A curious question!

[Armstrong]

This again , why does it always have to be this or that with you guys?
Well since you're on a short fuse i won't push

God bless and Eid mubarik to you too wether you celebrate it tomorrow or day after tomorrow to keep a visible difference between you and Arabs !

I'm not on a short-fuse....I'm just a bit hurt that 'our opinion' or 'my opinion' doesn't even matter ? That its so worthless that it can be explained away with a snub such as 'its a personal thing' - Friends don't do that !

 

[Secur]

the rest of the months there is no specific gathering since people don't take them that seriously?

You aren't serious there, right? That isn't a sound argument even, of sighting the moon for ten months with the rest of us, because people don't take them seriously and since Ramadan and Eid have special importance, thats with the Arabs! You continue deflecting my questions about the tradition/culture which you held responsible for this.

 

[EyanKhan]

yaar to tum logon azadi bhi alag mana lya karo na is me kya kabahat he? tum log manalo ramzan 27th ke hisab se, KPK me mullahs q nahi bolte is tarha kerne ko popalzai mullah q nahi bolta halal q nahi kerta pakistani ki youm e azadi ko?, KPK fatwa q nahi deta, hum 14 august ko mana len ge

Please no dramabazi we have altaf bhai for that!

Let him be; hes already spoken - Its his personal thing borne out of customs or traditions & we don't get a say in it nor should we ought to be bothered by it !

So now its about me? You asked a question , why do the poeple of KPK celebrate it ? I answered it, ie its a custom nothing more nothing less , you were the one who saw it as a threat to Pakistaniyat i sought to clarify it!
I clearly said religion is a personal thing and people should do as they see fit? Or is it not? When did i say you have no right to question or ask? Why would i be answering your questions if i did see it that way?
Personally i don't give 2 hoots but people over here celebrate eid with their families in their and villages have their own traditions ! Its not easy arguing with the people in the village , if you want to go and educate them first and give them the sense to argue!

 

[OrionHunter]

No....I just don't like Indians butting in to conversations that they haven't the faintest clue about or are none of their concern !

Really? Did you know that there's a Moon that shines over India too? And there are Muslims in India too - 17% of the population? And Muslims in India celebrate Eid too?

Or is Ramzan and Eid only a Pakistani thing? Or do you own Islam?

 

[EyanKhan]

You aren't serious there, right? That isn't a sound argument even, of sighting the moon for ten months with the rest of us, because people don't take them seriously and since Ramadan and Eid have special importance, thats with the Arabs! You continue deflecting my questions about the tradition/culture which you held responsible for this.

Again you ignore the big part where I said not much importance is given to moon sighting for the rest of the month i.e people the laymen and even the mullahs don;t give 2 hoots but eid/ramadan moon sighting is like a tradition for them it completely independent of the Arabs but then you are so convinced it has something to do with that then why even argue? Why open this thread?
Now will you answer my queston?

 

[ghilzai]

I'm not on a short-fuse....I'm just a bit hurt that 'our opinion' or 'my opinion' doesn't even matter ? That its so worthless that it can be explained away with a snub such as 'its a personal thing' - Friends don't do that !

Relax yar, it's our tradition we have always followed it, there are no restrictions on when to celebrate.

If you are not happy then why not celebrate on the day we do and all will be doing it together.

Recently everyone is trying their best to target us from different day eid celebration to this and that.

Celebrate when you want we don't object or criticize so why are you guys so critical?.

 

[Armstrong]

Really? Did you know that there's a Moon that shines over India too? And there are Muslims in India too - 17% of the population? And Muslims in India celebrate Eid too?

Or is Ramzan and Eid only a Pakistani thing? Or do you own Islam?

If a Muslim from India talks about an internal affair of Pakistan - what one province does vs the rest of the country - I'd tell him to buzz off as well !

So now its about me? You asked a question , why do the poeple of KPK celebrate it ? I answered it, ie its a custom nothing more nothing less , you were the one who saw it as a threat to Pakistaniyat i sought to clarify it!
I clearly said religion is a personal thing and people should do as they see fit? Or is it not? When did i say you have no right to question or ask? Why would i be answering your questions if i did see it that way?
Personally i don't give 2 hoots but people over here celebrate eid with their families in their and villages have their own traditions ! Its not easy arguing with the people in the village , if you want to go and educate them first and give them the sense to argue!

Achaaa bhaii forget about this !

What did you eat for Eid today ?

 

[Chak Bamu]

The crescent moon is one of the most beautiful celestial sights created by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

There are at least five different perspectives:

1. Local - You sight crescent moon, you declare Eid (or beginning of any lunar month), else complete 30 days. This is how it was for many centuries, before means of near-instant communication.

2. National - Moon sighting is done on the national level. If Moon is sighted anywhere in a nation, Eid is declared. If moon is sighted in Gwadar, people of Lahore, Islamabad, Karachi, AJK, all celebrate Eid. This interpretation is based on Nation-state model and is rather recent.

3. Regional - Moon sighting in a region (comprising of more than one country) gets Eid declared. This happens in North America and is followed by some people.

4. Saudi - If moon is sighted in Saudi Arabis, wallha 7abibi, it is 3id. Many people around the world, including Afghanistan just sign off their responsibility to Saudis, who seem to know what they are doing, even when they really do not have a clue like the rest of us.

5. Scientific - Everyone knows how and when moon will be sighted and what parameters are to be put in the calculations. Just print a calendar and be done with it. Turkey (I am told) follows this model.

