A Straight Talk with Israel

[Clutch]

Pakistan having no influence over Israel is good for India - Israel relations.

That's why I say pakistan should have diplomatic ties with Israel... if pakistan can have diplomatic ties with India.. A nation bent on destroying pakistan... why not Israel which hasn't really done anything against pakistan ??

 

[ito]

That's why I say pakistan should have diplomatic ties with Israel... if pakistan can have diplomatic ties with India.. A nation bent on destroying pakistan... why not Israel which hasn't really done anything against pakistan ??

That is true...not having diplomatic relation with Israel means Israel can disregard Pakistan's security interest totally and provide whatever defense technology India wants. And you have no way of conveying your reservations to Israel.

 

[veg]

The core ideal of Zionism isn't religion; it is nationalism, the idea that the Jewish people - like the French, Italians, Turks, etc. - are a nation and as such entitled to self-determination.

"The Jews are a people and Judaism is their religion" is the correct formulation.

You can see right away that Israel thus avoided, to a great degree, the problems afflicting Pakistan: the question of who is or isn't a Jew is settled by blood or adoption, not religious observance. (Very close to the German formulation, really, where Germans - even if their forebears had lived in Russia for hundreds of years - are still welcomed back to Germany and entitled to automatic citizenship.)

So having been founded upon a flawed premise, the reasoning that follows it in the essay is flawed as well, and therefore its conclusions are logically invalid.

Zionism and the Greater Israel

I am an Atheist.

I discussed dozens of times with different Israelies and asked them the question, why their ancestors rejected the offer of land in Uganda for their state, and why they took the land of Palestine, even if they had to fight and kick out the native inhabitants of Palestine in millions?

In all these dozens of discussions, not a single reason was given for rejection of Uganda offer, but all Israelies said that God has given them the Birth Right to take this land of Israel.

I personally have enough of this Religious Bullshit, either it is from Muslim who believe that their their religion will triumph and they will rule the whole world and impose Sharia, or it is Jewish mentality that any so called God has give them the Birth Right for this land, so they are allowed to kick out the local population and establish their state.

This jewish/zionist mentality does not stop at the present borders of Israel. But this mentality demands that God promised them the whole "Greater Israel" and whole Greater Israel belonged to their ancestors.


If the Jews/Zionists say they will not wage a war for Greater Israel, then I very much doubt their intentions, while the mentality due to which present Israel is created, according to this mentality, they have the birth right to wage war upon Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and take the God Promised land for themselves.

So, I am not very hopeful for peace in the region.

I also asked these Israelies if they are OK when native Red Indians kick out the While Americans by claiming this land belonged to their ancestors?

To my surprise, these Israelies went so far in saying that yes Red Indians too should kick out all the White as well as Black Americans from the sacred lands of their ancestors.


Therefore, I have nose full of this religious mindset. I want that people of different races and origins live with peace with each other and accept each other as human beings only. This thing becomes easy if people believe in humanity instead of believing in religion and race.

 

[Ilay]

Zionism and the Greater Israel

I am an Atheist.

I discussed dozens of times with different Israelies and asked them the question, why their ancestors rejected the offer of land in Uganda for their state, and why they took the land of Palestine, even if they had to fight and kick out the native inhabitants of Palestine in millions?

In all these dozens of discussions, not a single reason was given for rejection of Uganda offer, but all Israelies said that God has given them the Birth Right to take this land of Israel.

I personally have enough of this Religious Bullshit, either it is from Muslim who believe that their their religion will triumph and they will rule the whole world and impose Sharia, or it is Jewish mentality that any so called God has give them the Birth Right for this land, so they are allowed to kick out the local population and establish their state.

This jewish/zionist mentality does not stop at the present borders of Israel. But this mentality demands that God promised them the whole "Greater Israel" and whole Greater Israel belonged to their ancestors.


If the Jews/Zionists say they will not wage a war for Greater Israel, then I very much doubt their intentions, while the mentality due to which present Israel is created, according to this mentality, they have the birth right to wage war upon Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and take the God Promised land for themselves.

So, I am not very hopeful for peace in the region.

I also asked these Israelies if they are OK when native Red Indians kick out the While Americans by claiming this land belonged to their ancestors?

To my surprise, these Israelies went so far in saying that yes Red Indians too should kick out all the White as well as Black Americans from the sacred lands of their ancestors.


Therefore, I have nose full of this religious mindset. I want that people of different races and origins live with peace with each other and accept each other as human beings only. This thing becomes easy if people believe in humanity instead of believing in religion and race.

"Israelis told me this, Israelis told me that, Israelis think so and so..." have you spoken with any "Israeli" that you come back with those so called "proves"?

