A Pakistani's Message from Dammam Saudi Arabia Jail

[acid rain]

yea u r right.but i think u guys now are enough filled already so now we can officially call u ....... right??

Why does one go to the zoo or to the circus. .For entertainment...right?..so officially all of you are our......

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I visited Saudi Arabia and I didn't see one single Arab construction worker, bus driver or any other job that is considered as a 'low' job in Arabia. So yes you will 'survive' if they leave your country, but you will be paralyzed for a good amount of time. They are doing you a much greater favor than you are doing for them.

Firstly I very much doubt that you have ever visited KSA and if you have you only visited it for a very short time for Hajj or Umrah. Meaning that you were mostly confined to either Jeddah, Ta'if, Makkah or Madinah. Foreign pilgrims cannot travel freely in KSA. The visit might have been years ago too.

KSA is the size of Western Europe and in some regions and many large cities there are almost no foreigners at all. But of course you don't know that neither most foreigners for obvious reasons. Somehow those provinces and major cities survive absolutely fine.

Lastly I find it hilarious that you can see who is a local, who is an Arab from outside of KSA and who is a South Asian while you don't even understand Arabic. I very much doubt that you would be able to distinguish between the dialect spoken in for instance Basra, Sana'a and Amman with that spoken in Madinah for instance or be able to distinguish people from those areas from each other. Did you speak with even 1 single worker or did you even visit more than 5 working sites let alone private firms?

Such comments are absolutely hilarious.

Your post is absolutely hilarious considering that you can find Saudi Arabian engineers and construction workers (and firms) all across KSA in the thousands. Let alone in Makkah and Madinah which have been huge building sites for a few years now due to the expansion projects.

I am afraid that you don't understand the dynamics of the South Asian labor force in the GCC or more specifically KSA.

Lastly it's a fact that the local population is increasing for each year and it's also a fact that the youth is among the most educated in the MENA region and that won't change anytime soon. In fact it will just improve for each year.

For instance KSA has more students at US universities per capita than any other country on earth and in terms of sheer numbers KSA is only behind 1.3 billion big China, 1.2 billion big India and 55 million big South Korea.

More Saudi Arabians studying in the U.S. - latimes

The thing is that South Asian workers are sending a HUGE number of remittances back to their home countries and those people cannot work anywhere else in the immediate neighborhood as neither the EU or USA would ever accept so many workers.

Not only that millions upon millions of similar workers from across the Arab world and immediate area are/would be willing to take their place if necessary.

If GCC opened it's gates for migrants without any rules the GCC would be flooded by millions upon millions of lowly skilled and highly skilled foreigners trying to earn a living. That's just a fact.

So yes, we will be fine. No need for you to worry. My posts in this thread have even been thanked by a well-informed Pakistani who once lived in KSA for years in various regions and he is no fan of the House of Saud from what I can deduct.

Nowhere did I ever say that there are no benefits involved with foreign workers but it's not a one-sided race by any means and if you had bothered to read my detailed posts about this topic you would have understood that too but I guess it's easier to write nonsense posts like you just did.

I am just like most sane people grateful to any foreigner who has contributed to KSA and the GCC and I never wrote that foreigners, including South Asians, Arabs or Eskimos, should not be welcome. What I wrote is that certain changes are needed and I have written about this in detail in this thread. Instead of trolling/kickstarting your anti-Arab agenda read those posts first before trolling.

@Metanoia

I think that some times things shoukd be seen in full context...
Laws are tough and strictly applied in GCC ..that does also mean law abiding citizens are safe..
You can leave your car engine running with a/c on and go into a shop and return after half an hour and will have no issues...
Infact this is routine here...

Quiet a few people making alot of noise are those who have or want to break the law...

System is not perfect... there are alot to inprove but we have also seen having too laxily applied laws and situation created by them not only in asia but also in europe and america...

Before some one hypes on western bandwagon, i know in london apart from central its not usually safe to walk after 10 pm may be... and in newyork during my recent trip 8 peopke were shot on day i landed there in eandom crimes spree....

So balance right and wrong...

The only thing is law should be equally applied in Gcc as per islamic law and even royals shud not be above it

GCC is one of the most safe areas of the world in a otherwise very volatile and unstable part of the world (MENA) despite lying in the middle of that region.

I have never felt unsafe anywhere in the GCC be it in KSA, Oman or Kuwait for instance. In Paris I feel much more unsafe and the crime rates in that city are also many times higher than in the GCC just to make an example.

