A 'Crash Landing': The Slow and Painful Death of India's Air Force

[INDIAISM]

After going through the entire article I came to a conclusion that Dude French are getting Desperate Now.

 

[Indian Patriot]

And JF-17 has all those capabilities??

Rafale, Typhoon, F-16 have these capabilities.

Btw all the points you have mentioned above except the AESA radars will be incorporated into LCA before getting FOC.

Not possible because of size and space constraints.

And the present radar is good enough, looking at the capabilities our neighbours have.

Present radar cannot guide BVR missiles.

And regarding Electronic Warfare Suit, read the article below.

EWS is obsolete just like the aircraft itself. India needs a foreign EW suite.

But then, why am I wasting my time replying to a person who is ashamed to use his own country's flag, but does not shy away in pointing fingers at others.

Spoken like a true retard.

Shameless, but expected from the people of the country where you come from.

Then why are you wasting your time logging into a forum created by people of the country you find so shameless? Why don't you stop posting here? You won't because you are a natural hypocrite.

250+ 4th gens and 100+ Tejas

Tejas is obsolete.

And which 250 4+ gen are you talking about?

 

[HariPrasad]

A 'Crash Landing': The Slow and Painful Death of India's Air Force

Dave Majumdar
October 22, 2015

inShare28

The Obama Administration is gearing up to sell eight new Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon jets to Pakistan, the New York Times reports. Those jets will add to Pakistan’s fleet of seventy-six existing “Vipers” as the type is colloquially known. Meanwhile, its arch-nemesis India’s air force shrinks by the day as planes age out and squadron are disbanded.

Assuming Pakistan completes the sale, the eight F-16s would help boost that country’s fleet of eighteen existing advanced Block 52+ Vipers. The rest of the Pakistani F-16 fleet consists of modified A-model jets that have been upgraded to Block 15 MLU standard, which bring those aircraft nearly up to the same capability as the newest Block 52+ jets.

Pakistan is also buying more than 150 Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu JF-17 Thunder fighters. According to Flight International’s World Air Forces Directory 2015—Pakistan currently has forty-nine of the aircraft in service with 100 more on order. The JF-17 ultimately originates as an extensive redesign of the Chendu F7, which was originally a license-built MiG-21 derivative. Powered by a Russian-made Klimov RD-93—which is a version of the MiG-29’s engine—the JF-17 provides decent capability at low prices. It is likely that the JF-17 will replace Pakistan’s geriatric fleet of Chengdu F-7s, Mirage IIIs and Mirage Vs.

The rest of Pakistan’s fleet is composed of 140 Chinese-made F-7P and F-7PG fighters, which are a Chinese copy of the Mikoyan MiG-21. The aircraft have been upgraded with Italian-built Grifo-Mk-II radars, but are now obsolete. There are also roughly 157 French-built Dassault Mirage IIIs and Mirage Vs in service with the Pakistani air force. But while the F-7 will eventually be replaced by the JF-17, it’s not clear what Pakistan’s intentions are to replace the Mirage fighters.

The bottom line for Pakistan is that while its air force can’t compete with the Indian air force in terms of numbers, it is upgrading its forces and potentially even growing. Meanwhile, India’s air force is shrinking.

The overall balance of power in South Asia rests with India—but that nation is increasingly being challenged by an ever more powerful China, even if Pakistan is not quite the threat it once was. But the Indian military—particularly its air force is suffering due to that nation’s dysfunctional government, incompetent bureaucracy and intransigent negotiating tactics.

The Indian air force is required to muster a strength of forty-two combat aircraft squadrons, however, due to decades of negligence it can barely manage to operate thirty-five units. That number could further shrink and hit a low of twenty-five squadrons if nothing is done to staunch the bleeding.

Part of the problem is a lack of trained pilots, but mostly it’s India’s inability to select a new fighter and complete negotiations in a timely manner—or really at all. The prime example of Indian bureaucratic incompetence is the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, which started with an Indian air force requirement for 126 fighters in 2001. While the Dassault Rafale eventually “won” the competition in 2011—nearly ten years later—India managed to derail the negotiations with various unreasonable demands that neither the French government or Dassault would ever agree to. Ultimately, the MMRCA program was cancelled earlier this year.