 

[Sipahi]

"The Jews are a people and Judaism is their religion" is the correct formulation.

Like Muslim are people and Islam is their religion ??

most absurd comment I read on pdf till date.

 

[El Sidd]

Like Muslim are people and Islam is their religion ??

most absurd comment I read on pdf till date.

Actually he is correct.

 

[veg]

"Israelis told me this, Israelis told me that, Israelis think so and so..." have you spoken with any "Israeli" that you come back with those so called "proves"?

Yes, proves are there. Even at this forum too I debated with an Isreali who claimed that Jews were right to deny the Uganda Offer and to conquer the Palestinian Land and to kick them out, while GOD promised the Jews this sacred land and it is their Birth Right to have control upon this land.

And then I asked him if the Native Indians also have the right to kick all the White and Black Americans out of the land of their ancestors, then he said OK.

Here is the LINK

There are thousands of videos where Jews are telling they have the right to this land while some god promised it to them and thus they are right to kick out the native population. And they will keep on kicking them out while their presence is a risk to Israel. And Israel will also not let the Palestinians emigrate back to Israel while once again this land belongs to them and their return will risk security to Israel.

You see, you were unable to answer a single question from my Post where I wrote this Religious Madness of Jews that Jews own this land by Birth while any so called god promised them so.

 

[Ilay]

Yes, proves are there. Even at this forum too I debated with an Isreali who claimed that Jews were right to deny the Uganda Offer and to conquer the Palestinian Land and to kick them out, while GOD promised the Jews this sacred land and it is their Birth Right to have control upon this land.

And then I asked him if the Native Indians also have the right to kick all the White and Black Americans out of the land of their ancestors, then he said OK.

Here is the LINK

There are thousands of videos where Jews are telling they have the right to this land while some god promised it to them and thus they are right to kick out the native population. And they will keep on kicking them out while their presence is a risk to Israel. And Israel will also not let the Palestinians emigrate back to Israel while once again this land belongs to them and their return will risk security to Israel.

You see, you were unable to answer a single question from my Post where I wrote this Religious Madness of Jews that Jews own this land by Birth while any so called god promised them so.

It is stupid to claim that this land belongs to us by god, this land is where Jews originated from - Jeuda. Yes Arabs have been living here thought the overwhelming majority came to the land as buisness oportunity when the Jews developed it but we did not under any circumstance evicted those who have living here in peace - most of those "refugees" left on their on accord thinking they would return to reconquerd Arab land. Those who where evicted where the ones waging war against us. The only natural justification to hold land is the ability to hold it - and guess what Arabs have lost all that they could have had they let us live in quiet in our legally bought lands but no, they could not accept a diffrent culture from their own in the Middle East.

 

[ISI-1]

He talk a lot of reasons for Pakistan to establish relationships with the state of Israel alright yet I fail to see a particularly good reason for Israel to do the same, what do we have to gain from Pakistan that I can't see?

We are here to annihilate the illigitimate zionist state, it will happen, inshaALLAH. Forget all else.

 

[veg]

It is stupid to claim that this land belongs to us by god,

Then you have to FIRST accept that creation of Israel was a mistake, it was based on this madness of "God gifted us this Land", and denying Uganda Offer and announcing the creation of Israel against the will of Native population were crimes.

You have not answered this basic question.

And those Israelies who answer this question, their only claim up till now is this that rejecting Uganda Offer and announcing Creation of Israel was correct while some god has promised Jews this land.

this land is where Jews originated from - Jeuda.

Makes no difference. After centuries and creation of UNO, there was absolutely no excuse of creation of Israel on the Palestinian land.

Not only the Muslim religion is a problem for humanity, but also the Jewish religion too is a problem for humanity and crimes are committed for the sake of religion.

Yes Arabs have been living here thought the overwhelming majority came to the land as buisness oportunity when the Jews developed it but we did not under any circumstance evicted those who have living here in peace

You see all these are the LAME excuses for making illegal religious based creation of Israel. You may have come as businessmen, but you were not allowed to declare the creation of Jewish State.

- most of those "refugees" left on their on accord thinking they would return to reconquerd Arab land. Those who where evicted where the ones waging war against us.

Problem is who "STARTED" the conflict?

You are mentioning ONLY what happened LATER etc., but you ignored the basic thing that things should be basically judged on a criteria that who "STARTED" the conflict.

Therefore, who ever started it, that party is the basic culprit and guilty.

One may hate Islam, one may hate Muslims, but the Word of Justice is that basic guilt goes to the Jews who created the state of Israel.

