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A Mughal goes to Pakistan to renew blood ties

In South Asia, after the advent of Islam, some high caste (Brahmins, Rajputs and Khatris) converted to Islam in the Punjab region and adopted this title. They are known as Punjabi Shaikh (Punjabi) پنجابی شيخ. Punjabi Shaikhs are mostly urban and non agriculturist but a few families also cultivate their own land in the western districts. Their main professions are business and public service. In Punjab, they stereotypically have a reputation for business acumen. The Khawaja Shaikh, with their sub-division the Chiniotis and the Qanungoh Shaikh are two such communities.
Before the independence of Pakistan in 1947, Khatris were living in all the districts of Punjab. Most of them were concentrated in the western districts. People from all classes; Khatris, Rajputs, Gujjars, Gakhars, etc; had converted to Islam. The Siddiqui Shaikhs and Quraishi Shaikhs are communities that are the descendeds from these converted classes. They are found in Punjab as Punjabi speaking Shaikhs and also found in Sindh as Sindhi speaking Shaikhs.


The Muslim Khatri (Urdu: کهتری ) are the Khatri converts to Islam. With the advent of Islam following invasions by Turkic tribes from Afghanistan and the North West Frontier Province from the 11th century onwards, there were conversions of Hindus to the faith from among various Punjabi communities, including Khatris.Generally they retained their tribal, clan or caste affiliations as has been the norm in the region. Similarly, the Khatris who converted to Islam, continue to retain a strong social identity and are known as Punjabi Shaikhs.
Pakistan continues to have a prominent community of Khatris known as Punjabi Shaikhs as well as Khawaja Shaikhs. Some Muslim Khatris like the Sahgal family, Aftab Ahmed Vohra, Najam Sethi,etc of Pakistan are examples of well-known and successful Muslim Khatris. They are also known as Khoja and Chiniotis.
In addition the Punjabi Saudagaran-e-Delhi community are also of Khatri ancestry. Historically, this community lived in Delhi, and other north Indian towns, but after the partition of India, they have all moved to Pakistan.In Pakistan also the Muslim Khatris are expanded to various occupations.

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Major Ikram Sehgal Famous Defence Analyst of Pakistan.
 
ok but understand that babur and akbar had allies.. they had strong armies.. and they had weak enemies... by end of aurangzeb.. it was totally opposite for mughals.. they had no real allies.. they had weak armies.. and they had strong enemies... there wasn't really anywhere else for mughals to go by then but down.. only person who could have saved a collapse was aurangzeb but he managed to piss everyone off.. fight a war with marathas for 27 years.. and totally bankrupt his empire.. aurangzeb's stupidity or over-confidence call it was probably the reason which caused fall of mughals.. after that point mughals really had nothing going for them..

Well Babur had no allies really, the man was quite literally a nomad always trying to get Samarkand. Eventually got Kabul and singlehandedly formed the Mughal Empire. Akber had allies yes, in the form of Rajputs. As for weak enemies the Delhi Sultunate wasnt exactly that weak especially when compared to just 12000 men of Babur at 1st battle of Panipat. A strong Mughal king could have changed the outcome after 3rd Battle of Panipat. All this is nevertheless speculation, whats done is done. No point in dwelling to much on it. Getting late here though, so im off to bed, night :wave:
 
She didn't move anywhere, Jinnah lived in Bombay. She married a Parsi - Neville Wadia & their son is Nusli Wadia. Dina Wadia now stays in NY though she has been petitioning the courts in India for handing back the house that Jinnah built(now worth about $60 million) to her. Her son & his sons run a large business empire including Bombay Dyeing, Britannia & Go air.

Pretty interesting, thanks. I had no idea Jinnahs great grand kids are Indians.. Kinda weird.
 
Aha so whilst the Sikhs were busy fighting the Afghans and the Marathas were still recovering from their loss what were the Mughals doing then? well Shah Alam got an army together and attempted to defeat the Brits at Buxar 3 years later. Obviously this failed but had the battle outcome been different things could have again as mentioned turned out very differently.

okk just to put things in perspective....

by the battle of Buxar...

Mughals + Oudh + Bengal = 40,000 soldiers

the Ahluwalia Sikh Misl which was responsible of raiding Afghan territory alone consisted of 30,000 soldiers and 6000 cavalry... Bhuma misl consisted of 20,000-30,000 soldiers and 10,000 cavalry.. there were 11 Sikh misls in total..

this is in addition to the Sikh Nihang force which consisted of thousands of cavalry.. dunno their number but basically these families from birth are only taught how to fight.. even to this day in modern times these families still only grow up studying how to fight war from the moment they are born..

this in addition to the Dal Khalsa cavalry force which consisted of about 70,000 cavalry..

The combined mughal force which fought the British at Buxar was puny compared to the other regional armies..
 
