A Super Power without Allies ?

[vostok]

And by the way, USSR have had a real ally, mighty and powerfull communist China. One ally, that costs all former Western empires and Japan, which became US vassals. But Kruschev, miserable full, managed to quarrel with China.
Molotov once said in 1951, that victory of communist party in China is more important for USSR than victory over Nazism.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Of course, you can find millions of reasons in the Internet, it's not difficult.
I like the explanation of Anatoly Wasserman - the great Jewish wiseman from Odessa. Among other things, he is engaged in mathematics, cybernetics and economics. He said that by the 1960s the number of units of manufactured goods had grown by several dozens times in comparison with the 1930s. In the 1930s, the planned socialist economy was more effective than the capitalist one. However, by the 1960s, state planning had become inefficient, since the state ministries simply did not have time to change plans because of accelerated progress. The USSR lost its leadership in economic development (in 30's it grew up to 30% per year and became second world economy in pre-WW2 years), and then in science and technology.
However, thanks to the development of information technology, by about 2025, it will be possible to return to state planning, since it will be possible to update the state plan approximately once a day. This will make the planned economy by different estimates 3-10 times more efficient than the capitalist economy. The country that will first create a comprehensive state economic plan with the use of new information technologies will become the leader of the 21st century.

I read somewhere that long before the age of the internet there was a proposal in the ex-USSR to connect the whole country with an intranet but somehow it never got the budget to do so. I must have been the biggest blunder the ex-USSR ever made. Just imagine what if ...

 

[Beast]

dude seriously

there is a huge different between...

PLAN and REAL

and no without 65 oversea bases their 10 carrier groups could not go were they want to go like today... they need supply... they need fuel ...they need repair... etc...

you realy have no clue what military superpower means...

Russia PLANED to buy 2300 T-14.... at the end they have ordered 100....

LOL.. The delusion is you... There is a reason why USA replenishment ship is huge, same as the one build by PLAN.

They are cross ocean, fast moving and carry lot of fuel, food ,ammo. Only USN and PLAN currently has such asset.

https://www.popsci.com/giant-new-supply-ship-extends-chinas-reach-at-sea

These huge monster allow longer and further power projection. Lack of bases can be compensate by size and number of ships.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

And by the way, USSR have had a real ally, mighty and powerfull communist China. One ally, that costs all former Western empires and Japan, which became US vassals. But Kruschev, miserable full, managed to quarrel with China.
Molotov once said in 1951, that victory of communist party in China is more important for USSR than victory over Nazism.

Kruschev was an bloody Ukraine. His negative legacy is felt till today (e.g. Crimea).

 

[Georg]

LOL.. The delusion is you... There is a reason why USA replenishment ship is huge, same as the one build by PLAN.

They are cross ocean, fast moving and carry lot of fuel, food ,ammo. Only USN and PLAN currently has such asset.

https://www.popsci.com/giant-new-supply-ship-extends-chinas-reach-at-sea

These huge monster allow longer and further power projection. Lack of bases can be compensate by size and number of ships.

I see no huge monster I only see a small supply ship....

 

[vostok]

Kruschev was an bloody Ukraine. His negative legacy is felt till today (e.g. Crimea).

His nationality does not matter, what matters - he made a real foolish steps in internal and external policy.

 

[Beast]

I see no huge monster I only see a small supply ship....

LOL.. go ahead with your delusion. It will not stop rising China.

 

[UserUnknown2025]

LOL.. go ahead with your delusion. It will not stop rising China.

煞笔多是好事呀

 

[DejanSRB]

It is disgrace for USSR to be compared to China.

First was world superpower, second is cheap workshop.

USSR on its peak was 60 % of USA GDP. Modern China is about 62-63%, so dont lie Beast,

USSR was highly industrialized country while 10 millions Chinese died annually from famines.

USSR military power is something that Chinese will never achieved. All they can do is copying

USSR was ideological superpower and base of world communism, no one cared except Albanians, what Mao says, it is all about Moscow in world of communism.

USSR was cultural superpower as a successesor of Tsarist cultural influence. Literature, classical music, ballet, architecture of past empire, millions of communists and Slavs that will took weapons if Russia get under attack, like my grandpa after 22 june 1941.

USSR was famous for first animal, man and women in space, China for Tiananman massacre.

Even most influential Chinese of all times, Mao, was a fanboy of Stalin. Western historian even made a theory he was secretly gay becouse of Stalin.

