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A Theory On Partition

He did...it was a deadline. I don't think it precluded an earlier withdrawal. Will wait for Joe to wake up and fill us in with the gory details
No, it didn't. But something as complex as this - you would ideally be grateful for the extra time. There were lots of issues in Punjab and Bengal. Not just from religious perspective - but canals, water supplies, places of religious worship etc. Bengal was easier relatively because it had been partitioned once before in 1905 by Lord Curzon.
 
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I don't think the British cared much about the Indian Christian population. Remember Goa was annexed by India and the Western powers did not bother intervening. Right now I have no one else to blame but the Indian Muslims themselves. Why the hell did they not start regrouping themselves after Modi won in 2014? They are weak and servile. We shouldn't care about them, India has eyes on GB we should be focused on that.
Goa? Goa was a Portuguese colony. India negotiated in good faith for 14 years for its return. It then took less than 24 hours to liberate it.
 
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Yes. Doesn't take away from the fact that no ML league leader spent a night in British jail for "freedom" while everyone from Bhagat Singh to Bose to Nehru to Gandhi to Tilak were imprisoned by the Brits.

I have always wondered about this. Was it because the British viewed the Congress as the larger threat? Maybe secretly encouraged the Muslim League in their divide and rule policy?

Can some knowledgeable Pakistani poster elucidate more on this? @masterchief_mirza?
 
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I have always wondered about this. Was it because the British viewed the Congress as the larger threat? Maybe secretly encouraged the Muslim League in their divide and rule policy?

Can some knowledgeable Pakistani poster elucidate more on this? @masterchief_mirza?
Jinnah, who despite what Indian media paints was a decent guy and a fantastic lawyer. His opposition to British Rule was there but he sought to achieve it using Constitutional means. So he never went to jail. He was groomed by Gokhale and Tilak. But the rest of them were just wealthy landowners. There is no Nehru or Bose or Lala Lajpat Rai or Bhagat Singh. Although one can say that if Pakistanis want, they can claim both Bhagat Singh and Lala Lajpat Rai.
 
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Yes. Doesn't take away from the fact that no ML league leader spent a night in British jail for "freedom" while everyone from Bhagat Singh to Bose to Nehru to Gandhi to Tilak were imprisoned by the Brits.
the main reason was Jinah was not in limelight. He was a congress member till 1921 I guess. anyway ML didn't win seats till 1945 elections, so MLeague wasn't threat till WW2.
overall Quaid was a British qualified lawyer (barrister) who knew what to speak in British Raj. Unlike Gandhi and Nehru who were lawyers too from UK, but their statements put them in Jail. Quaid not only was willing to take case of Bhagat Singh but also Bal Gangadhar... despite this, he didn't land in jail. He was well articulated.
 
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It was historically known as such so used that term.

Well, yes. It has been historically & politically popular word, albeit historically & politically incorrect. Unfortunately, we are left with little to no options other than to use this word. Historical and political corrections would strike some nationalistic nerves on both sides (impact might vary though), even though such a correction would have no bearing on present territorial realities.
 
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I have always wondered about this. Was it because the British viewed the Congress as the larger threat? Maybe secretly encouraged the Muslim League in their divide and rule policy?

Can some knowledgeable Pakistani poster elucidate more on this? @masterchief_mirza?
Without any genuinely impartial accounts from the time in question, we would simply be speculating over motives. It could easily be argued that the British were intent on provoking both parties in the subcontinent. The British may have perceived both these scenarios as a threat: (1) a strong independent Muslim majority nation that had no territorial disputes with and was peacefully trading with the republic of India. This would permit this potentially very powerful Muslim majority nation to engage actively in the middle east and threaten British interests there. (2) a unified republic of India which also pursued interests independently and antagonistically towards Britain. Congress actually ideologically opposed certain other colonial projects and a unified Congress led republic of India may have been perceived as equally threatening to Britain - I'm only speculating on this one as the first one is obvious. This second scenario is stretching things but British interests at the time were different to what they are now, China wasn't an issue for starters.

So the favourable solution for Britain may well have been clandestine encouragement of a violent hindutva movement and prolonged provocation of border disputes between Pakistan and India. The encouragement of hindutva would keep the "secular republic" in a tinder box status, while the border issues with Pakistan would keep Pakistan in check.
 
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Yawn*

*The British actually left South Asia in less mess then they found it in. Never again would the high riders from Islamic highlands invade Ganges plains.

