiye has developed 65km GOKDOGAN air to air missile ..
and now Turkiye develops RAMJET powered long range networked air to air missile AKDOGAN ( similar to METEOR ) to carry by F-16s for BVR combat

and Thanks to network centric warfare capability of the Turkish Airforce .....
4 Boeing E-7T AEWC with 600km MESA Radar and in a few years , 600km EIRS early warning AESA Radars will be in service

also great Electronic Warfare capabilities with Turkish KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems , MEHPOD and EHPOD Jamming Pods ..... and by 2023 HAVASOJ airborne stand off Jammer Aircraft
 
You are reaching a number of terrible and wrong conclusions in your post.

1. Greece will upgrade 84 F-16s with AESA while Turkey can upgrade almost their entire fleet of F-16s. The Turkish upgrade might be slightly inferior, but not by a large margin.

2. Yes highways can be used, but what about getting munition and jet fuel delivered to them? If you are forced to use highways, your sortie rate will drop tremendously. With the geographic distance between Turkey and Greece, nowhere is really safe for the Greeks.

3. Using France for strike mission. Really? that is a laughable idea. the sortie rate would be so low, that it wouldn't make a difference.

4. France did NOT strike Turkish assets in Libya. Get that BS out of your mind.

5. A powerful missile force WILL make a difference. Especially, when the geographic distance is small. Turkish missiles will significantly reduce Greek sortie rates and destroy several dozens of aircrafts on the ground.

6. AGAIN. Greece lacks EW. Their Air Force will be blind in any serious engagements with TuAF.

7. Stop dreaming about Isreal and France joining to defend Greece. That will not happen.

Israel might not join to defend Greece. You cannot rule out European powers intervening.
 
Do you think Turkiye has no money to buy hundreds of Fighter Jets ?

between 2012 and 2020 Turkiye spent over $60 billion for humanitarian aid to muslim countries
Turkiye would buy Hellenic+Israeli+Egyptian+Emirati Airforces combined for $60 billion


Turkiye is not stupid to spent $45-50 billion for 100 American control useless F-35s
Thanks to president ERDOGAN who saved our $45-50 billion from American control useless F-35s



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in 10-15 years , Turkiye will have the strongest Army , Navy and Airforce in the region when around 700 Turkish Military project enter service


then Greece,Israel,The Uae combined will be squashed by upcoming Turkish Military Power


-- TFX Fighter Jet Project
-- T-129 , T-629 and ATAK-II Attack Helicopters
-- Bayraktar TB-2 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI and MIUS UCAVs
-- 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off Jammer Aircrafts
-- 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC
-- 12 Anti Submarine Warfare Aircrafts

-- ADA class stealth Corvettes
-- ISTIF class stealth Frigates
-- TF-2000 class Destroyers
-- TCG ANADOLU Amphibious Assault Ship
-- Aircraft Carrier
-- 6 Type-214TN class AIP class Submarines
-- MILDEN AIP class Submarine

-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems can jam Naval Radars from 200km away
-- 600 and 1.500 km ASELSAN Early Warning AESA Radars

-- RAMJET powered supersonic anti ship missile
-- Hypersonic anti ship Ballistic Missile
-- 70 km TRLG-230 laser guided supersonic Missiles for saturation attack on Warships
-- 250 km Turkish ATMACA land based anti ship Missile
-- 280 km SOM air launched stealth Cruise Missile
-- 800 km GEZGIN land and Naval based Cruise Missile
-- 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missile
-- 1.000 -2.500 km BORA Ballistic Missiles

-- KORKUT 35mm SPAAG
-- HISAR-O medium altitude Air Defense System
-- SIPER high altitude Air Defense System
-- S400 altitude Air Defense System
-- GUMS Anti Ballistic Missile Defense System
-- High energy LASER Weapons
-- Hypersonic Electromagnetic Rail Guns

-- BOZDOGAN WVR air to air Missile
-- GOKDOGAN BVR air to air Missile
-- AKDOGAN Ramjet powered long range air to air Missile

and Turkish UCAVs and F-16s will be armed with 110 km KUZGUN joint strike missile with IIR seeker and 120+ km MRASHM cruise missile with IIR seeker to hit even moving Warships

-- 1.500-2.000 km KARGI anti radiation Drone

and many more ...... Good luck to enemies ... they will need it

Turkey's foreign debt is $466 billion. Turkey's FOREX is around $114 billion
It is not hard to pound Turkey into economic submission

Even assuming your hearts are in the right place Turkey is fighting the wrong wars
 
Turkey's foreign debt is $466 billion. Turkey's FOREX is around $114 billion
It is not hard to pound Turkey into economic submission

Turkiye has the lowest external debt in Europe to compare with GDP ....

Greece : $476 billion .. 228% of GDP
The UK : $8,4 trillion... 313% of GDP
Netherlands :. $4,5 trillon .... 470% of GDP


TURKIYE's net foreign debt totaled $244.6 billion as of 2020 accounting for 32.5% of its GDP.
also long term debts of the private sector to European Banks $206 billion
Turkish private sector can pay long term debts to European Banks .... no any problem



Even assuming your hearts are in the right place Turkey is fighting the wrong wars

Turkiye just protect Turkish People , territorial integrity and its rights and MAVI VATAN ( Blue home land ) in the Eastern Mediterranean from bandit Countries and their terrorist organizations PKK/YPG , FETO and their puppet Arab Dictators
 
For Turkey and Pakistan, the problem remains the same, they can not trust others for their defense. America will not give it any capable weapon system that can be used against a Christian European country. Pakistan Turkey can help each other in defense.
Pakistan can give Turkey JF-17 block3 to get an edge over Rafale. Ra'ad and Babar MIssiles may boost Turkey's deep-strike capability to hit far deep while remaining away from the danger zone. maybe a few ballistic missiles like Abdali may also be sold to for covering the entire Greece area.
Pakistan can avail of Turkey EW and other weapon systems. When other countries are cooperating why not Turkey and Pakistan? Better they should sign a mutual defense agreement. so that they can send their defense forces to each other country in the time of need.and aslo join hand in defense production.
 

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