India is currently negotiating to buy thirty-six Rafales directly from the French government; a deal is allegedly imminent by the end of the year. But given India’s track record—that’s dubious at best. But the Indian air force still needs at least 120 medium combat aircraft with similar capability to the Rafale. Indeed, the Indians still hope to buy more Rafales, but they might have to extend production of the indigenous Tejas to keep their fleet numbers up.

But the problem with India’s HAL Tejas is that it is one of the single worst fighter projects that has ever been conceived of in the history of aviation. Even as it enters service, the aircraft is obsolete and is probably inferior in many respects to the JF-17. The jet has 57 known deficiencies and will probably get a lot of Indian pilots killed if any type of conflict were ever to break out.


Meanwhile, the one bright spot for the Indian air force is the Sukhoi Su-30MKI. While the Indians have had some issues with the Russians in supporting the Flanker-H, the 220 Su-30s that are currently in service are that country’s first line of defense. India will ultimately buy 272 Flanker-H fighters, but it should give serious consideration to extending that buy until its air force recovers some of its numerical strength. Basically, India should consider scrapping the Tejas and buying 120 or more additional Flankers.

In the future, the Indians are likely to buy a derivative of Russia’s T-50 PAK-FA stealth fighter. But the Indian-Russian co-development effort is a rocky one—and it is unclear how many jets will ultimately be delivered to the Indian air force and when. India is also developing it’s own fifth-generation fighter—but given it’s previous efforts on the Tejas, it’s not likely to fly any time soon.


A 'Crash Landing': The Slow and Painful Death of India's Air Force | The National Interest Blog

Let the people say whatever they want but we add 16 MKIs at HAL and almost same numbers are imported from Russia. We have updated our old fleet to new standard to make them best available anywhere. It includes Mirage 2000, Jaguar and Mig 29. We are going to add 36 rafales and some 100 tejas with AESA, EW and loads of Aerodynamic improvements with 800 KG weight slashed. Even our Tejas shall be more than enough to take care of anything made in China.

 

[AyanRay]

Rafale, Typhoon, F-16 have these capabilities.

And so will Tejas, don't worry, but my question was does JF-17 have does capabilities. And the fighter jets you mentioned costs 3 to 6 times more than TEJAS.

ot possible because of size and space constraints.

Present radar cannot guide BVR missiles.

Ignored.

EWS is obsolete just like the aircraft itself. India needs a foreign EW suite.

Ignored

Then why are you wasting your time logging into a forum created by people of the country you find so shameless? Why don't you stop posting here? You won't because you are a natural hypocrite.

At least you agreed you are a Pakistani. So you also agree of being shameless

 

[GR!FF!N]

Tejas is obsolete.

LOL..Okkk..You should pay more tax then,so that we can buy 200+ 5th gen instead of "Obsolete Tejas" to use as Point Defense Fighter.

And which 250 4+ gen are you talking about?

Forgot how to read English??Indian Primary Education Department is always here to help..

It was "250+ 4th Gen",not "250 4+ gen".Yeh to lolwa ho gaya.

69 Mig-29
50 Mirage-2000/5
145 Jaguar(After Upgrade,it'll be as effective as 4th Gen)

 

[Indian Patriot]

And so will Tejas, don't worry, but my question was does JF-17 have does capabilities.

So if in your estimates the JF-17 does not allegedly have a capability it is ok for LCA tro follow suit? Is PAF the idol for IAF in your logic?

Ignored.

As expected from a brainless troll.

At least you agreed you are a Pakistani. So you also agree of being shameless

LOL!! Come up with something new instead of the old and tired false flagger allegations. And my question remains, if according to you Pakistanis are shameless why are you wasting time in a Pakistani forum?

@Slav Defence @waz

 

[AyanRay]

So if in your estimates the JF-17 does not allegedly have a capability it is ok for LCA tro follow suit? Is PAF the idol for IAF in your logic?



As expected from a brainless troll.



LOL!! Come up with something new instead of the old and tired false flagger allegations. And my question remains, if according to you Pakistanis are shameless why are you wasting time in a Pakistani forum?