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Well Babur had no allies really, the man was quite literally a nomad always trying to get Samarkand. Eventually got Kabul and singlehandedly formed the Mughal Empire. Akber had allies yes, in the form of Rajputs. As for weak enemies the Delhi Sultunate wasnt exactly that weak especially when compared to just 12000 men of Babur at 1st battle of Panipat. A strong Mughal king could have changed the outcome after 3rd Battle of Panipat. All this is nevertheless speculation, whats done is done. No point in dwelling to much on it. Getting late here though, so im off to bed, night :wave:

Ofcourse Babur had allies.... Babur was a vassal of the Persian Safavids.. without their assistance he would literally have been a nobody.. they helped him financially as well as militarily..

and goodnight..
 
noo I didn't.. but i'm Punjabi and I know Punjab's history very well... Punjab is hundreds of years old.. pakistan is only 60 years old.. anyways... I only talked about people from Lahore.. that have lived there.. they will tell you what chooras and chamaars are.. because seems like you've also never stepped foot in Punjab...

You dont know anything about me. I have a house in Pakistan's Punjab province, I have land in Pakistan's Punjab province that also belongs to my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc..

You got nothing in Pakistan's Punjab province.

I know more about my Pakistan Punjab and my Pakistani Punjabi people than an indian punjabi who has never been to Pakistan and is just making comments about my people thinking he's some kind of expert.

Do us Pakistani Punjabis a favor and stop being obsessed about us, rather you should work hard in making your Khalistan and freeing your side of punjab from hindus as well as the parts of punjab land hindus took from you sikhs.
 
Do us Pakistani Punjabis a favor and stop being obsessed about us, rather you should work hard in making your Khalistan and freeing your side of punjab from hindus as well as the parts of punjab land hindus took from you sikhs.

You have to be kidding me. I am tired of Pakistanis putting a magnifying glass on India's minorites(My families back ground is that of a minorite from India also). Its Hindus Hindus Hindus Hindus :blah:

Go tell these people of your idea

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Go to the India army pictures thread some time and see how many fight for the country, ok?
 
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You dont know anything about me. I have a house in Pakistan's Punjab province, I have land in Pakistan's Punjab province that also belongs to my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc..

oo yea?? what zilla? what tehsil? what pind? so you're zameendars? cuz i think ure just all talk... tenu punjabi takk tah bolni aundi nii... vadda aya zameendar..

You got nothing in Pakistan's Punjab province.

I know more about my Pakistan Punjab and my Pakistani Punjabi people than an indian punjabi who has never been to Pakistan and is just making comments about my people thinking he's some kind of expert.

yeaaa i can see that.. just more words.. no substance..

Do us Pakistani Punjabis a favor and stop being obsessed about us, rather you should work hard in making your Khalistan and freeing your side of punjab from hindus as well as the parts of punjab land hindus took from you sikhs.

yaa don't worry... the first flag of khalistan i will personally flutter over your pindh.. :lol: :lol: if you have one that is...
 
Why dont you go back to your RSS shakha?

Looks like your *** is on fire instead of **** RSS:rofl: where the heck that came from, looks like you are on of those NDTV morons who don't know true facts and bark like a street dog. Dogs like u are beaten in every street of India, you know what i mean, if you have brain.
 
You dont know anything about me. I have a house in Pakistan's Punjab province, I have land in Pakistan's Punjab province that also belongs to my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc..

You got nothing in Pakistan's Punjab province.

I know more about my Pakistan Punjab and my Pakistani Punjabi people than an indian punjabi who has never been to Pakistan and is just making comments about my people thinking he's some kind of expert.

Do us Pakistani Punjabis a favor and stop being obsessed about us, rather you should work hard in making your Khalistan and freeing your side of punjab from hindus as well as the parts of punjab land hindus took from you sikhs.


How about they get some pakistani punjab first then indian punjab

just my 2 cents first

looks like we will have to call the Brits again and do the partition again,, if we have people like you:argh:
 
Looks like your *** is on fire instead of **** RSS:rofl: where the heck that came from, looks like you are on of those NDTV morons who don't know true facts and bark like a street dog. Dogs like u are beaten in every street of India, you know what i mean, if you have brain.

I will beat you with your RSS stick and you'll be running without your khaki shots. Now go and read some Indian history.
 
okk just to put things in perspective....

by the battle of Buxar...

Mughals + Oudh + Bengal = 40,000 soldiers

the Ahluwalia Sikh Misl which was responsible of raiding Afghan territory alone consisted of 30,000 soldiers and 6000 cavalry... Bhuma misl consisted of 20,000-30,000 soldiers and 10,000 cavalry.. there were 11 Sikh misls in total..

this is in addition to the Sikh Nihang force which consisted of thousands of cavalry.. dunno their number but basically these families from birth are only taught how to fight.. even to this day in modern times these families still only grow up studying how to fight war from the moment they are born..

this in addition to the Dal Khalsa cavalry force which consisted of about 70,000 cavalry..

The combined mughal force which fought the British at Buxar was puny compared to the other regional armies..

A little correction there, veer. Not all the Misls were of the same size and strength. Their numbers depended on the territory they controlled. The ones you have mentioned could have been the biggest but surely there were others that were smaller.
 
I will beat you with your RSS stick and you'll be running without your khaki shots. Now go and read some Indian history.
looks like you are too obsessed with RSS, let me tell u dude I havent even seen RSS except i hear it from morons like yours and while ur constant RSS ranting is giving me the sense of which dirty bloodline u come from, so keep that stick with u, cuz u might need it for your own safety.
 
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