Abhijit Iyer Mitra Vs Ajai Shukla: Big Border Face-off Over Ladakh Standoff

[Joe Shearer]

Well, as long as the gays don't bother me directly, indirectly ( like promoting in society an androgynous physique model for women ) or commit rape, I am not offended by their presence in society.



Yes, there is the point that in India and Pakistan many of the conservatives have homosexual tendencies.



I too have seen that once. A famous shopping street. Couple of Black African young women. Two Indian boys calling them "kaali, kaali" in an insulting manner.



Good point.



Yes, that is one thing that a lot of the Left in India doesn't do compared to say the Left in some Muslim-majority societies does. Oppose the regressives among the Muslims in India.

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@Vasudhaika, welcome to PDF.

@jamahir
I knew that you would grasp these arguments instantly.

 

[Naofumi]

Yes, that is one thing that a lot of the Left in India doesn't do compared to say the Left in some Muslim-majority societies does. Oppose the regressives among the Muslims in India.

There's actually a term for this phenomenon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

But in India left do oppose Islamists though some may be hesitant about crossing the lines into Islamophobia, Vote bank politics is a different matter altogether.

 

[xeuss]

@jbgt90
@jamahir @xeuss @Naofumi @Shantanu_Left
@Syama Ayas @Chhatrapati @IMARV @MayaBazar

This is embarrassing, as I am opposed to homophobia, and I had hoped nobody would raise the subject of the man's orientation. What allows me the freedom to comment on your post is simply that you have put the matter in a context that is rational and is relevant to the question of the person's ideological orientation.

It is quite correct to say that the right wing conservatives are agnostic to sexual orientation, although that does not mean that they help to flatten the gross discrimination in India against diverse groups. But then, neither they nor the left wing have done anything to recognise and address Indian racism and racial bigotry. I have seen at close quarters how my African students were treated like inferior beings, ironically, in a milieu where I should have had the comfort that they would be completely protected by the racial openness of the minority religion that was a de facto majority there.

But to return to your argument, you are equally right in pointing to the automatic biases of the left, due, in part, to a feature that I would normally applaud; their secular outlook, but sadly, an outlook that finally results in over-compensation, to the extent .where the left feels it obligatory to do a Gandhi and pay obeisance to any regressive behaviour that the Muslim minority might adopt. The cases of Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen - the latter a terrible instance of distortion of constitutional safeguards and blatant violation of human rights - come to mind when you use that argument.

Granted that your premises are correct (devastatingly so), what are your conclusions? Are you saying that AIM is mainstream? When I referred to him as fringe, I was broadbrushing the Sangh Parivar as fringe. Otherwise, taken in the context of that Sangh Parivar, he is very mainstream, if that is what you are hinting at. At least the bloody man checks his facts carefully.

My question to you: where do we go from here? Do you agree with his conclusions? Do you disagree?



Welcome to PDF. Sadly, many promising new members have fallen by the wayside, and I wish you all the best. Be aware that you will be treated with circumspection at first, until your beliefs and values are clearer to all.

Being gay is unrelated to being a fascist. You can be a gay and you can be a fascist as well.

Abhijeet is clearly a fascist, that happens to also be gay.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There's actually a term for this phenomenon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

But in India left do oppose Islamists though some may be hesitant about crossing the lines into Islamophobia though vote bank politics is a different matter altogether.

Hang on.

Islamophobia is something else. Standing up to regressive Mullahs doesn't count for that, I feel, although after you and @xeuss keel-hauled me, I have been going around with a hang-dog look and steering very clear of demanding that Muslims should meet a stereotypical 'good Muslim' profile to get my/our support.

I said this with great trepidation.

Being gay is unrelated to being a fascist. You can be a gay and you can be a fascist as well.

Abhijeet is clearly a fascist, that happens to also be gay.

Ah, here you are.

Zigackly.

 

[Naofumi]

Islamophobia is something else. Standing up to regressive Mullahs doesn't count for that

I agree but there's no universally defined lines indicating which is which, Sanghis mix both and hence left become hesitant in the fear of being strawmanned by Islamists as Islamophobic.

Lines are embarrassingly blurry, because of both Sanghis and Islamists.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I agree but there's no universally defined lines indicating which is which, Sanghis mix both and hence left become hesitant in the fear of being strawmanned.

....and that's why the two of you scared the wits out of me.

 

[Naofumi]

I feel, although after you and @xeuss keel-hauled me

....and that's why the two of you scared the wits out of me.

It wasn't me Joe, maybe Afrazul.

