A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[BATMAN]

I understand from the posts of my Pakistani brethren that "no political solution is possible" of the Indo-Pak Kashmir dispute. Undoubtedly, the longer we leave it, the less likely it is that the problem could be resolved. We must also understand that limited wars, like the ones in 1948, 1965 & the Kargil, are not going to get us Kashmir, it needs to be a fight to finish.

Do we wait for India to attack us or should we start the hostilities?

Best option is to wait for Indian hostilities, but than after lesson learned on 27th February, India is not going to come close to Pakistani border, at least not until they have Rafaels and this is confirmed by Modi.
So if we need to liberate Kashmir, we need to have an army General like Pervez MUsharraf, who can design a clever way to annihilate Indian army and at the same time not get intimidated by PM.

27th February was such a golden chance, that Pakistan was on right side of the history and battle.
Some stooge at the top, blew it all.

 

[volatile]

Who will then feed the Millitary complex ,establishment of both countries ,Kashmir is a good business worth around 70 Billion US $ annually in both parts of the world .Kashmir will never get solved

 

[jamahir]

Best option is to wait for Indian hostilities, but than after lesson learned on 27th February, India is not going to come close to Pakistani border, at least not until they have Rafaels and this is confirmed by Modi.
So if we need to liberate Kashmir, we need to have an army General like Pervez MUsharraf, who can design a clever way to annihilate Indian army and at the same time not get intimidated by PM.

27th February was such a golden chance, that Pakistan was on right side of the history and battle.
Some stooge at the top, blew it all.

Brother, my thread is about a peaceful solution to Kashmir via the same progressive political and economic system in both countries.

Pretty simple no first off why would Pakistan a country smaller in size and population would want to be economically,politically, and socially dominated by India

When did I say that ? I am talking of political, social and economic change in India too. A radical one. Please read the OP again, especially the parts about Direct Democracy Socialism.

and besides both sides of the border have pseudo religious extreme folks and yahoos making any form of a said union not work

1. I am not talking about a union, though SAARC can still exist as an economic platform.

2. A move towards proactive socialism in both countries will take care of the religious yahoos. But yes, this will take an effort especially by the youth.

Maintaining status quo is not a compromise - that is essentially the Indian demand.

I am not talking about maintaining the status quo. I speak of change. In India too.

Mr. Jamahir believes he can sugar coat Akhand Bharat as some sort of socialist republic. Even the most Mughal of Pakistani people do not obsess over this but alas this is what we are given to work with. what can we do

No Akhand Bharat in my thoughts. I gave the example of Iraq and Syria because they were two independent republics who had a common political ideology. Iraq wasn't imposing itself on Syria, nor Syria on Iraq.

 

[Naofumi]

Jamahir bhai, ye baat mazhab ki hai. Kashmir is a Hindu-Muslim matter and religion will not go for another 60 years from the subcontinent.

 

[jamahir]

And like I said in my first post on this thread, Pakistan is going through its own internal political evolution. There is plenty of chaos and confusion internally about the direction of Pakistan's political system & the nature of the State without adding in a move towards some kind of 'identical political system' with India.

Since anyway, as you say, Pakistan is going through a change why not look at an alternate system ? Such an adoption would be ever easier.

Imran Khan wants a Riyasat-e-Madina style welfare state so why not look at pre-2011 Libya as model ?

The right-wing (religious and non-religious) would never allow that to happen, especially if it is combined with the proposed selling out of Indian Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.

Well, the citizens just have to look at other Eastern societies which overthrew the right-wingers. There is no message written on the sky that calls for preventing such a change. It should be as simple as people adopting the change. It will certainly take some convincing but people like you and I should keep trying to convince.

 

[CrazyZ]

Since anyway, as you say, Pakistan is going through a change why not look at an alternate system ? Such an adoption would be ever easier.

Imran Khan wants a welfare state so why not look at pre-2011 Libya as model ?



Well, the citizens just have to look at other Eastern societies which overthrew the right-wingers. There is no message written on the sky that calls for preventing such a change. It should be as simple as people adopting the change. It will certainly take some convincing but people like you and I should keep trying to convince.

Why stop at India and Pakistan......lets have a one world government.

 

[jamahir]

Jamahir bhai, ye baat mazhab ki hai. Kashmir is a Hindu-Muslim matter and religion will not go for another 60 years from the subcontinent.

Religion and ego.

Why stop at India and Pakistan......lets have a one world government.

That's the idea. Look at my signature.

 

[Cliftonite]

@jamahir dekho bhaiya hum South Asian log bohot jazbaati hotay hain. The emotional baggage of partition and 2 centuries of enmity is too much to get past. Warna I would have liked that the Northwest area of India and the adjoining area in Pakistan have a US-Canada kind of visa arrangement and cultural exchange. As much as my nationalist brothers would like to deny it, we have much in common. I personally as a Muhajir feel a certain sense of familiarity in the mannerism and 'adaigi' when I hear a kattar UP-ite speaking Urdu like Atika Farooqui or Arfa Khanum Sherwani or even Birju Maharaj for that matter. More so than when I hear a Pathan or Punjabi like Sheikh Rashid speaking Urdu.

@Naofumi some troll will now come and tell me (delhiite in karachi) to get lost to India lol.

