A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[vsdoc]

Fazool thread.

Totally agree. Can and should be added on to and merged with the Bharat/India thread. At least there was some meeting of minds there.

Regarding the argument that only people who descend from the geographical boundaries can claim an heritage - tell that to a Parsi or Irani in Mumbai regarding who claims the Zoroastrian heritage of Iran.

Definitely not the thousand and one races and ethnicities who call themselves "Iranian" today.

Definitely not the Persian Iranians either who pray to Allah instead of Ahura Mazda.

Who then does that leave us with?

 

[INDIC]

That is difficult to say with certainty; the origins of those who call themselves Pathans today is wrapped in mystery. It is likely that today's Pathans are an amalgamation of more than one original ethnic group.

The Kamboja of epic times, that is, Kambojas mentioned from proto-historic times, were in two groups: the Kamboja proper, and the Parama Kamboja.

I read that Kamboja of East Afghanistan were Iranian people who followed Hinduism. Many people claim that Alexander had encounter with Pathans when he invaded the subcontinent. Were those people he referred Kamboja.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Phoenix, neither Egypt nor Greece were formed in the name of religion. Pakistan is only among two countries in the world that have been formed on the basis of religion. That is a crucial difference between Pakistan & Egypt/Greece.

Pakistan was formed on the basis of religion, but we do have a claim to our ancestors & their accomplishments. If you are referring to Israel then note that the Jews are an ethnic group as well because Judaism does not encourage people to convert. Of course it's true that not all Jews are from the lineage of Jacob.

Regarding the argument that only people who descend from the geographical boundaries can claim an heritage - tell that to a Parsi or Irani in Mumbai regarding who claims the Zoroastrian heritage of Iran.

I think you misunderstood me, regardless of where a person lives, if an individual descends from the geographical boundaries of another civilization then he or she is free to claim it as their heritage.

As long as a Parsi or Iranian in Mumbai has Iranian ancestors then he or she may claim it as their heritage.

There isint no proper translation of religon in the sanskrit or say hindi language. Hinduism is just a term coined. you dont have to follow god to be a hindu. Just do your *** job thinking that karma is a ****** and u r a hindu

So I was correct that Hinduism is a collection of beliefs from all over India? By the way what do the words in asterisks refer to, as in this "***" or this "******"? Are you saying that a person should do their "own" job & think that karma is a "bi(a)tch" lol?

Anyway, I can't further the discussion at the moment. I am very busy today & may reply later if I get the time to that is.

 

[Developereo]

I don't mean to be flippant, but I am having trouble accepting the notion of IVC as being a requirement for anyone's identity, India or Pakistan. What do we tell immigrants? That they are forever second-class citizens because their "history" can never include the IVC? What does genetics or race have to do with national identity? Again, I refer to the concept of immigrants.

The simple answer is to look at countries like the US, Canada, Australia, etc. The national identity in these countries is defined by people who share a passport, possibly birth land, and a desire to work towards a common goal of furthering the interests of that country. That's good enough for these countries and works plenty fine.

 

[angeldust]

I don't mean to be flippant, but I am having trouble accepting the notion of IVC as being a requirement for anyone's identity, India or Pakistan. What do we tell immigrants? That they are forever second-class citizens because their "history" can never include the IVC? What does genetics or race have to do with national identity? Again, I refer to the concept of immigrants.

The simple answer is to look at countries like the US, Canada, Australia, etc. The national identity in these countries is defined by people who share a passport, possibly birth land, and a desire to work towards a common goal of furthering the interests of that country. That's good enough for these countries and works plenty fine.

Totally agree with you. Nationality is a modern concept and as such has nothing to do with your race or religion. The history of nations and how they came to be on the other hand is not as simple or black and white. And sometimes the boundaries between politics and religion and region and language get blurred or coalesce.

 

[Bhairava]

Pakistan was formed on the basis of religion, but we do have a claim to our ancestors & their accomplishments.

That is the moot point here. How can a nation that was formed expressly rejecting the notion of co-existance and formed with Islam as its sole identity can now claim something which is explicitly non-Islamic ?