Rulers everywhere are in a favorable position in terms of avoiding the law whether in the GCC or the West. Money + power + influence = guarantee of avoiding punishments that a ordinary person would likely receive. In the West it's different but even there the leaders/people in power can get away with a lot and when got they often escape scot free or very mildly. I can give you many of such examples just from France.

 

[chhota bheem]

you indian beat someone just for buying a cow now you talk about drugs smuggling
you indians i don't know how do you thinking ,, damn how stupid you are !!

Dude are we talking about ordinary saudies killing Pakistanies or others here,we are talking about laws of the country, if someone beats someone in India for buying a cow then its aginst the law any one can buy a cow.state dsnt allow that.

The reason i am so much against death for drugs is because i have known cases where people are trapped or they dont even know they are carrying drugs.people who go to KSA are poor and who are not that well educated.KSA should deport them if they dont want them in the country.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are not reading what I am writing. Every single country (almost) is in need of foreign labor to some extend especially a region such as the GCC that is booming in terms of infrastructural projects. It's one of the most busy regions of the world which offers a lot of work. Almost a 2 trillion dollar economy (GDP nominal) too.

What I am saying (and many others) is that reforms are needed. There should be fewer foreign workers (Arab as non-Arab) and mostly skilled labour should be sought after. In KSA most women (although this is thankfully changing) are out of the labor market DESPITE being better educated than the men (having degrees from universities in the West and at home etc.). This is the fault of the regime in KSA and the system in place there. If more was done for integrating women in the workforce, if certain idiotic fairly recent laws were changed etc. it would remove the need for millions of unskilled/lowly skilled laborers from abroad.

Similarily many skilled Saudi Arabian men are outsourced by cheaper but equally as skilled foreign labour. Many are highly educated yet cannot contribute due to this reason. You see the same in Western Europe when cheaper/more motivated workers (be it doctors or laborers) from Eastern Europe outsource locals. Also there are obviously many non-skilled locals who could easily take some of the jobs that foreigners do but either they don't want to or cannot because private companies do not want to employ them as their demands are bigger than that of a Bangladeshi (for instance) that went to KSA to feed his family.

You see this is not only about foreign labor but also the need of laws and attitudes to change in KSA. What I am trying to tell you here is that KSA is not small Qatar that absolutely needs foreign workers because locals only number 500.000 people. KSA will do fine on the long run (it will be felt obviously in the first few years) if most South Asian laborers left.

I want to see the exchange of skilled labor. The truth is that most (if not all almost) Westerners in the GCC are skilled laborers hence they are more sought after.

Why are you speaking to me like I owned a slave farm or stating the obvious? Everyone should be treated according to the law. Not everyone is following the law and as we can see this is something that middlemen from within GCC and South Asia benefit from. The exploitation of poor people. Something that happens by the millions in South Asia among South Asians and in the Arab world among Arabs. You won't ever be able to stop that at most try to limit it.

Same story in the US vis-á-vis Latin Americans which you must be familiar with.

I have not even mentioned the illegal migrants in KSA and the GCC. After Ramadan and Umrah this year when millions upon millions of foreigners visited KSA, thousands upon thousands of them never went back and are now illegals.



In "jail without trail". That makes no sense. Those people in your video are with more or less full certainty illegals or people who have breached their visa rules and have thus been detained. It's normal practice across the entire world. Non-EU citizens who have breeched their visa rules are also held all across the EU "without trail" until their deportation or case has been dealt with. Because they are considered "illegal aliens" under most national law systems.

If the rules are followed you won't have any problems whatsoever with the authorities at most you can face problems from your sponsor or boss at work but that is another discussion altogether.

In the end South Asian regimes are responsible for taking care for their most vulnerable people home and abroad and they are doing a very, very miserable job at that. Blame none but your regimes. Once again it's not the job of GCC to give opportunities to those people to have a better life but the responsibility of the South Asian regimes.

The GCC should take care of their most vulnerable people (unemployed ones for instance) first and give them the best job opportunities etc. They are not doing that currently and shooting themselves in the foot. I don't like that. That's it. I want to see unemployed locals and especially women working in highly skilled and lowly skilled jobs. Not foreigners. For that to happen at a greater rate certain local attitudes must change and certain idiotic laws must be removed. Yes, foreigners (be they non-local Arabs or Eskimos) should be welcome to work and live in the GCC but their overall number should decrease and the focus should mostly be on skilled foreign workforce. Hope I made myself clear now.

