A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[JohnWick]

Mere BayI,YOU ARE VERY INONCENT FARE & HONEST,YOU REMIND ME OF MYSELF ONCE I USE TOBE...
KASHMIR HAS BEEN POLITICAL LABORATORY OF INDIAN RAW,PMO,PAKISTAN ISI PAK ARMY EVEN THERE ARE SOME WESTERN POWERS ALSO WHO EXPERIMENTED THEIR POLITICAL IDEAS POLICIES ON KASHMIR
PLZ DONT BE PART OF IT,DONT EVEN SUPPRT IT ,,,IT IS NOT WORTH IT,,,HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT....

I think you r a raw agent @Imran Khan check out this new guy.

 

[Saahir Malik]

I think you r a raw agent @Imran Khan check out this new guy.

Why not an ISI agent,when one is going to kill you,what difference it makes whether you been killed by RAW or ISI,You should not comment on things which is above level,cool down don't put any labels on anyone,,

 

[Clutch]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

So basically the summary is:

1. Status Quo for the Indian stance.
2. Pakistan recede any of its stance on Kashmir
3. No real independent for the native Kashmiris
4. Imposition of "progressive" political Pakistan... While India remains a pseudo-secular and actual Hindutva.


This proposition is.. Heads India wins, Tails Pakistan loses.

 

[JohnWick]

Why not an ISI agent,when one is going to kill you,what difference it makes whether you been killed by RAW or ISI,You should not comment on things which is above level,cool down don't put any labels on anyone,,

Actually I was saying on your Above level cz not to make you understand sth ....anyway what makes you to come here?
Seek of freedom? or to do catharsis? or to say that you are happy? And just for only trolling?

 

[letsrock]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

Horrible solution. what truth and reconciliation with pandits ? do you even know pandits were landlords and elite oppressors in the valley? if they vacate the valley because they are not comfortable with majority of what their people want - should the opressed welcome them by washing their feet like in mandela truth and reconciliation ? have you gone mad ?

 

[Saahir Malik]

Actually I was saying on your Above level cz not to make you understand sth ....anyway what makes you to come here?
Seek of freedom? or to do catharsis? or to say that you are happy? And just for only trolling?

Just to pass on information

 

[JohnWick]

Just to pass on information

So you are gonna give our info back to us....
Nice.

 

[Saahir Malik]

So you are gonna give our info back to us....
Nice.

I'm just wondering how many IAF AB are in IOj&k & how many are in AZAD KASHMIR.....
Perhaps you can put up something here

 

[JohnWick]

I'm just wondering how many IAF AB are in IOj&k & how many are in AZAD KASHMIR.....
Perhaps you can put up something here

Lets start with the very beginning, Do you want freedom from India? After freedom what status do you want
As an independent state? or a state under Nuclear umbrella of Pakistan? or join Pakistan completely?

 

[ziaulislam]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

Whats important is that even india wont agree to this, i think pakistan atleast wants this an example interim step/part of normalization, india wants this to be the definitive solution ans will not accept this as an interm step

and kashmiris will defintively not...

 

[jamahir]

1. Status Quo for the Indian stance.

4. Imposition of "progressive" political Pakistan... While India remains a pseudo-secular and actual Hindutva.

Sorry but you have not the solution correctly.

Firstly I propose a drastic reduction of Indian armed forces in IAK. The remaining will be for collaborating with the civilian Kashmiris to oppose acts by regressive elements like Asiya Andrabi. In fact only the Kashmir-Muslim-comprising local police can be strengthened and the external forces removed.

Secondly, I propose replacement of the current Indian political system too by the progressive Third Universal Theory / Jamahiriya theory / Direct Democracy Socialism. So no Hindutva in India.

Whats important is that even india wont agree to this, i think pakistan atleast wants this an example interim step/part of normalization, india wants this to be the definitive solution ans will not accept this as an interm step

and kashmiris will defintively not...

Well, the late Muammar Gaddafi had put across part of this solution at the UNO General Assembly so there is already a small momentum. If the progressives in India and Pakistan who arrange cross-border peace initiatives like Aman Ki Asha can be informed of such a solution I think the Supreme Courts and civil society in both countries can create conditions for change in say ten years.

 

[jamahir]

if they vacate the valley because they are not comfortable with majority

Come on, they were driven out. There were militant elements like Bitta Karate.

I know that there have been incidents against Kashmiri Muslims like the Kunan-Poshpora incident and the pellet firing and other such incidents. And the lockdown from last year. But how long should the Kashmiris struggle ? Should they not look at a truly peace solution ? And I am not just talking about the Kashmir issue but a radical, wider change in India and Pakistan. The solution to become adopted is as simple as each member on this forum considering it and talking about it offline.

 

[letsrock]

Come on, they were driven out. There were militant elements like Bitta Karate.

I know that there have been incidents against Kashmiri Muslims like the Kunan-Poshpora incident and the pellet firing and other such incidents. And the lockdown from last year. But how long should the Kashmiris struggle ? Should they not look at a truly peace solution ? And I am not just talking about the Kashmir issue but a radical, wider change in India and Pakistan. The solution to become adopted is as simple as each member on this forum considering it and talking about it offline.

THey werent driven out. They left because they had choices. You are confusing an ultra elite community like kashmiri pandits who reigned over its bureaucracy and has ruling family in Delhi (Nehru) with some poor refugees. That shows you havent done your research at all.

So is your problem with "length" of struggle not the justice part of it. And you are not looking at truly peaceful solution. You are looking for a cowardly compromise of the struggle. Will it last ? how long would an entire people keep their head down?

 

[jamahir]

They left because they had choices.

Can you elaborate ?

So is your problem with "length" of struggle not the justice part of it.

I am concerned with justice.

And you are not looking at truly peaceful solution. You are looking for a cowardly compromise of the struggle.

Why do you say so ?

Will it last ? how long would an entire people keep their head down?

The title of the OP is "lasting peace".

 

[letsrock]

Can you elaborate ?

well the obvious choice is to support what your people want and give voice to it. Are kashmiri pandits not kashmiri? but instead they supported the guns and sided with an entity on basis of anti-muslims. Is that not a choice ? lets say you are part of maharashtra if 99 percent of your people want something will you side with other party and encourage guns on to your people based on religion ?

If kashmiri pandits gave voice it would have been a powerful voice. They have a huge representation in indian bureacracy - but always and everytime they went against kashmiri muslims - right from arrest of sheik abdullah.