A Meeting on Christmas Night Dacca, 25 Dec 1962

[Homo Sapiens]

Thats why this party was a joke until Allama Iqbal presented 2 nation theory and Jinnah become leader.

No my dear, nobody knew or given any attention to Allama Iqbal's theory until Lahore resolution was accepted as the main focal point of Muslim league.And for Lahore resolution, it was the hard realities of the socio-economic condition of muslims specially Bengali muslims and future uncertainty of muslim position in congress ruled India which driven the Muslim league to seek for a separate state.Not for some idealized romanticism.When Muslim league leadership searched for a name for their proposed country, they discovered obscure thesis of Chowdhury Rehmat Ali as well as Iqbal's poem came into limelight.

Mulsim league remain a small force until it formed a coalition govt. in Bengal with A.K Fazul Haque's party and came to power in Bengal in 1937.They got chance to form govt. in Bengal because they gained significant support in Bengal in 1930s and became the 2nd largest political party after Congress by seat count in 1937 Bengal legislative election.Later in 1939, A.K Fazlul Haque, then the Chief Minister of Bengal joined Muslim league by abolishing his own Krishak-proja party(3rd largest) and made Muslim league the biggest political force in Bengal which was the the biggest and politically most influential province of British India then. Later same Fazlul Haque moved the Lahore resolution in 1940 as the only Muslim League chief minister.So from the beginning, Muslim league as a party was borned, nurtured, matured and become a force to reckon with the help of Bengali muslim's mass mobilization.Even a Punjabi, Liaquat Ali Khan had to take candidacy from Bengal to win a seat.Without A.K Fazlul Haque, HS Suhrawardy, Khwaza Nazimuddin and the mass mobilization of Bengali muslim for the Pakistan cause, it was impossible for Jinnah of what he became eventually.I am not downgrading Jinnah, he was a very capable leader, but without mass support and capable co-workers, politically capable leader can't proceed much.Jinnah was very much frustrated for the lack of support for Muslim League in Punjab, which he considered the nucleus for the western Pakistan.He has several speech deploring this lack of Punjabi support.Do you think, he could have succeeded if he had no support in Bengal either? Thankfully he got his much coveted Punjabi muslim support in 1947 just before the partition.And Pashtun turned Muslim Leaguer after Pakistan was borned.

 

[rohailmalhi]

No my dear, nobody knew or given any attention to Allama Iqbal's theory until Lahore resolution was accepted as the main focal point of Muslim league.And for Lahore resolution, it was the hard realities of the socio-economic condition of muslims specially Bengali muslims and future uncertainty of muslim position in congress ruled India which driven the Muslim league to seek for a separate state.Not for some idealized romanticism.When Muslim league leadership searched for a name for their proposed country, they discovered obscure thesis of Chowdhury Rehmat Ali as well as Iqbal's poem came into limelight.

Mulsim league remain a small force until it formed a coalition govt. in Bengal with A.K Fazul Haque's party and came to power in Bengal in 1937.They got chance to form govt. in Bengal because they gain significant support in Bengal in 1930s and became the 2nd largest political party after Congress by seat count in 1937 Bengal legislative election.Later in 1939, A.K Fazlul Haque, then the Chief Minister of Bengal joined Muslim league by abolishing his own Krishak-proja party(3rd largest) and made Muslim league the biggest political force of Bengal which was the the biggest and politically most influential province of British India then. Later same Fazlul Haque moved the Lahore resolution in 1940 as the only Muslim League chief minister.So from the beginning, Muslim league as a party were borned, nurtured, matured and become a force to reckon with the help of Bengali muslim's mass mobilization for that party.Even a Punjabi, Liaquat Ali Khan had to take candidacy from Bengal to win a seat.Without A.K Fazlul Haque, HS Suhrawardy, Khwaza Nazimuddin and the mass mobilization of Bengali muslim for the Pakistan cause, it was impossible for Jinnah of what he became eventually.I am not downgrading Jinnah, he was a very capable leader, but without mass support and capable co-workers, politically capable leader can't proceed much.Jinnah was very much frustrated for the lack of support for Muslim League in Punjab, which he considered the nucleus for the western Pakistan.He has several speech deploring this lack of Punjabi support.Do you think, he could have succeeded if he had no support in Bengal either? Thankfully he got his much coveted Punjabi muslim support in 1947 just before the partition.And Pashtun turned Muslim Leaguer after Pakistan was borned.