But surely being Muslims should they not be allowed to live in Saudia Arabia permanenty? Islam does nnot recognize any divisins? Ever heard of the Ummah?

If the Kaffir USA and UK allow that?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

But surely being Muslims should they not be allowed to live in Saudia Arabia permanenty? Islam does nnot recognize any divisins? Ever heard of the Ummah?

If the Kaffir USA and UK allow that?

First of all It's called Saudi Arabia.

Secondly foreigners can live permanently in KSA and the GCC. Some have never lived anywhere else despite not being locals. Many with origins in the Arab world, Pakistan, Indonesia, Horn of Africa, India, Bangladesh, Central Asia, Turkey etc. The whole Muslim world basically. Many non-Muslims too.

KSA hosts more non-local Muslims than any other country in the world and recently gave long-permanent/longterm residency to persecuted Rohingya people that everyone in the Muslim world had shun.

In any case each country have their own laws and KSA is no different. Countries in the Arab world and MENA region don't usually give passports to foreigners regardless of them being born there or not. Unless they have an ancestral connection.

It's no different in your beloved Iran where Afghans are treated as third-class citizens. A people that Iranians have much more in common with than Pakistanis. They can't receive a passport either.

I am partially European and I happen to live in Europe. So you can go and play your "kaffir games" with equals. But obviously it's much easier for foreigners to receive a passport in the West which is something that many locals also criticize and it's much harder nowadays for foreigners outside of the EU to get that unless they are political refugees, highly qualified or have married with EU citizens and stayed in a EU country for quite some time.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

First of all It's called Saudi Arabia.

Secondly foreigners can live permanently in KSA and the GCC. Some have never lived anywhere else despite not being locals. Many with origins in the Arab world, Pakistan, Indonesia, Horn of Africa, India, Bangladesh, Central Asia, Turkey etc. The whole Muslim world basically. Many non-Muslims too.

KSA hosts more non-local Muslims than any other country in the world and recently gave long-permanent/longterm residency to persecuted Rohingya people that everyone in the Muslim world had shun.

In any case each country have their own laws and KSA is no different. Countries in the Arab world and MENA region don't usually give passports to foreigners regardless of them being born there or not. Unless they have an ancestral connection.

It's no different in your beloved Iran where Afghans are treated as third-class citizens. A people that Iranians have much more in common with than Pakistanis. They can't receive a passport either.

I am partially European and I happen to live in Europe. So you can go and play your "kaffir games" with equals. But obviously it's much easier for foreigners to receive a passport in the West which is something that many locals also criticize and it's much harder nowadays for foreigners outside of the EU to get that unless they are political refugees, highly qualified or have married with EU citizens and stayed in a EU country for quite some time.

What is name got to do with anything. Calling it Mars won't change the fact that your Muslim. Why division of peoples alonge . Arab, Mena, Asian la la?

Fact is Saudia being Muslim, being custodian of Islam should allow any Muslim to live there. What is it? Selective Islam? Is that what this is?

And you don't support the largest non local Muslim population in your country compared to your economy. At any rate most of them are workers that you asked for. However Pakistan hosts the largest refugee population in the Muslim world.

And do you eyesight problem? Do you see those two green crescent flags? Trust me it is not the Iranian flag. I am Bakistani.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

What is name got to do with anything. Calling it Mars won't change the fact that your Muslim. Why division of peoples alonge . Arab, Mena, Asian la la?

Fact is Saudia being Muslim, being custodian of Islam should allow any Muslim to live there. What is it? Selective Islam? Is that what this is?

And you don't support the largest non local Muslim population in your country compared to your economy. At any rate most of them are workers that you asked for. However Pakistan hosts the largest refugee population in the Muslim world.

And do you eyesight problem? Do you see those two green crescent flags? Trust me it is not the Iranian flag. I am Bakistani.

That division is something that Arabs and non-Arabs have created themselves and both are equally as guilty. Can't you see what is going on in the Muslim world? What is going on in Pakistan? In the ME? Or in the world as a whole? Has humanism not largely failed when millions of people are dying of hunger each year in Africa and South Asia? I think so but that's another discussion.

Look, you should ask the regimes that are ruling most Muslim countries such questions. Most common folks in those countries, including KSA, have little say when it comes to state policies.

