A Take On Communal Violence In India

[Shantanu_Left]

@padamchen and others may well propagate the narrative that self-ghetto-isation is to blame. Indeed, we hear identical arguments in UK - that Pakistanis ghetto-ise themselves and don't wish to advance their communities but instead create states within states.

Will these Hindutva-supporting users be OK with Muslims slaughtering Qurbani animals right next door to them? Also, many are irritated by the Call to Azaan, and the sight of females wearing burqas. I don't think it's nice to interfere with another community's customs.

Clearly, a little bit of ghettoization works to everyone's benefit. What is not acceptable is denying someone a job or a business opportunity because they live in the ghetto. That is the common bridge we can have.

Not all Muslim women in India wear burqa in public, by the way. I need to correct that user. A lot of them who were raised in upper class, socially mobile surroundings, look indistinguishable from Hindu women. They wear Western clothes. Also, not all Indian Muslim men keep beards. They look indistinguishable from Hindus or anyone else.

Also, some Hindus and radical liberals like me prefer living in Muslim ghettos. For one, that's where we get access to high quality food in a vegetarian dominated India. Look at Delhi's Chandni Chowk or Mohammed Ali Road in Mumbai. That place has been named after the founder of Pakistan, oh the horrors!

 

[prashantazazel]

The root of the problem is the inherent backwardness of the two communities.
Conservative religious people tend to stick to their own tribe/group. This is true throughout the world.it is the liberals who go out and build bridges.
In India, actual liberals are very few. Most people follow their customs, even if outdated and useless.

Hindus who don't eat meat, generally have problems with meat eaters, including Muslims. Muslims, on the other hand have some other problems like group mentality, stricter adherence to religion.
Both communities have issues with inter faith dating/marriage. This is significant because without marriage between the communities, you will never have close relationships(one of the root causes of the caste divide.)


Solutions -
1. Time. The most powerful agent of change.
2. Prosperity-- now, rich old vegetarian type Hindus don't mingle with Muslims, but their children do.
3. Education- reduces radicalism en masse. (discounting the rare exceptions)
4. Diet- a mixed diet is gaining prominence. Particularly in the populous states of UP, Bihar. And the metros. Haryana, Rajasthan and Gujarat may not catch up, but they have lost populations. International cuisine is largely non veg, and it is growing by leaps and bounds.
5. Law- there needs to be a demand for secular laws. No one should be allowed to use religious criteria for renting houses. Similarly, no one should be slaughtering animals on their residential premises. Death penalty for all involved in honour killings,etc.

 

[jamahir]

When a Chinese seek help in Pakistan（social experiment）

Nice vid.

And woman at 3:25 mins... what a smile !

 

[padamchen]

Indian people seem to have reaffirmed their own stereotypes about Muslims and cemented them even more. Most Hindus we have here in Pakistan are very stereotypically Gujju and Brahmin (stingy, superstitious and all). But far from me to make a generalization about all Hindus. It would be nice if Indians would do the same for us. Especially the boomers who frequent this board.

Why are you so offended by Indians discussing Indian issues amongst themselves?

If what we are saying is wrong there are Indian Muslims living in India who will know and correct us.

Why lash out because what you read is not palatable to your Cliftonite snobbery?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

You are not hearing the Indians, Muslim and non Muslim, here.

Indian Muslims ARE advancing. Education is on the rise. Babies are down.

They get it.

But the ghettoisation, orthodox hyper-religosity and religious signaling is very much on the rise.

Why are we going to do propaganda on a Pakistani forum man? Its not like you are BBC here.

I am listening loud and clear. You criticised Muslim females for wearing burkhas and not "mingling" in malls, as if this is some main justification of your argument that Muslims are not integrating. Two points: (1) females can wear what they want and mingle as much or as little as they want - who actually cares and why does it indicate degree of integration with core democratic values in a supposedly democratic nation? (2) In India specifically, given its record on casual/severe violence or harassment against women in public places, if I was female, I too would wear a burkha just to avoid leering type attention in malls.

 

[padamchen]

Nice vid.

And woman at 3:25 mins... what a smile !

I am happy to note the taste remains strong.

 

[Cliftonite]

Will these Hindutva-supporting users be OK with Muslims slaughtering Qurbani animals right next door to them? Also, many are irritated by the Call to Azaan, and the sight of females wearing burqas. I don't think it's nice to interfere with another community's customs.

Clearly, a little bit of ghettoization works to everyone's benefit. What is not acceptable is denying someone a job or a business opportunity because they live in the ghetto. That is the common bridge we can have.

Not all Muslim women in India wear burqa in public, by the way. I need to correct that user. A lot of them who were raised in upper class, socially mobile surroundings, look indistinguishable from Hindu women. They wear Western clothes. Also, not all Indian Muslim men keep beards. They look indistinguishable from Hindus or anyone else.

Also, some Hindus and radical liberals like me prefer living in Muslim ghettos. For one, that's where we get access to high quality food in a vegetarian dominated India. Look at Delhi's Chandni Chowk or Mohammed Ali Road in Mumbai. That place has been named after the founder of Pakistan, oh the horrors!