 

[Naofumi]

Religion and ego.



That's the idea. Look at my signature.

You live in an utopia, huh. Sweet dreams.

@jamahir dekho bhaiya hum South Asian log bohot jazbaati hotay hain. The emotional baggage of partition and 2 centuries of enmity is too much to get past. Warna I would have liked that the Northwest area of India and the adjoining area in Pakistan have a US-Canada kind of visa arrangement and cultural exchange. As much as my nationalist brothers would like to deny it, we have much in common. I personally as a Muhajir feel a certain sense of familiarity in the mannerism and 'adaigi' when I hear a kattar UP-ite speaking Urdu like Atika Farooqui or Arfa Khanum Sherwani or even Birju Maharaj for that matter. More so than when I hear a Pathan or Punjabi like Sheikh Rashid speaking Urdu.

@Naofumi some troll will now come and tell me (delhiite in karachi) to get lost to India lol.

Wait for some years - 60 or more. Before that push for economic reforms in the country, economic prosperity is inversely proportional to religious extremism generally.

Imran Khan wants a Riyasat-e-Madina style welfare state so why not look at pre-2011 Libya as model ?

Because Pakistan don't have vast reserves of Oil.

 

[jamahir]

You live in an utopia, huh. Sweet dreams.

Didn't Fidel Castro, Che Guevara and their chums live in an utopia before liberating Cuba ?

@jamahir dekho bhaiya hum South Asian log bohot jazbaati hotay hain.

Agreed. Calm rationality is culturally not an expected trait in our part of the world.

Warna I would have liked that the Northwest area of India and the adjoining area in Pakistan have a US-Canada kind of visa arrangement and cultural exchange. As much as my nationalist brothers would like to deny it, we have much in common. I personally as a Muhajir feel a certain sense of familiarity in the mannerism and 'adaigi' when I hear a kattar UP-ite speaking Urdu like Atika Farooqui or Arfa Khanum Sherwani or even Birju Maharaj for that matter. More so than when I hear a Pathan or Punjabi like Sheikh Rashid speaking Urdu.

By the way, this Atika is quite a pretty lass.

Her Twitter page says she is a UNO speaker. I think I will enjoy exchanging various "political positions" with her.

 

[Cliftonite]

Didn't Fidel Castro, Che Guevara and their chums live in an utopia before liberating Cuba ?



Agreed. Calm rationality is culturally not an expected trait in our part of the world.





By the way, this Atika is quite a pretty lass.

Her Twitter page says she is a UNO speaker. I think I will enjoy exchanging various "political positions" with her.

Loool special emphasis on "political positions"

 

[Naofumi]

Didn't Fidel Castro, Che Guevara and their chums live in an utopia before liberating Cuba ?

False equivalence, neither USSR is here to support a coup nor people like communists.
And their GDP has contracted since.

 

[jamahir]

Because Pakistan did not have vast reserves of Oil.

So how does Pakistan survive now ? Pakistan's military budget for 2019 was 10.3 billion dollars. Reduce this drastically.

And the government, in 2019, has made a good decision regarding the Hajj subsidy :

Putting an end to speculations around the decision on Hajj subsidy, the government has decided to abolish the financial support given to pilgrims. The decision was taken last week during the federal cabinet meeting, chaired by Prime Minister Imran Khan. The Hajj policy for 2019 and the proposal of the Ministry for Religious Affairs to grant a subsidy of Rs 45,000 to each pilgrim was discussed. The PMLN government, in its last tenure, had given a subsidy of Rs 45,000 to each pilgrim. However, the current PTI government decided to discontinue this subsidy in the new policy. According to this new policy, the government quota for pilgrims will be 60 per cent, and the private travel agencies will get a share of 40 per cent.

The government’s decision is a welcoming one. Hajj is the fifth pillar of Islam and mandatory for Muslims that must be carried out at least once by all adult Muslims who are physically and financially capable of undertaking the journey. If a Muslim does not have the financial means to carry out the Hajj, he/she will not be penalised for it. In the wake of these circumstances, the Hajj subsidy makes no sense either ethically or religiously.

So the money freed up from things like these

Besides, the Third Universal Theory is universal.

False equivalence, neither USSR is here to support a coup nor people like communists.
And their GDP has contracted since.

The Cuban revolution did not have the support of the USSR. We should think of a people's movement along the lines of the AAP movement in India. Imran Khan already has made the start. He should keep the momentum going.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Brother, my thread is about a peaceful solution to Kashmir via the same progressive political and economic system in both countries.

You are mixing up two things. A lot of neighbouring countries with various political systems live in peace with each other. Finding peace is a different process and finding the correct political process in each of our country is a different process. You want to achieve 3 difficult things when we haven't been able to achieve one in 70 years.

 

[jamahir]

You are mixing up two things. A lot of neighbouring countries with various political systems live in peace with each other. Finding peace is a different process and finding the correct political process in each of our country is a different process. You want to achieve 3 difficult things when we haven't been able to achieve one in 70 years.

i get your point but is it not simpler if...

(a). Finding peace between India and Pakistan
(b). Solving the Kashmir issue
(c). Bringing a Progressive political and economic system to both countries.​

..all come through a single method ?