Are you even reading what I am writing to you? I just told you that KSA is hosting the biggest number of foreign Muslims of all Muslim countries on the planet. So the question is why the hell you are singling KSA out here? Must be the evident bias.

Also Muslims of all nationalities LIVE and WORK in KSA.

What do you want exactly? For KSA to host 100 million impoverished Muslims from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh, 30 million from the Arab world and 50 million from Africa before you are content? Where are the other countries in this picture?

No, my eye sight is perfectly fine and it has noticed a lot of sucking up to Iran so I just wanted to expand your horizon on this topic (citizenship in the MENA region) in case you had any delusions which I suspect.

Anyway I have wasted enough of my time in this thread and got my factual points across well enough for most people to grasp them. Whether they do or not is not my problem quite frankly.

Long live Al-Bakistan indeed. Cheers buddy.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

That division is something that Arabs and non-Arabs have created themselves and both are equally as guilty. Can't you see what is going on in the Muslim world? What is going on in Pakistan? In the ME? Or in the world as a whole? Has humanism not largely failed when millions of people are dying of hunger each year in Africa and South Asia? I think so but that's another discussion.

Look, you should ask the regimes that are ruling most Muslim countries such questions. Most common folks in those countries, including KSA, have little say when it comes to state policies.

Are you even reading what I am writing to you? I just told you that KSA is hosting the biggest number of foreign Muslims of all Muslim countries on the planet. So the question is why the hell you are singling KSA out here? Must be the evident bias.

Also Muslims of all nationalities LIVE and WORK in KSA.

What do you want exactly? For KSA to host 100 million impoverished Muslims from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh, 30 million from the Arab world and 50 million from Africa before you are content? Where are the other countries in this picture?

No, my eye sight is perfectly fine and it has noticed a lot of sucking up to Iran so I just wanted to expand your horizon on this topic (citizenship in the MENA region) in case you had any delusions which I suspect.

Anyway I have wasted enough of my time in this thread and got my factual points across well enough for most people to grasp them. Whether they do or not is not my problem quite frankly.

Long live Al-Bakistan indeed. Cheers buddy.

Look I don't have anything against Arab people. My previous post was just poor attempt at satire. You seem to be a agreeable chap so peace and respect to you.

I think Saudia needs to look after itself. Its your oil and your future. I don't buy into this "ummah" concept. That poor attempt at satire was actually directed at fellow Pakistani's many of whom have smoked the pipe of "ummadom",

Saudia or Pakistan or Iran will and should serve their self interests. Lets be honest about it. I don't suck to nobody. Never have and never will. You don't know the people I hail from. We don't suck to nobody. However I respect people where it is due. I accorded you that on account of your previous post.

I accord that to Iranians or Persians. They have been the purveyors of refined culture for centuries. In addition they are a sophisticated people who I respect for that. The oil is not just their qualufier. Think Bahrain? Oil. Think UAE? Oil. Think Oman? Oil. Think Kuwait? Oil.

That is because these "countries" are zero without oil. You might as well call United Emirates of Oil, Or Sheikhdom of Oil. They are defined by, they are lifted by, they are articulated by oil.

Iran of course is differant. Why not go to 1950 before the oil and see my point.

At any rate peace to you.

Ps. I would add here though that the Saudia monarchy I hold in utter comtempt.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Look I don't have anything against Arab people. My previous post was just poor attempt at satire. You seem to be a agreeable chap so peace and respect to you.

I think Saudia needs to look after itself. Its your oil and your future. I don't buy into this "ummah" concept. That poor attempt at satire was actually directed at fellow Pakistani's many of whom have smoked the pipe of "ummadom",

Saudia or Pakistan or Iran will and should serve their self interests. Lets be honest about it. I don't suck to nobody. Never have and never will. You don't know the people I hail from. We don't suck to nobody. However I respect people where it is due. I accorded you that on account of your previous post.

I accord that to Iranians or Persians. They have been the purveyors of refined culture for centuries. In addition they are a sophisticated people who I respect for that. The oil is not just their qualufier. Think Bahrain? Oil. Think UAE? Oil. Think Oman? Oil. Think Kuwait? Oil.

That is because these "countries" are zero without oil. You might as well call United Emirates of Oil, Or Sheikhdom of Oil. They are defined by, they are lifted by, they are articulated by oil.

Iran of course is differant. Why not go to 1950 before the oil and see my point.

At any rate peace to you.