@Slav Defence @waz

I never said Pakistanis are shameless, I said you being a false flagger is shameless.

And no PAF is not a idol, that's why we havnt inducted LCA yet, but you have 50 of them (J17). We will induct only after it is fully combat ready.

 

[Indian Patriot]

LOL..Okkk..You should pay more tax then,so that we can buy 200+ 5th gen instead of "Obsolete Tejas" to use as Point Defense Fighter

So you don't pay taxes?

Tejas is obsolete because it does not have mid-air refuelling, no BVR missile capability, no EW suite, only 400 km range and lack of substantial payload. But blind bhakts like you are too dumb.

It was "250+ 4th Gen",not "250 4+ gen".Yeh to lolwa ho gaya.

So to add to the lolwa why don't you mention which "250+" aircraft count as 4th gen in your dictionary.

I never said Pakistanis are shameless, I said you being a false flagger is shameless.

Listen here you brain dead moron. If you cannot have anything valid in your argument then just SHUT UP. Your claims of false flagger is past expiry date.

@waz @Jungibaaz @Irfan Baloch @mods Can we please put a moratorium on random posters resorting to "false flagger" accusations and derailing the thread? This thing is getting old and frankly annoying.

 

[GR!FF!N]

So you don't pay taxes?

Tejas is obsolete because it does not have mid-air refuelling, no BVR missile capability, no EW suite, only 400 km range and lack of substantial payload. But blind bhakts like you are too dumb.

Tejas Mk-1A will have all these..

Tejas(FOC) will have BVR capability.and 400 km is "Combat Radius"(Refueling Pod will extend it more).Even F-16 has 550 km Combat Radius.

M0r0ns know no bound of Ignorance.As a Tax payer,I'm more than happy that IAF is getting Tejas.I hate "Phoreign Mal" unless it is extremely necessary.

So to add to the lolwa why don't you mention which "250+" aircraft count as 4th gen in your dictionary.

Added already.

 

[Indian Patriot]

145 Jaguar(After Upgrade,it'll be as effective as 4th Gen)

How convenient. The only effective 4th gen aircraft is the Mirage 2000.

Tejas Mk-1A will have all these..

Will have, in the near future, some time real soon, anytime now.......... stop talking in future tense and talk about the present.

Tejas(FOC) will have BVR capability.and 400 km is "Combat Radius".Even F-16 has 550 km Combat Radius.

Tejas does not have BVR capability, period.

550 km is still better than 400 km. 550 km combat radius range is with 4 1000 lb bombs. What will be the radius with a lighter weight? But that is a moot point because F-16s have mid-air refueling capability which again is lacking in LCA.

M0r0ns know no bound of Ignorance.

You are a living example of that.

As a Tax payer,I'm more than happy that IAF is getting Tejas.I hate "Phoreign Mal" unless it is extremely necessary.

It is spelled foreign, but then I am expecting too much from you.

The fact that Tejas is absolutely obsolete is an extreme necessity that India inducts MODERN 4th gen jets instead of a dead project like Tejas.

Added already.

Which is again completely false. Jaguars as 4th gen aircraft, ROFLOL!!!

 

[HariPrasad]

Tejas lacks air-to-air refuelling

Shall come before FOC. Work is on.

Tejas cannot fire BVR range missiles

Shall come before FOC. Work is on.

Tejas does not have AESA radar

Even MKI and Rafale does not have AESA. Tejas has a very good MMR. AESA shall come in MK1+.

Tejas does not have electronic warfare suit

It is under testing in PV1. It shall come as a pod in MK1+.

Tejas has a limited operational range of 400-500 km which is practically useless

Tejas is not a deep penetration Aircraft. MK1 shall have marginally higher range. 500 Rdious is sufficient for the role of Tejas.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Let the people say whatever they want but we add 16 MKIs at HAL and almost same numbers are imported from Russia. We have updated our old fleet to new standard to make them best available anywhere. It includes Mirage 2000, Jaguar and Mig 29. We are going to add 36 rafales and some 100 tejas with AESA, EW and loads of Aerodynamic improvements with 800 KG weight slashed. Even our Tejas shall be more than enough to take care of anything made in China.