All this rambling by most Indians regarding Muslims on this board seems so Marie Antoinette to me. 'If they can't have bread, let them eat cake.' You don't understand their struggle, never bother engaging with them yet make such gross generalizations.

 

[prashantazazel]

Rest of the areas don't have muslim majority that is why percentage of muslims in delhi is 12.86 percent and concentrated mainly in central and north east delhi.

But have large numbers of Muslims nevertheless. I live in South Delhi, and all communities get along quite well here.
Most areas with problems are actually poor areas. Poor people get stereotyped easily.

 

[padamchen]

I am listening loud and clear. You criticised Muslim females for wearing burkhas and not "mingling" in malls, as if this is some main justification of your argument that Muslims are not integrating. Two points: (1) females can wear what they want and mingle as much or as little as they want - who actually cares and why does it indicate degree of integration with core democratic values in a supposedly democratic nation? (2) In India specifically, given its record on casual/severe violence or harassment against women in public places, if I was female, I too would wear a burkha just to avoid leering type attention in malls.

Yup. Most Indian Muslim males too think like you.

You are after all the same people.

And we are aware that Muslims in the UK are a lot more orthodox and into similar hyper-religious signaling in a non Muslim predominant society, like Indian Muslims.

@Naofumi

 

[Shantanu_Left]

(1) females can wear what they want and mingle as much or as little as they want - who actually ...

You clearly are ignoring the perspective of the average Indian man- women in India are supposed to conform to certain standards and expectations of men. In any unpleasant situation, it's always the woman's fault. They are supposed to stay in low limelight, and not hurt male ego. Or else, all hell breaks loose. That is why first time Indian male visitors to Western countries have such a hard time working around women's natural freedoms.

May that lack of knowledge continue. Because you're this close to touching the dark underbelly of a misogynistic India.

You know really too much.

 

[Cliftonite]

Why are you so offended by Indians discussing Indian issues amongst themselves?

If what we are saying is wrong there are Indian Muslims living in India who will know and correct us.

Why lash out because what you read is not palatable to your Cliftonite snobbery?

Why did women get offended when Donald Trump was talking about grabbing pussies? He was just discussing it among boys. Why do black people get so offended when KKK discuss slavery amongst themselves? Are you even listening to yourself? You're making gross generalizations about us and we shouldn't be offended. Okay boomer.

 

[Mad Scientist 2.0]

But have large numbers of Muslims nevertheless. I live in South Delhi, and all communities get along quite well here.
Most areas with problems are actually poor areas. Poor people get stereotyped easily.

oNLY IN Chandan Hola and Jaitpur where muslims have a bit presence and in Chandan Hola it is 66 percent. Rest are too insignificant to mention. As per my comment there it is pretty common and recent violences are making most muslims to go for muslim majority area . Mostly poors and middle classes uses segregated area fro their won safety now riches are joining the bandwagon too.

 

[prashantazazel]

Has this been always or only in the last 15 years or so ?

Burqas are on a decline in Delhi, even in the old city areas. Though they are very common in poor families, especially migrants from UP and Bihar.
(not surprisingly, I have met a lot of poor Hindus from these areas, and they are extremely backward too. But they tend to get a pass, because they don't look different)
I missed this point, but most ghettos are full of the poor folks from UP and Bihar, and many are recent migrants. So those backward cultural attributes get imported into the city, and can persist for a while in these areas.

oNLY IN Chandan Hola and Jaitpur where muslims have a bit presence and in Chandan Hola it is 66 percent. Rest are too insignificant to mention. As per my comment there it is pretty common and recent violences are making most muslims to go for muslim majority area . Mostly poors and middle classes uses segregated area fro their won safety now riches are joining the bandwagon too.

I don't hear of any such migration. Most people I know want to migrate out of the ghettos.

 

[jamahir]

or Mohammed Ali Road in Mumbai. That place has been named after the founder of Pakistan, oh the horrors!

I didn't know that.

Once in an interview of the music composer brothers Salim and Sulaiman, they mentioned that they were raised in Mohammed Ali road area but the atmosphere there was stifling their artistic interest so they moved out when they were able to.

 

[padamchen]

Why did women get offended when Donald Trump was talking about grabbing pussies? He was just discussing it among boys. Why do black people get so offended when KKK discuss slavery amongst themselves? Are you even listening to yourself? You're making gross generalizations about us and we shouldn't be offended. Okay boomer.

Stupid post. False equivocation.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I didn't know that.

Once in some interview of the music composer brothers Salim and Sulaiman, they mentioned that they were raised in Mohammed Ali road area but the atmosphere there was stifling their artistic interest so they moved out when they were able to.

OK, in all fairness, I'm not 100% sure, and I have not bothered to check on Wikipedia or wherever. I can only vouch for the Nihari-Paye, Sheekh Kabab, and Beef Samosas of some of my favorite outlets there.

I think that road was named after Jinnah because he was associated with Mumbai for many years. He even had a famous bungalow in Malabar Hill which is now a heritage site.