Ps. I would add here though that the Saudia monarchy I hold in utter comtempt.

I don't have any problem with any user here outside of banter as I don't know them in person so there is nothing to dislike and the internet should not be taken seriously more than necessary although I often catch myself in doing just that which is a waste of time on such forums and in general.

Ummah cannot work between states because states are not persons but entities that evolve around money, power and influence. That is why certain states (read regimes) can have rivalries/bad ties with brotherly countries from a people to people perspective. The Arab world is a good example of that and previously Europe was the foremost example of that before the Europeans matured and stop killing each other. Hint, they killed 100 millions (!) of each other during WW1 and WW2. Just 20 years ago 250.000 perished in the middle of Europe (Balkans). The people in the Muslim world need a concept like the EU or at least more cooperation and stop the senseless killings, sectarianism and other idiotic behaviors that are fueled by various peoples and groups. Meanwhile the vast majority of the people want to live their own lives in peace.

Regardless of sucking up or not I noticed (and even notice in this post I am replying to) a certain bias or let me say ignorance vis-á-vis the Arab world, Arabs and their history, culture etc. We all have biases so that's fair enough.

Buddy, I am not trying to insult you here but the Arab world is home to the oldest recorded civilizations on the planet and the longest inhabited cities. It's known as the cradle of civilization and the Fertile crescent is located in the Arab world as well.

Cradle of civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arabian Peninsula itself is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet and some of the longest inhabited cities.

Pre-Islamic Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moreovoer the Arabian Peninsula is the longest inhabited place on the planet after Southern and Eastern Africa along with Northern Africa.

Almost all people of South Asia today and the remaining world, their ancestors once lived on the Arabian Peninsula for 1000's of years before they migrated elsewhere. This is a genetic fact that has been confirmed by genetic studies and the pattern of human migrations.



Both routes crossing the Arabian Peninsula.

Oman is home to ancient civilizations, some of the oldest in the region and world.

History of Oman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have a very long recorded history and were a regional power and a colonial power with holdings in Iran, Eastern Africa and South Asia. They owned Gwadar until recently before they sold it to Pakistan.






Kuwait was part of Sumer (the first real civilization on the planet) and obviously has a long history too that is connected to nearby Mesopotamia and Eastern Arabia.

History of Kuwait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bahrain, despite being a small island, was home to one of the oldest civilizations in the world called Dilmun which incorporated modern-day Eastern Province of KSA, Bahrain and parts of Kuwait.

History of Bahrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dilmun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dilmun in Bahrain and Eastern KSA and Magan in Oman were trading partners with Sumer and

The Dilmun civilization existed from 2600 BC until 300 BC. In short they appeared almost 2000 years before the Parthians (the first Iranian dynasty).



I don't know whatever prejudices you held or how much you know about the history of the Arab world etc. but taken a look at this thread below or starting to read ancient history would help.

Arab, Semitic & Hamitic Empires and Ancient Kingdoms

And yes, I am perfectly aware of the history of the ancient of what is now Pakistan too, an ancient history that in many ways had quite close connections to ancient civilizations across the Arabian Sea such as those two I mentioned (Dilmun and Magan).

This article might interest you.

http://www.penn.museum/documents/publications/expedition/PDFs/6-3/The Indus.pdf

Written by one of the most eminent professors of ancient Near Eastern history. So not your Average Joe.

In short Arabs are one of the proudest people on the planet and one of the people that hold most tightly to their ancient traditions although the culture nowadays is influenced a lot by Islam although we have not forgot our ancient history. While most people in there region have left many of their traditions in the dustbin or something as simple as traditional attire many Arabs have not.

In any case each people have their positives and negatives. Same with history. At the end of the day we all originate from the same source and place. Whether you believe in scriptures or science (genetics).

Anyway we are extremely off-topic here and I think that you have got a wrong opinion of what I have written in this thread so if you have the time and bother you should really reread my posts in this thread.

I have taken no offense either as I wrote and peace to you as well.

P.S.: I have no affinity to any Muslim regimes although I have my preferences but I myself along with most Arabs want to see significant political and social changes including the rule of our regimes. House of Saud are not saints but they are neither devils. What is sure is that they need to reform and I would not cry if they were gone tomorrow but it all depends on what will follow after them! You are free to insult the House of Saud as much as you want to (I always told that you everyone here) as I won't take offense. I will take offense if critics of Arab regimes went our their anger/hatred/frustration at the 450 million Arabs who have mostly absolutely nothing to do with those regimes. I think that is a reasonable demand and it is no different if someone wants to criticize the politicians and past military regimes etc. of Pakistan. Or other Muslim and non-Muslim countries.