 

[Cliftonite]

A lot of gay people steer to the Islamophobic right (it's debatable whether it is even Islamophobia or just self presevation) because of the rampant homophobia within Islamic societies, which thanks to migrants has spread to the West. Case in point: Douglas Murray and Anne Murray Waters. Both lean right....AMW far right.

A lot of Jews are also Islamophobic (again in my eyes self preservation and reactionary) because of the growing antisemitism in West due to migrants from Middle East.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It wasn't me Joe, maybe Afrazul.

Not @AfrazulMandal, who never criticises me; @xeuss, most certainly, and I cringed when I read his post. It was about the difference between the Israeli liberal support of Palestinians, and the way that some of us seem to have approached the support of Muslim Indians.

Good people, just a reminder: we need to get back on topic. More firmly on topic.

 

[Naofumi]

It was about the difference between the Israeli liberal support of Palestinians, and the way that some of us seem to have approached the support of Muslim Indians.

Liberal Israelis won't support Hamas (apart from being strawmanned).

 

[Joe Shearer]

Liberal Israelis won't support Hamas (apart from being strawmanned).

I don't think he meant Hamas, and I didn't interpret it that way. Hamas, being terrorist in nature and outlook, is not a body I can endorse, even as part of a collective endorsement.

 

[Vasudhaika]

But to return to your argument, you are equally right in pointing to the automatic biases of the left, due, in part, to a feature that I would normally applaud; their secular outlook, but sadly, an outlook that finally results in over-compensation, to the extent .where the left feels it obligatory to do a Gandhi and pay obeisance to any regressive behaviour that the Muslim minority might adopt.

Opposition's this particular way of thinking, I personally feel is huge factor in the ruling party's win and vote consolidation.

Granted that your premises are correct (devastatingly so), what are your conclusions? Are you saying that AIM is mainstream? When I referred to him as fringe, I was broadbrushing the Sangh Parivar as fringe. Otherwise, taken in the context of that Sangh Parivar, he is very mainstream, if that is what you are hinting at. At least the bloody man checks his facts carefully.

My question to you: where do we go from here? Do you agree with his conclusions? Do you disagree?

I'm no one wrt defence related things to ratify him or someone else, but sure his arguments are convincing. And yes, given his sanghi background, there's a reason to believe he is aiming for volume consumption. He is one of the voices, along with others who found some bandwidth in the spectrum, nothing more. And I'm in no rush to judge him, he is still young in my opinion. For me personally, spread of this damn disease right now is bigger cause of concern than the standoff.

Welcome to PDF. Sadly, many promising new members have fallen by the wayside, and I wish you all the best. Be aware that you will be treated with circumspection at first, until your beliefs and values are clearer to all.

Thank you. I'm aware of the 'special' observation for freshers in any new forum with adults, it makes sense too. Rest assured, I'm here for knowledge -ज्ञानान्वेशन. Not here to push any agenda. So, mostly will be in read mode.

@Vasudhaika, welcome to PDF.

Thanks brother.

Yes, there is the point that in India and Pakistan many of the conservatives have homosexual tendencies.

Lol, it also boils down to culture. In here, transgenders are part of popular culture. There are temples with transgender deities too.

His changing of the spelling was inspired by Gandhi that too much earlier from his marriage, thus I don't think it relates to him being 'adopted'.

Then why 'Ghandy' is used at all @Joe Shearer ?

PS : Abhijit is also a beef eater, thus easily a target of both your street Gow rakshaks and every sophisticated cow-lover Sanghi.

They are not 'my' street gow rakshaks nor 'my street' does have any. I don't care if he eats beef or a gay, as long as he's rational and constructive.

 

[Naofumi]

he's rational and constructive.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Abhijit sounds much more convincing in this interview.

At the end of the day the border is not demarcated and the perception of LAC is different for both sides. So both sides can claim intrusion at the same time while the other would say there is no intrusion. India's hasn't lost anything, just seems like the disputed area between the two sides is where the Chinese have sent large number of troops. That disputed area was never with India, it was disputed so there is no question of India losing anything. India will have them retreat if they haven't already. This is not the first time this is happening.

where is modi ? uski kyin bolti band ha . lol ye sab drama ker k kuch ni chup sakta miyaan .
.
.
modi ki khamoshi sabbb bol rahi ha .

 

[Vasudhaika]

View attachment 638108

I'd seen those terrible tweets. There seems to be some personal rivalry between this guy and the alt news guy. As I said, I'm in no rush to judge him or let his opinions influence me.