The only natural justification to hold land is the ability to hold it

Here you ow want to play "Might is Right".
It is unfortunate.
"Might is right" is a wrong formula today, as it was wrong in the past when other mightier forces prosecuted and killed the Jews for centuries.

- and guess what Arabs have lost all that they could have had they let us live in quiet in our legally bought lands but no, they could not accept a diffrent culture from their own in the Middle East.

Once again, there were almost negligible problems when earlier jews were living there. The real problems only began after the Jews announced the creation of state of Israel.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

Can't speak for anyone else here, but I am paid in gift cards to Walmart and Star Trek merchandise.

A very small price, in deed. Ask for something big.

 

[One-Above-All]

Then you have to FIRST accept that creation of Israel was a mistake, it was based on this madness of "God gifted us this Land", and denying Uganda Offer and announcing the creation of Israel against the will of Native population were crimes.

You have not answered this basic question.

And those Israelies who answer this question, their only claim up till now is this that rejecting Uganda Offer and announcing Creation of Israel was correct while some god has promised Jews this land.



Makes no difference. After centuries and creation of UNO, there was absolutely no excuse of creation of Israel on the Palestinian land.

Not only the Muslim religion is a problem for humanity, but also the Jewish religion too is a problem for humanity and crimes are committed for the sake of religion.




You see all these are the LAME excuses for making illegal religious based creation of Israel. You may have come as businessmen, but you were not allowed to declare the creation of Jewish State.



Problem is who "STARTED" the conflict?

You are mentioning ONLY what happened LATER etc., but you ignored the basic thing that things should be basically judged on a criteria that who "STARTED" the conflict.

Therefore, who ever started it, that party is the basic culprit and guilty.

One may hate Islam, one may hate Muslims, but the Word of Justice is that basic guilt goes to the Jews who created the state of Israel.




Here you ow want to play "Might is Right".
It is unfortunate.
"Might is right" is a wrong formula today, as it was wrong in the past when other mightier forces prosecuted and killed the Jews for centuries.



Once again, there were almost negligible problems when earlier jews were living there. The real problems only began after the Jews announced the creation of state of Israel.

It's really strange that these arguments are coming from a Pakistani person, Since your own country was created because of Islam, What you said here also applies to illegal religious based creation of Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

...I discussed dozens of times with different Israelies and asked them the question, why their ancestors rejected the offer of land in Uganda for their state, and why they took the land of Palestine, even if they had to fight and kick out the native inhabitants of Palestine in millions?

​

...who ever started it, that party is the basic culprit and guilty. One may hate Islam, one may hate Muslims, but the Word of Justice is that basic guilt goes to the Jews who created the state of Israel.

Creation by Jews = "basic guilt" for the conflict? If I create a dumpling, are you then entitled to kill me and my descendants because you ate it and it helped make you fat? Only if I'm a Jew, you say?

I want that people of different races and origins live with peace with each other and accept each other as human beings only. This thing becomes easy if people believe in humanity instead of believing in religion and race.

Then you have to support the Zionists 100% over their enemies who, after all, advocate robbery and extermination, while pretending these very goals are instead those of the Jews, rather than themselves.

History shows that the Zionists are right; how the Palestinian Arabs inculcate their kids in hatred vs. how the Jews concentrate on love shows the Zionists are right; how Pakistan and the Arabs surrounding Israel don't tolerate Jews shows that Israel, not yourselves, provides the superior example. Stop supporting a system that rewards Arabs for stabbing Jews in their beds and it will be even better - or is that what you fear?
​

 

[Solomon2]

Why do Pakistanis even bother with this subject?
They despise our existence, no point of even mentioning this country. To hell with the promised land. Close chapter

I doubt Israelis "despise" Pakistan at all; it's even more likely Pakistan doesn't often register in most Israelis minds. Thing is, not only have Pakistani students been forbidden to portray Israel in a positive light, the instructions to Pakistani educators are to "forestall" the possibility, so lies to slander Zionists are permitted.

So whatever negative thing you've learned about Israel from a Pakistani, in a Pakistani school, or in a Pakistani mosque, you can have absolutely no confidence in. Therefore if you repeat such negative stuff then you're agreeing to act as a tool of someone else's judgment: you are not speaking with a moral voice of your own, so it has little value compared to the voice of someone who has arrived at judgment freely. If you want to change that you have to fight for greater freedom of speech and dissent in Pakistan.

We are here to annihilate the illigitimate zionist state, it will happen, inshaALLAH. Forget all else.

Who is "we"? Not I, certainly. Did someone choose you to speak for all on PDF? Or for all Pakistan?

 

[Anish1]

The F-35 can fly undetected over Pakistan and terminate the radioactive targets