China was an easy pray for Tsarist empire, it lose 2.000.000 km2 to Romanov Empire.

China was a junior partner of USSR.

Russia will choose Europe over China, when the time comes. Russia belong to Europe. It is important part of European civilization and without Europe, Russia is another pariah state, and Europe without Russia is uncomplete.


It is even a question will China became superpower ever. USSR was. End of disscusion.

And btw. China is probably the only country among great powers that dont have allies, except maybe Pakistan.
Truth to be told, 90% of Serbs would take weapons to join our brothers in Russia, for China no one would give a damn. What to expect from country which embassy get bombed in NATO aggression at Serbia in 1999, and kills many Chinese citizens, and China dont do nothing.

We Serbs are witness that China was helpless against US army back in 1999. Nothing changed, nothing will change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade

 

[Beast]

It is disgrace for USSR to be compared to China.

First was world superpower, second is cheap workshop.

USSR on its peak was 60 % of USA GDP. Modern China is about 62-63%, so dont lie Beast,

USSR was highly industrialized country while 10 millions Chinese died annually from famines.

USSR military power is something that Chinese will never achieved. All they can do is copying

USSR was ideological superpower and base of world communism, no one cared except Albanians, what Mao says, it is all about Moscow in world of communism.

USSR was cultural superpower as a successesor of Tsarist cultural influence. Literature, classical music, ballet, architecture of past empire, millions of communists and Slavs that will took weapons if Russia get under attack, like my grandpa after 22 june 1941.

Even most influential Chinese of all times, Mao, was a fanboy of Stalin. Western historian even make a theory he was secretly gay becouse of Stalin.

China was an easy pray for Tsarist empire, it lose 2.000.000 km2 to Romanov Empire.

China was a junior partner of USSR.

Russia will choose Europe over China, when the time comes. Russia belong to Europe. It is important part of European civilization and without Europe, Russia is another pariah state, and Europe without Russia is uncomplete.


It is even a question will China became superpower ever. USSR was. End of disscusion.

And btw. China is probably the only country among great powers that dont have allies, except maybe Pakistan.
Truth to be told, 90% of Serbs would take weapons to join our brothers in Russia, for China no one would give a damn. What to expect from country which embassy get bombed in NATO aggression at Serbia in 1999, and kills many Chinese citizens, and China dont do nothing.

We Serbs are witness that China was helpless against US army back in 1999. Nothing changed, nothing will change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade

LOL.. 1999? We are now in 2018. Welcome to the real world. We do not live in history. Soviet Union economy in the 70s is not even 30% of current China economy.

Maybe HSR is cheap workshop.

Not even German and Japan can build the level of stability that China HSR has. Not to mention this beast is going at average of 300km/h. I don't know where Chinese copy from? Maybe from aliens? This is just tip of the iceberg.

They are just too many other things to talk about which I afraid will flood this thread.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The idea that the weight of the war in afghanistan ended the soviet union is fantasy.To put things in perspective out of the 3.3 million strong red army no more than a single army of 50-60,000 was ever deployed in afghanistan along with spetsnaz and airborne elements.The best russian armour like t-72 and t-64s were never deployed there.The cost of afghanistan was merely a contributory factor in the process.

USSR main problem was the distorted economic structure.Certain sectors like space tech,military and heavy industry were first rate,while agriculture and consumer goods were in very poor shape.Due to ideology, state run enterprises running at a loss were still supported by subsidies.GDP growth stagnated to zero from late 1970s and onto negative growth in late 1980s.Moreover there was not much scope for ambitious personal advancement or profit in the closed state controlled economy.(which while despised by many as the root cause of inequality is still the main motive/driver of growth).Agriculture sector was so inefficient that 5% of privatized land produced same amount as 40-50% of collective farm output.USSR had to buy grain from USA.
The major export item and hard currency item was oil and gas,but when value of this plunged in 1980s this was a critical blow.The soviet empire in eastern europe had also become a liability,the soviet industrial sector was not able to supply these captive markets with proper consumer goods and instead these governments took up subsidies to keep them running.It was mainly for these reasons that the USSR let them go in 1990.Perestroika tried to reform the economy but was too hasty,too little and too disorganized and also met with internal resistance from soviet bureaucracy.On top of this was enormous (avg 15-20% GDP) military spending and arms race which ate into funds.