Everyone played the role in the getting independence from India, there is no question about it.
Even though I refrain from going in to past by I failed to understand one thing , Why did Mr. Mujib did treason against Pakistan, by working with its enemy to break this nation. He might have not been given to the chance to create govt in Pakistan even after wining majority, but does it mean that you conspire with enemy of your country to break it a part.
He might be father of your nation , but he was a traitor to the Pakistan and it people and he will remain one.

 

[Max]

No

Does it change the fact that Muslim league was nothing before Jinnah?

 

[Mage]

Everyone played the role in the getting independence from India, there is no question about it.
Even though I refrain from going in to past by I failed to understand one thing , Why did Mr. Mujib did treason against Pakistan, by working with its enemy to break this nation. He might have not been given to the chance to create govt in Pakistan even after wining majority, but does it mean that you conspire with enemy of your country to break it a part.
He might be father of your nation , but he was a traitor to the Pakistan and it people and he will remain one.

Once operation searchlight was conducted we had no other choice. Actually Mujib did not declare independence. It was a then major of Pakistan Army. Even when Mujib was in West Pakistan jail no Pakistani leadership went to him to solve things. If you started the killing first then can you blame them for fighting back any means necessary?

 

[Max]

Once operation searchlight was conducted we had no other choice. Actually Mujib did not declare independence. It was a then major of Pakistan Army. Even when Mujib was in West Pakistan jail no Pakistani leadership went to him to solve things. If you started the killing first then can you blame them for fighting back any means necessary?

Mujeeb was traitor and he was doing treachery much before op searchlight,

2nd elite of west Pakistan also wanted to get rid of bengalis bcoz of geographical and cultural difference and agitation on almost every issue (in early 60's). so nobody have love lost for each other. hence west Pakistani elite never deployed enough forces to deal with insurgency..

 

[Doctor Strange]

Everyone played the role in the getting independence from India, there is no question about it.
Even though I refrain from going in to past by I failed to understand one thing , Why did Mr. Mujib did treason against Pakistan, by working with its enemy to break this nation. He might have not been given to the chance to create govt in Pakistan even after wining majority, but does it mean that you conspire with enemy of your country to break it a part.
He might be father of your nation , but he was a traitor to the Pakistan and it people and he will remain one.

No treason or independence proclamation was done by him. But he had knowledge about separatist movement. He was surrounded by such strong groups. He would die in the hand of Pak Army, if he uttered those words or he would do political suicide defying those rebellious movements in his party. He was stuck between the two. Pakistan establishment also had knowledge about this. So they were in dilemma to hand over power to him. Note even India had knowledge about this even before March as the restricted Pak troop movement by hijacking plane drama. But the mistake Pak Army made was by directly attacking, the strongholds from where the movement could fuel. Sheikh Mujib had no clue about these and he was in shock when he heard Indian Army took over East Pakistan. Repented and sweared to take revenge on West Bengalis. Meantime many of the small fractions took over political apparatus of Bangladesh. They had their own way to lay claim over it. He and AL lost influence like before and they had no power to reverse anything. And they would claim everything in support of separation of BD and the father title. Anyway in this period we have no relevance of those days, but we can learn from histories as misconception prevalent in both the countries.

 

[rohailmalhi]

Once operation searchlight was conducted we had no other choice. Actually Mujib did not declare independence. It was a then major of Pakistan Army. Even when Mujib was in West Pakistan jail no Pakistani leadership went to him to solve things. If you started the killing first then can you blame them for fighting back any means necessary?