Anyway as I said, lets agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[vsdoc]

That is the moot point here. How can a nation that was formed expressly rejecting the notion of co-existance and formed with Islam as its sole identity can now claim something which is explicitly non-Islamic ?

Anyway as I said, lets agree to disagree. Peace.

We found the solution in the Bharat thread.

1) Change India's name to Bharat so that India and Indian becomes free for Pakistanis culturally without the Hindu baggage.

2) Change everything Indian to South Asian

 

[Srinivas]

"It" didn't decide to merge with India, the hindu tyrant did. If all the kashmiri people had decided that then the Pakistani flag wouldn't be raised in IOK, and the Pakistani Kashmiris on this forum would have had different opinions


Lol, it's a fact that facial features depicted on the paintings/statues are precisely the same as modern day balochs and sindhis

If People of Kashmir supported Pakistan then how come pakistani soldiers have not got any support from Kashmiri people when they tried to occupy it.

 

[divya]

Pakistan was formed on the basis of religion, but we do have a claim to our ancestors & their accomplishments. If you are referring to Israel then note that the Jews are an ethnic group as well because Judaism does not encourage people to convert. Of course it's true that not all Jews are from the lineage of Jacob.



I think you misunderstood me, regardless of where a person lives, if an individual descends from the geographical boundaries of another civilization then he or she is free to claim it as their heritage.

As long as a Parsi or Iranian in Mumbai has Iranian ancestors then he or she may claim it as their heritage.



So I was correct that Hinduism is a collection of beliefs from all over India? By the way what do the words in asterisks refer to, as in this "***" or this "******"? Are you saying that a person should do their "own" job & think that karma is a "bi(a)tch" lol?

Anyway, I can't further the discussion at the moment. I am very busy today & may reply later if I get the time to that is.

Down the line it is like linux with diffrent versions with a common kernel. It has a basic belief with local legends and beliefs added to it.

And i certainly didnt meant "Own" Job...

 

[Srinivas]

Many Kings wanted independence, but India force all of them to chose India. Pakistan does not have a problem with that. Pakistan did not interfere with India on this either.
So why did India interfere with us? Pakistan was perfectly within its right to demand Kashmir to come to Pakistan since India was doing the same thing.

So once again, it was Indian greed that caused all this problem.

Pakistan formation by birth is anti india and they wanted to invade India. Have you forgotten the slogan "Has keliye pakistan Lad ke lenge Hindustan".

 

[vsdoc]

The only thing Pakistanis have a claim to is that their country now stands on the SOIL that formed a major portion of what was the IVC over 3000 years ago.

The majority are neither the true successors by BLOOD;

Nor are they the bearers of the FAITH.

That link in all likelihood lies with our people in the South.

Try as you might, you cannot peel India away from the IVC.

Both the modern nation as well as the ancient civilization.

 

[Bhairava]

We found the solution in the Bharat thread.

1) Change India's name to Bharat so that India and Indian becomes free for Pakistanis culturally without the Hindu baggage.

2) Change everything Indian to South Asian

Since those proposals runs the risk of being accepted by Pakistanis, I reject them...

 

[vsdoc]

Since those proposals runs the risk of being accepted by Pakistanis, I reject them...

I would still consider accepting them.

But I would like to cross examine the IVC'ers myself before agreeing to do so.

 

[Bhairava]

I would still consider accepting them.

But I would like to cross examine the IVC'ers myself before agreeing to do so.

My personal view is that the only indisputable fact is India's connection with IVC. Everything else is debatable/irrelevant. If Pakistanis want to share the heritage it is upto them and their confidence to manage their identities. but any revisionist attempt to isolate India from IVC must be resisted.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Down the line it is like linux with diffrent versions with a common kernel. It has a basic belief with local legends and beliefs added to it.

Yup, I understood your point.

And i certainly didnt meant "Own" Job...

Then what did you mean? I really didn't understand the word in the asterisks, clarify that.

I will reply to the remaining posts later.