Finally soviet leadership lost faith in communism.Remember the soviet leadership of 1980s were the first post ww2 generation in power and grew up in the post stalin era and thus had less entrenched ideas,they also had far more extensive contacts with the west.None of the original revolutionary zealots of the revolution era were still at the helm.The last such generation(brezhnev era who fought inww2) tried to hold on during the 70s.The Soviet leadership were allured by economic benefits of opening up.This was complicated by return of russian nationalists like yeltsin,who believed in russian nationalism rather than communist internationalism.Gorbachev it must be remembered didn't want and end to the USSR,he only wanted to end the cold war and reform the ussr into a socialist democracy.But with the military coup attempt and yeltsin power grab things went out of hand.

Except the baltic states none of the soviet republics actually voted to leave the ussr.The common people wanted the ussr to stay.So uniquely the fall of the ussr was not a revolution from below but a revolution from above.

 

[DejanSRB]

@Beast

Paul Kennedy " The Rise and fall of great powers", pg.141-142.

USSR economy at its peak - 60 % of US. year. 1974.

China economy at its peak - 64 % of US. year 2018.

Crazy man, you cant compare USSR economy at 1989 and Chinese at 2018, due to inflation, different value of dollar, and many other things...

So by you stupid logic, China economy is TEN TIMES bigger then US economy in 1918.

 

[Offshore]

It is disgrace for USSR to be compared to China.

First was world superpower, second is cheap workshop.

USSR on its peak was 60 % of USA GDP. Modern China is about 62-63%, so dont lie Beast,

USSR was highly industrialized country while 10 millions Chinese died annually from famines.

USSR military power is something that Chinese will never achieved. All they can do is copying

USSR was ideological superpower and base of world communism, no one cared except Albanians, what Mao says, it is all about Moscow in world of communism.

USSR was cultural superpower as a successesor of Tsarist cultural influence. Literature, classical music, ballet, architecture of past empire, millions of communists and Slavs that will took weapons if Russia get under attack, like my grandpa after 22 june 1941.

USSR was famous for first animal, man and women in space, China for Tiananman massacre.

Even most influential Chinese of all times, Mao, was a fanboy of Stalin. Western historian even made a theory he was secretly gay becouse of Stalin.

China was an easy pray for Tsarist empire, it lose 2.000.000 km2 to Romanov Empire.

China was a junior partner of USSR.

Russia will choose Europe over China, when the time comes. Russia belong to Europe. It is important part of European civilization and without Europe, Russia is another pariah state, and Europe without Russia is uncomplete.


It is even a question will China became superpower ever. USSR was. End of disscusion.

And btw. China is probably the only country among great powers that dont have allies, except maybe Pakistan.
Truth to be told, 90% of Serbs would take weapons to join our brothers in Russia, for China no one would give a damn. What to expect from country which embassy get bombed in NATO aggression at Serbia in 1999, and kills many Chinese citizens, and China dont do nothing.

We Serbs are witness that China was helpless against US army back in 1999. Nothing changed, nothing will change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade

wow, seems you stuck in 1999.
good for you boys, serbia just another GAS STATION for CHINA

 

[DejanSRB]

@Offshore Serbia will never become another gas station for China.

We fight against Byzantines, Ottomans, Nazis, Stalinists, NATO for centuries. If we dont surrender to advanced nations of Euroasia, why we would surrender to poverty stricken east asian country.

 

[Beast]

@Beast

Paul Kennedy " The Rise and fall of great powers", pg.141-142.

USSR economy at its peak - 60 % of US. year. 1974.

China economy at its peak - 64 % of US. year 2018.

Crazy man, you cant compare USSR economy at 1989 and Chinese at 2018, due to inflation, different value of dollar, and many other things...

So by you stupid logic, China economy is TEN TIMES bigger then US economy in 1918.

LOL... Soviet Union economy is so mighty then may I know why Soviet Union collapse? Maybe somebody told you its becos US invaded Soviet and beat them outright in an invasion? Your mighty Russia after collapse of Soviet Union finally commissioned a modern major frigate of 5000tons in 2018? You must be very happy?

Your mighty Serbia now even need Chinese money. I suggest you shut up and don't angry the hands that feed you.
https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/...-to-Serbia-infrastructure-and-politics-185401

Your mighty Russia can't even feed themselves in 2018. Not to even mention helping Serbia.