For instance I personally have nothing against Jews (they are our neighbors and our cousins) but I do have my objections when it comes to their regimes past and present. Mainly obviously because of their policy towards Palestine. I hope that you get my point here.

Damn, I really have to cut down the length of my posts somehow. Never mind.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Saif al-Arab

They say intelligence is the best weapon of all. I guess that is true. That was a excellant summation you made there. It was a joy to read. I am broadly aware of the history of Arabia. I don't want to detract from what you said but you are aware that the "Arab" descriptor as understood is post 7th century construct. North Africa, Levantine was not "Arab" speaking prior to "Arabization" of those lands however I don't want to detract from the thrust of your argument.

In particular you had the decency of noting Indus valley and it's connections with Dilmun, Sumer and other Persian Gulf sites as IVC seals and vice versa have been found. Most of all I thank you for not calling IVC Indian.

Indus valley like Nile valley is 95% in Pakistan. Although the amount of sound given off by India most of the world thinks it the other way around 95% in India and 5% in Pakistan. It's like Sudan taking Egypts glory.

Anyway it's been pleasure talking to you and I will certainy respect your position even if I don't agree with you all the time. Let me reiterate again you did great job in making me look at KSA from differant vantage point.

I hope Saif, that we can one day also follow the European model. Look at them all now. We are still killing each other. I think we the educated have moral duty to start the change in our respective countries.

All the best to you. I look forward to more discussions with you in future.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Saif al-Arab

They say intelligence is the best weapon of all. I guess that is true. That was a excellant summation you made there. It was a joy to read. I am broadly aware of the history of Arabia. I don't want to detract from what you said but you are aware that the "Arab" descriptor as understood is post 7th century construct. North Africa, Levantine was not "Arab" speaking prior to "Arabization" of those lands however I don't want to detract from the thrust of your argument.

In particular you had the decency of noting Indus valley and it's connections with Dilmun, Sumer and other Persian Gulf sites as IVC seals and vice versa have been found. Most of all I thank you for not calling IVC Indian.

Indus valley like Nile valley is 95% in Pakistan. Although the amount of sound given off by India most of the world thinks it the other way around 95% in India and 5% in Pakistan. It's like Sudan taking Egypts glory.

Anyway it's been pleasure talking to you and I will certainy respect your position even if I don't agree with you all the time. Let me reiterate again you did great job in making me look at KSA from differant vantage point.

I hope Saif, that we can one day also follow the European model. Look at them all now. We are still killing each other. I think we the educated have moral duty to start the change in our respective countries.

All the best to you. I look forward to more discussions with you in future.

No need for any praise my friend. We are just exchanging opinions as civilized people rather than having silly discussions based on prejudice or petty misunderstandings. That's how it should be. Unfortunately neither the internet or "real life" is necessarily a guarantee of that sadly hence why humans are experts in creating divisions, engaging in wars and general misery. We just have to look at our past and present.

Without going too much into detail here then the ancient history of the Arab world (from the first human migrations until Islam) is quite complex and covers many layers. Be it the history of Arabia, Arabs as a people and their pre-Islamic ancestors (who range from ancient Akkadians, Amorites, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Himyarites and dozens upon dozens of ancient peoples etc.) who were/are mostly Semites.

In short the modern-day peoples of today in the ME (main ones that we hear about), meaning Arabs, Persians and Jews appeared in written historical records approximately 3000 years ago but before that time period those people "did not exist" as Arabs, Persians or Jews but were obviously formed by native peoples who inhabited the regions that they first appeared in. They were obviously also not fully homogenous and their ancestry was formed by many layers of different peoples mostly those found before those peoples in the lands that they appeared in.

In the case of Arabs (people speaking Arabic and identifying with Arab culture, having a degree of Arab ancestry etc.) ranging from Morocco to Oman ALL belonged to Semitic or Hamitic peoples and civilizations. Thus related peoples. The ancient Nabateans in Hijaz, Southern Jordan and Southern Syria and what is now Israel who gave rise to World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Petra in Jordan, Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Bosra in Syria and Asvat in Israel were Semites (some consider them ancient Arabs but their original language was not Arabic but another Semitic language despite originating in Hijaz, KSA) and thus related with nearby Semitic/Hamitic populations such as Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, Israelites, Phoenicians. After all the ME/Near East is not a too big historical region.