The industrial revolution(for which the british can be duly credited) and the end of the horse age ensured that.Once the horse is obsolete,central asia is finished.Russians conquered them easily,while in the heyday of the horse archer hordes turko-mongols ruled russia for over 200 years.The 3 core cultures that were the main fighting force of the islamic world - the arabs,the turks and the iranians were all horse cultures.Once the age of the horse ended they lost their central strength.Ottomans being closest to europe adapted to a degree,but never to an extent to challenge europe again.

What the british did in India was to create an army which for the first time incorporated in its ranks all the traditional military communities of the indian military labour market from north to south,east to west(from the rajputs, jats, pahadis, sikhs, purbiyas, gurkhas, ahoms,nagas,poligars,marathas) in a single force,and it worked due to the regimental system.And while this army exists no army in the islamic world can attack India head on.
The other creation of the british is the educated indian middle class which had not existed and is infact the main building block of the indian state.Its the middle class that ensures the ruling class can't act like dynasties of old on national security,and keeps regional seperatism at bay.Because the middle class has something very important ,pan-indian national consciousness.Many western analysts thought india would break up after 1947 in a few decades,that it didn't is down to the army,the bureaucracy and the middle class.(and the successful linguistic state reorganization project)
 
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We shouldn't care about them,
Quaid,s message to the Nation on 18th August, 1947
Those of our Muslim brethren who are minorities in Hindustan may rest assured that we shall never neglect or forget them. Our hearts go out to them, and we shall consider no effort too great to help them and secure their well-being for I recognize that it is the Muslim minority provinces in this sub-continent who were the pioneers and carried the banner aloft for the achievement of our cherished goal of Pakistan. I shall never forget their support, nor I hope the majority provinces in Pakistan will fail to appreciate that they were the pioneers in the vanguard of our historic and heroic struggle for the achievement of Pakistan, which today is an accomplished fact.
 
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Quaid,s message to the Nation on 18th August, 1947
Those of our Muslim brethren who are minorities in Hindustan may rest assured that we shall never neglect or forget them. Our hearts go out to them, and we shall consider no effort too great to help them and secure their well-being for I recognize that it is the Muslim minority provinces in this sub-continent who were the pioneers and carried the banner aloft for the achievement of our cherished goal of Pakistan. I shall never forget their support, nor I hope the majority provinces in Pakistan will fail to appreciate that they were the pioneers in the vanguard of our historic and heroic struggle for the achievement of Pakistan, which today is an accomplished fact.


If we help them overtly we are putting them at even more of a risk.
 
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I have always wondered about this. Was it because the British viewed the Congress as the larger threat? Maybe secretly encouraged the Muslim League in their divide and rule policy?

Can some knowledgeable Pakistani poster elucidate more on this? @masterchief_mirza?
Mr Jinnah always believed that the force of moral and ethical power would prevail over material and imperial strength. He confronted adversaries who vastly outnumbered his own supporters and resources with the pure, pristine power of concepts, facts, arguments, persuasive articulation and, most of all, sterling qualities of character and courage which did not need even an iota of physical force to press his case for Pakistan. So scrupulously did he believe in the sanctity of law, of the written texts that codify desirable and acceptable norms of behaviour that the colonial British Government simply could not find a legal basis to send him to jail!
The British were not the only ones who would have liked to see him fettered and restricted to prison. He had many ill-wishers in the Congress, the Hindu Mahasabha, RSS and elsewhere. Yet his unwavering reliance on the sublime strength of the mind alone, accompanied by his profound respect for the law prevented his incarceration. Without detracting from the sacrifices of personal freedom rendered by his opponents who were imprisoned by the British eg. Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru etc, the Quaid resisted the temptation to become a political martyr through temporary imprisonment because of his insightful observance of the law and his unwillingness to obtain an aura through an arrest.
 
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Neither they could anymore. Islamic invaders have to be content with owning Indus land and its people.

There is no such thing as Islamic invaders. They were invaders who happened to be Muslims. Their invasions were mainly motivated by political and material realities of their time. They had little to no motivation to spread Islam or slay infidels. Much as Alexander had no intention of spreading Hellenic religion in the lands he invaded. Though group identifications did factor in at times for them they mostly plundered and killed indiscriminately, and so did the other side. If I am not mistaken, it was perhaps Babur who instructed Humayun that if he wanted to rule India he must keep out of India's religious matters. Sooner both India and Pakistan realise and accept this fact the better it is, perhaps for the whole world.
 
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