 

[GR!FF!N]

How convenient. The only effective 4th gen aircraft is the Mirage 2000.

LOL..

Will have, in the near future, some time real soon, anytime now.......... stop talking in future tense and talk about the present.

I that sense,you should whine in the "Future",not now,as Tejas isn't inducted yet..

Tejas does not have BVR capability, period.

which Period??3rd or 4th??

550 km is still better than 400 km. 550 km combat radius range is with 4 1000 lb bombs. What will be the radius with a lighter weight? But that is a moot point because F-16s have mid-air refueling capability which again is lacking in LCA.

Expecting performance of a Medium weight jet from a Light Jet is expecting same firepower of a Machine Gun from a Pistol.

You are a living example of that.

It is spelled foreign, but then I am expecting too much from you.

Only if you'd understand how people "Mock" you..

The fact that Tejas is absolutely obsolete is an extreme necessity that India inducts MODERN 4th gen jets instead of a dead project like Tejas.



Which is again completely false. Jaguars as 4th gen aircraft, ROFLOL!!!

one advice to you.Either Buy a fleet of F-22 for IAF with you money(No shame in that.During Civil War,many Generals raised their own funded Regiments),or stop whining as nobody will give a flying fkuc to your whine.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Shall come before FOC. Work is on.

Love your optimism. That is all I can say.

Tejas has a very good MMR. AESA shall come in MK1+.

Tejas cannot fire BVR missiles. And from where will the AESA radar appear for Mk1+?

It is under testing in PV1. It shall come as a pod in MK1+.

shall come, will come, most definitely come........ again going into future tense.

500 Rdious is sufficient for the role of Tejas.

Tejas does not even have a 500 km radius nor does it have mid-air refueling capabilities. Or will that also "shall come" with Mk1 upgrade?

I that sense,you should whine in the "Future",not now..

Poor response. Tejas in the present has no capability of flight, AESA radar, BVR missile, EW suite etc. So maybe you should wait for the future when your fantasies are fulfilled.

which Period??3rd or 4th??

Tejas would qualify as a 2nd gen figter because it was designed to replace migs and like the mig-21 it suffers from a lot of short comings.

Expecting performance of a Medium weight jet from a Light Jet is expecting same firepower of a Machine Gun from a Pistol.

So in your bright logic it is absolutely ok for Tejas not to have BVR capability, mid-air refuelling and all modern systems? You blind bhakts take trolling to a new level.

Only if you'd understand how people "Mock" you..

A fool like you who thinks Jaguar and Tejas are 4th gen aircraft should be more concerned how nature has mocked you

Do you even know what 4th gen means or is it something you discovered in PDF?

one advice to you.Either Buy a fleet of F-22 for IAF,or stop whining as nobody will give a flying fkuc to your whine.

One advice to you, if you cannot6 contribute anything to the thread then shut the hell up because nobody gives a flying fkuc to your whining and childish dreams.

Trolls like you are a living example that Sheikh Chilli and the khayali pulaw proverb still holds true today.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Poor response. Tejas in the present has no capability of flight, AESA radar, BVR missile, EW suite etc. So maybe you should wait for the future when your fantasies are fulfilled.

whiner..

Tejas would qualify as a 2nd gen figter because it was designed to replace migs and like the mig-21 it suffers from a lot of short comings.

whiner

So in your bright logic it is absolutely ok for Tejas not to have BVR capability, mid-air refuelling and all modern systems? You blind bhakts take trolling to a new level.

whiner

A fool like you who thinks Jaguar and Tejas are 4th gen aircraft should be more concerned how nature has mocked them.

Do you even know what 4th gen means or is it something you discovered in PDF?

whiner

One advice to you, if you cannot6 contribute anything to the thread then shut the hell up because nobody gives a flying fkuc to your whining and childish dreams.

Trolls like you are a living example that Sheikh Chilli and the khayali pulaw proverb still holds true today.

whiner..

The best reply I only conjure..as every quote is already got answered..I'm not going to waste any time anyway.