Nabataeans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Semitic people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hamitic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afroasiatic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can compare it to the mutual affinity between for instance Pashtuns and Baluch. Or Persians and Lurs. Or Uzbeks and Turks. Or English and Scots. Or Portuguese and Spaniards. Or Indians and Bangladeshis. Or Indonesians and Filipinos, Malaysians etc. Or Han Chinese and Koreans. Or the people of Horn of Africa (Somalians and Eritreans). Or West Africans (Nigerians and Ghanians).

Can you feel me here?

In short Arabs of today are a mixture of INDIGENOUS people (not only as many non-natives settled in the Arab world and mixed with people throughout the ages, mostly neighboring peoples) to what is now the Arab world of mostly an Semitic/Hamitic stock which history, language, culture, modern-day genetics etc. confirm.

For instance many don't know this but even at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) many regions of Arabia, especially Southern Arabia (which in Arabic folklore is considered as the homeland of "Arabs" of especially the Qahtanite lineage)

Qahtanite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

did not even speak Arabic but other Semitic languages.

Especially Southern Arabian languages which despite the name are not actually Arabic languages or dialects. Some are still spoken today but endangered as few people speak them, unfortunately.

South Arabian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Same with Eastern Arabia and Northern Arabia.

In short Arabs are not a fully homogenous people (no people or human is that) but we all originate/and almost all of our ancestors are native to what is today the Arab world.

Arabs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In KSA for instance most people can trace their ancestry to nearby Yemen, Iraq, Sham (Levant), Egypt right across the Red Sea etc. 10% are Afro-Arabs and another 10% have non-Arab ancestry (Turkish, Caucasian, South Asian, Indonesian, Central Asian, Iranian peoples (mainly Lur and Persian) etc.). Many people don't know this but especially Hijaz (my ancestral region) is one of the most mixed areas of the Muslim world due to Hajj and Umrah. For most pilgrims back then it was a one in a lifetime experience so many ended up staying but today 99% of them are considered Saudi Arabians and many might not even know about their foreign ancestry. Many settled due to trade as well.

I am fully aware of Pakistan's ancient history and know that most of the Indus civilization was based in what is today Pakistan and not India.

Yes, Europe after killing each other for centuries (just between WW1 and WW2 they killed 100 million of each other -as bad as we Muslims are today we will never even come close to such numbers), the Holocaust, Pogroms, religious wars etc. they have now put this unfortunate past behind them and are a now a shinning light in how to conduct themselves despite a very bloody history together and despite belonging to 100's of different ethnic groups, speaking very different languages and having different cultures. Nowadays archenemies such as France and UK, France and Germany etc. have very cordial and close ties and are even willing to fight for each other to the death in wars.

I really hope that one day Arabs and Persians (two neighbors) will leave their petty differences aside (our common history is not even 10% as bloody as that of many Europeans and others) for the sake of the region and its future.

What I most long for though in the case of the Arab world are better regimes, social and political reforms (I want to see the common man and woman have a much bigger say in their future and life's), less sectarianism and focus on progress. Something that I have seen good signs of in recent years, especially in the GCC, but unfortunately since the Arab "spring" the situation has gone downwards with the exception of Tunisia and Egypt which is slowly waking up. Also of course more cordial ties among Muslims and more mutually beneficial cooperation.

Cheers and sorry for the long reply.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

No need for any praise my friend. We are just exchanging opinions as civilized people rather than having silly discussions based on prejudice or petty misunderstandings. That's how it should be. Unfortunately neither the internet or "real life" is necessarily a guarantee of that sadly hence why humans are experts in creating divisions, engaging in wars and general misery. We just have to look at our past and present.

Without going too much into detail here then the ancient history of the Arab world (from the first human migrations until Islam) is quite complex and covers many layers. Be it the history of Arabia, Arabs as a people and their pre-Islamic ancestors (who range from ancient Akkadians, Amorites, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Himyarites and dozens upon dozens of ancient peoples etc.) who were/are mostly Semites.

In short the modern-day peoples of today in the ME (main ones that we hear about), meaning Arabs, Persians and Jews appeared in written historical records approximately 3000 years ago but before that time period those people "did not exist" as Arabs, Persians or Jews but were obviously formed by native peoples who inhabited the regions that they first appeared in. They were obviously also not fully homogenous and their ancestry was formed by many layers of different peoples mostly those found before those peoples in the lands that they appeared in.