Masjid Qasim Khan people are following #1 & #4 and are not willing to quit their 2 minutes of fame every year. It makes them important in a very negative way to the rest of the nation.

There is a joke. People name one of their kid "Chand". When asked if they have seen 'Chand', they say that they have seen "Chand" today. Simple.

There is another perspective that I have not included in the list above: The Global perspective. Whenever Moon is supposed to be sighted anywhere, that should be the first day of Lunar calendar the world over. To me this is the simplest and most logical, and also with support from Hadith as far as I know TBH. But that would be too much to ask.

The circus that goes on in Masjid Qasim Khan is getting more and more elaborate as time passes, just because they crave authentication. I've heard that they have begun transporting would-be Moon-sighters to Masjid Qasim Khan and interview them there.

I am all for #2 for now, since we have a valid and institutional mechanism via Rooiat-e-Halal committee. Even if they may be mistaken, they take enough care that I trust them.

My guess is that, if one were to take an empty glass and go around asking people if it was full of water, some people out of millions might actually say that "Yes the glass is full of water". There you have it.

 

[Secur]

Again you ignore the big part where I said not much importance is given to moon sighting for the rest of the month i.e people the laymen and even the mullahs don;t give 2 hoots but eid/ramadan moon sighting is like a tradition for them it completely independent of the Arabs but then you are so convinced it has something to do with that then why even argue? Why open this thread?
Now will you answer my queston?

I elaborated on that importance, you again didn't bother actually answering the original question. Why is it then synced with Saudi Arabia, since every year you begin the Ramadan with Arabs and celebrate the Eid with them? Meaning regardless of the moon actually being sighted in those areas, which would be according to the tradition as per you, it is celebrated if there's Ramadan and Eid in Arabia. Give me any other explanation for this so called moon sighting if the moon's not there to sight in the first place and it isn't conditional to the moon sighting in KSA. If you didn't understand my question earlier. Here's the last detailed attempt at it.

Relax yar, it's our tradition we have always followed it, there are no restrictions on when to celebrate.

Can you explain me this tradition because I dont seem to get it? You celebrate even if the moon's not there since there's no restriction? @Chak Bamu Me getting confused with the tradition/culture!

 

[Chak Bamu]

Why is it then synced with Saudi Arabia, every year you begin the Ramadan with Arabs and celebrate the Eid with them? Meaning regardless of the moon actually being sighted in those areas, which would be according to the tradition as per you, it is celebrated if there's Ramadan and Eid in Arabia. Give me any other explanation for this so called moon sighting if the moon's not there to sight in the first place if it isn't conditional to the moon sighting in KSA. If you didn't understand my question earlier. Here's the last detailed attempt at it.


Can you explain me this tradition because I dont seem to get it? You celebrate even if the moon's not there since there's no restriction? @Chak Bamu Me getting confused with the tradition/culture!

1. Yaar leave him alone. He has explained the best he can. He should not be put in a position to answer for millions of our countrymen.

2. Tradition, culture, & religion are all inter-twined. They could just say that this is how we are going to do it. But law of the land does not quite allow them to do so. That is why they feel obliged to create an elaborate ceremony to justify it. Though this thing irks me as well, I do realize that we should just take a chill-pill and not make too much of it.

 

[Secur]

Yaar leave him alone. He has explained the best he can. He should not be put in a position to answer for millions of our countrymen.

His explanation isn't making any sense because the thing to be seen, doesn't exist back then to be seen. Its impossible! To be honest, he's the one who's even trying to explain me something, there's no one I can find who is willing to answer these questions.

 

[Chak Bamu]

His explanation isn't making any sense because the thing to be seen, doesn't exist back then to be seen. Its impossible! To be honest, he's the one who's even trying to explain me something, there's no one I can find who is willing to answer these questions.

How about this:

Some people lie, and some Mullahs encourage them and sanctify their actions. Public willingly goes along with this pantomime in tradition's name.

If someone were to create a database of the would-be-moon-watchers who apparently lie, to find out their back-ground, etc... One could come up with some conclusion. But certain sections of our society would still go on the way they have gone on.

Really no need to make too much of this. As time passes, these Masjid Qasim Khan people will continue to loose support little by little. Making this a great issue will not help.

Just take a chill-pill. It is not a national emergency.

 

[Secur]

It is not a national emergency.

Nah, just an issue.

Some people lie, and some Mullahs encourage them and sanctify their actions. Public willingly goes along with this pantomime in tradition's name.

No such thing as unwritten code in certain groups of people working parallel to make sure that we are Arabs more than the Arabs? It makes sense with what you wrote there, because without the public willingly accepting it and acting naive on purpose or turning a blind eye altogether, it isn't possible .

 

[Chak Bamu]

Nah, just an issue.



No such thing as unwritten code in certain groups of people working parallel to make sure that we are Arabs more than the Arabs? It makes sense with what you wrote there, because without the public willingly accepting it and acting naive on purpose or turning a blind eye altogether, it isn't possible .

It is NOT an Arab-wannabe thing. You are looking at it the wrong way. A lot that happens because of natural social trends gets packaged into 'Arab-Wannabe' corner. In this case it is more a sub-national issue perhaps more to do with Afghanistan than anything else.

 

[Secur]

It is NOT an Arab-wannabe thing. You are looking at it the wrong way. A lot that happens because of natural social trends gets packaged into 'Arab-Wannabe' corner. In this case it is more a sub-national issue perhaps more to do with Afghanistan than anything else.

In its deepest sense, it is. I am trying to look in an objective way without worrying about the racist thing. Afghanistan follows Arabia, so indirect manner, but same thing done.