I know Yahya & Bhutto were responsible for this as well but no matter what he asked Indian for help , he worked with indians to break the country in to two parts.
If he were a true leader , he would have kept people together, instead he pitched the idea of independence using India's help .

 

[Joe Shearer]

@bluesky
@Mage
@BDforever
@Homo Sapiens
@The Good

I think @saiyan0321 has written a heartfelt piece as a Pakistani patriot; he deserves an honest answer, without personal rancour, respecting his courage in spelling out with clarity and from his/their point of view what had happened in those sad days. We should reply him, and others, on their arguments, and respect them as individuals, and hope to retain their respect as individuals.

I am not a Bangladeshi nor a Pakistani; I would like to be part of the discussion if neither side objects, but am willing to step back if there is any objection. My issues are with the general statecraft and policy of the Pakistani deep state, and not with other issues, unless particularly invited to share my point of view on those.

Can we go forward without losing our passion but also without personal animosity?

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Everyone played the role in the getting independence from India, there is no question about it.
Even though I refrain from going in to past by I failed to understand one thing , Why did Mr. Mujib did treason against Pakistan, by working with its enemy to break this nation. He might have not been given to the chance to create govt in Pakistan even after wining majority, but does it mean that you conspire with enemy of your country to break it a part.
He might be father of your nation , but he was a traitor to the Pakistan and it people and he will remain one.

In 1940s, Mujib was an ardent student leader of Muslim league, close to HS Suhrawardy. In 1946, Mujib organized a bicycle road show from Calcutta to Delhi(1000 miles) to shore up public support for Pakistan.You may know it, he was minister of industry when HS Suhrawardy was PM of Pakistan in 1956 and he lead a Pakistani industrial delegation in China during that time.Have you ever asked yourself a question, why this patriotic political leader who struggled to create the country and served as a minister gradually lost confidence to the very country he was part of making and forced to take a different path ? Does he needed to take any lesson of patriotism from Bhutto, Yahia or Tikka khan or all those generals who were nowhere to be seen during the formative years of Pakistan and later became the master of fate of the country by seizing the opportunity?

 

[saiyan0321]

Can we go forward without losing our passion but also without personal animosity?

Agreed. As for your point of view. It would be great and you know that I have always respected your opinion and I would on this matter as well.

Its impossible Joe. The topic is just too sensitive. For example we have Pakistanis calling All India Muslim league a tanga party which is absolutely absurd whereas we have Bangladeshis claiming that all India Muslim league was entirely Bengali and found little to no strength is all absurd.

Quite Franky people have missed the vision of those leaders. Anyway.

Three things in life is great for an uplift Joe.

1. An interesting book.
2. A video game that pulls you in.
3. Cooking.

 

[Doctor Strange]

@bluesky
@Mage
@BDforever
@Homo Sapiens
@The Good

I think @saiyan0321 has written a heartfelt piece as a Pakistani patriot; he deserves an honest answer, without personal rancour, respecting his courage in spelling out with clarity and from his/their point of view what had happened in those sad days. We should reply him, and others, on their arguments, and respect them as individuals, and hope to retain their respect as individuals.

I am not a Bangladeshi nor a Pakistani; I would like to be part of the discussion if neither side objects, but am willing to step back if there is any objection. My issues are with the general statecraft and policy of the Pakistani deep state, and not with other issues, unless particularly invited to share my point of view on those.

Can we go forward without losing our passion but also without personal animosity?

What he said makes sense. Some Bangladeshis unnecessarily start dragging Pakistan that too in Pak site. Without much knowledge about Pakistan's present or past history. The people irritates me hovering around 25 years of that period, that too with factual self serving history. For a 46 years old country that is immature. Should rather take on big shot like India and British.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Agreed. As for your point of view. It would be great and you know that I have always respected your opinion and I would on this matter as well.