In the case of Arabs (people speaking Arabic and identifying with Arab culture, having a degree of Arab ancestry etc.) ranging from Morocco to Oman ALL belonged to Semitic or Hamitic peoples and civilizations. Thus related peoples. The ancient Nabateans in Hijaz, Southern Jordan and Southern Syria and what is now Israel who gave rise to World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Petra in Jordan, Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Bosra in Syria and Asvat in Israel were Semites (some consider them ancient Arabs but their original language was not Arabic but another Semitic language despite originating in Hijaz, KSA) and thus related with nearby Semitic/Hamitic populations such as Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, Israelites, Phoenicians. After all the ME/Near East is not a too big historical region.

Nabataeans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Semitic people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hamitic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afroasiatic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can compare it to the mutual affinity between for instance Pashtuns and Baluch. Or Persians and Lurs. Or Uzbeks and Turks. Or English and Scots. Or Portuguese and Spaniards. Or Indians and Bangladeshis. Or Indonesians and Filipinos, Malaysians etc. Or Han Chinese and Koreans. Or the people of Horn of Africa (Somalians and Eritreans). Or West Africans (Nigerians and Ghanians).

Can you feel me here?

In short Arabs of today are a mixture of INDIGENOUS people (not only as many non-natives settled in the Arab world and mixed with people throughout the ages, mostly neighboring peoples) to what is now the Arab world of mostly an Semitic/Hamitic stock which history, language, culture, modern-day genetics etc. confirm.

For instance many don't know this but even at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) many regions of Arabia, especially Southern Arabia (which in Arabic folklore is considered as the homeland of "Arabs" of especially the Qahtanite lineage)

Qahtanite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

did not even speak Arabic but other Semitic languages.

Especially Southern Arabian languages. Some are still spoken today but endangered as few people speak them, unfortunately.

South Arabian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In short Arabs are not a fully homogenous people (no people or human is that) but we all originate/and almost all of our ancestors are native to what is today the Arab world.

Arabs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In KSA for instance most people can trace their ancestry to nearby Yemen, Iraq, Sham (Levant), Egypt right across the Red Sea etc. 10% are Afro-Arabs and another 10% have non-Arab ancestry (Turkish, Caucasian, South Asian, Indonesian, Central Asian, Iranian peoples (mainly Lur and Persian) etc.). Many people don't know this but especially Hijaz (my ancestral region) is one of the most mixed areas of the Muslim world due to Hajj and Umrah. For most pilgrims back then it was a one in a lifetime experience so many ended up staying but today 99% of them are considered Saudi Arabians and many might not even know about their foreign ancestry.

I am fully aware of Pakistan's ancient history and know that most of the Indus civilization was based in what is today Pakistan.

Yes, Europe after killing each other for centuries (just between WW1 and WW2 they killed 100 million of each other -as bad as we Muslims are today we will never even come close to such numbers), the Holocaust, Pogroms, religious wars etc. they have now put that past them and are a shinning light in how to conduct themselves despite a very bloody history together and despite belonging to 100's of different ethnic groups, speaking very different languages and having different cultures. Nowadays archenemies such as France and UK, France and Germany have very cordial and close ties and are willing to fight for each other.

I really hope that one day Arabs and Persian (two neighbors) will leave their petty differences aside (our common history is not even 10% as bloody as that of many Europeans and others) for the sake of the region and its future.

Cheers and sorry for the long reply.

What I most long for though in the case of the Arab world are better regimes, social and political reforms (I want to see the common man and woman have a much bigger say in their future and life's), less sectarianism and focus on progress. Something that I have seen good signs of in recent years, especially in the GCC, but unfortunately since the Arab "spring" the situation has gone downwards with the exclusion of Tunisia and Egypt which is slowly waking up. Also of course more cordial ties among Muslims and more mutually beneficial cooperation.

Credit where it is due. Yes, I have a interest in history so I do read quite a bit on this subject. Of course like I said I have broad understanding of the history of Arabs and the general region. I know more about the Persian history because they have had more impact on what is Pakistan now in historic times since days of the Archaemenid Empire.

Still what you posted was interesting. I think one valuable lesson one should take from history is to look at everything from afar. To look beyond the horizon and not get bogged or trapped in the present limitations.