Its impossible Joe. The topic is just too sensitive. For example we have Pakistanis calling All India Muslim league a tanga party which is absolutely absurd whereas we have Bangladeshis claiming that all India Muslim league was entirely Bengali and found little to no strength is all absurd.

Quite Franky people have missed the vision of those leaders. Anyway.

Three things in life is great for an uplift Joe.

1. An interesting book.
2. A video game that pulls you in.
3. Cooking.

Yes, I know that the topic is sensitive, but the mutual ill-will needs to be healed, and talking about it is one way of doing it. If there was some way I could help the two sides to see the other point of view, without losing the integrity of their own, I would; however, I have my own points of discomfort, and therefore it is best if I don't introduce those and confine myself to helping both sides hear each other. I really think this ought to be allowed to heal.

I will be cooking in an hour; haven't decided the menu yet. Have carrots, beetroots, beans, aubergines, tomatoes, potatoes and onions, also some cottage cheese and eggs. There is a large packet of pasta.

What he said makes sense. Some Bangladeshis unnecessarily start dragging Pakistan that too in Pak site. Without much knowledge about Pakistan's present or past history. The people irritates me hovering around 25 years of that period, that too with factual self serving history. For a 46 years old country that is immature. Should rather take on big shot like India and British.

Yes, well, these need to be sorted out, the bones given decent burial, the funeral ceremonies completed, and we must all return to life. On the other hand, keeping stuck in the past is not helpful. We need to do a balance between the two positions.

@Kuru

You know we aren't friends (politically), but I appreciated your open-minded position. I think we need that more than anything else.

 

[saiyan0321]

will be cooking in an hour; haven't decided the menu yet. Have carrots, beetroots, beans, aubergines, tomatoes, potatoes and onions, also some cottage cheese and eggs. There is a large packet of pasta.

Sounds positively delightful. Do tell what you have made.

I am right now working on naan, steamed breast chicken and dry mixed vegetables and gajraila for desert.

In life there are only a few happiness and great food is one of them.

If you say so Joe and I admire your effort. Quite frankly when issues become political slogans then the chasms only widen. We have seen it before and we will see it again here.

 

[rohailmalhi]

In 1940s, Mujib was an ardent student leader of Muslim league, close to HS Suhrawardy. In 1946, Mujib organized a bicycle road show from Calcutta to Delhi(1000 miles) to shore up public support for Pakistan.You may know it, he was minister of industry when HS Suhrawardy was PM of Pakistan in 1956 and he lead a Pakistani industrial delegation in China during that time.Have you ever asked yourself a question, why this patriotic political leader who struggled to create the country and served as a minister gradually lost confidence to the very country he was part of making and forced to take a different path ? Does he needed to take any lesson of patriotism from Bhutto, Yahia or Tikka khan or all those generals who were nowhere to be seen during the formative years of Pakistan and later became the master of fate of the country by seizing the opportunity?

No body is justifying the acts of Bhutto, Yahya but they did not go to India for help. They didn't ask india to help them divide Pakistan in to two.
If he were a leader you portray him to be, he should have kept the nation united, even though he couldn't make Govt after having majority . It seems that was not the case then it was his own interest in front of interest of Pakistan, he wanted to govern at all cost, even if it by breaking Pakistan in to two parts.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sounds positively delightful. Do tell what you have made.

I am right now working on naan, steamed breast chicken and dry mixed vegetables and gajraila for desert.

In life there are only a few happiness and great food is one of them.

If you say so Joe and I admire your effort. Quite frankly when issues become political slogans then the chasms only widen. We have seen it before and we will see it again here.

I think we need a narrowing of differences, and I think the process starts with making a clean breast of things, emptying out one's most heartfelt feelings, and all that sort of thing.

Let's keep the slogans out, good people. And let's be able to take a strange word or two without falling off the hobby horse.