51% increase in unnecessary C-sections in Bangladesh

[UKBengali]

How did they work out the figure?
Hospitals are not going to volunteer this.

 

[Avicenna]

How did they work out the figure?
Hospitals are not going to volunteer this.

I dunno how it works in BD.

But they keep stats in the US.

 

[UKBengali]

I dunno how it works in BD.

But they keep stats in the US.

If the patients requested this when told not necessary then what is the problem?

 

[Avicenna]

If the patients requested this when told not necessary then what is the problem?

Its a complicated issue.

C-section is a surgical procedure with all its inherent risks.

In medicine you have to weigh the risks and benefits before any intervention.

There is also the matter of informed consent prior to this or any other procedure.

We don't really know the circumstances behind this reported trend.

So any response here would be uninformed other than generalities.

But C/S rate is something folks keep track of as its a big deal. (at least in the US)

 

[UKBengali]

Its a complicated issue.

C-section is a surgical procedure with all its inherent risks.

In medicine you have to weigh the risks and benefits before any intervention.

There is also the matter of informed consent prior to this or any other procedure.

We don't really know the circumstances behind this reported trend.

So any response here would be uninformed other than generalities.

But C/S rate is something folks keep track of as its a big deal. (at least in the US)

Looks like some dude posted something for no real educational gain, without realising that trolls will use this thread to bash BD.
Sometimes I wonder if BD posters think things through properly before creating threads about BD.

 

[Avicenna]

Looks like some dude posted something for no real educational gain, without realising that trolls will use this thread to bash BD.
Sometimes I wonder if BD posters think things through properly before creating threads about BD.

The article is fine.

It IS a problem.

But its a complicated one when you start looking at it.

You can't just blame all the docs in the country and call it a day.

 

[Nilgiri]

Again.

Try to understand.

People leave BD to get medical treatmeant. I get that.

But perhaps that's due to the general standards and condition of BD healthcare being substandard.

What you are saying is that the doctors are either lacking or not ethical.

I am not saying that this in not the case in some cases.

But your blanket statements are an injustice to those who ARE capable, ethical and generally try to do their best with what they have been given.

The condition of healthcare goes far beyond "doctors" in any country.

Your emotional responses are a bit much.

Sorry but bluesky is correct on this. If you label the 100% due to the 99% (or 90% or whatever huge percentage) being foul and "damage" the 1% in the process....so what? The 1% can speak and act for themselves on the matter...and keep the precipice just far away enough...but is that really fair burden for them and fair situation to not treat the 99% as the 100%?

In such odds (something close to 100% or 0% and it has huge negative effect) sometimes you got to approximate to the absolute to press the conversation appropriately.

BD medical field is in a wretched state. It is precisely why there is huge dissonance between what BD sends people wise to other countries and what it claims internally for its health metrics....sustaining the huge credibility gap it has generally.

One so called doctor in here rather spend huge amounts of time posting sermons about 1971, india and pakistan "attitude" and typical BD STRONK crap...that serves no purpose (Esp after he's done it 100 times already). He could be using that time much more wisely given state of his discipline in BD....but nope, the emotional priority is in here and has the priority. In the end its reflective of just what the deeper problem is.

BD has little to no institutional grounding...and little to no desire to fix it. The ones that always suffer the most from that are the ones that cannot have the luxury to tell you otherwise here.

 

[Avicenna]

Sorry but bluesky is correct on this. If you label the 100% due to the 99% (or 90% or whatever huge percentage) being foul and "damage" the 1% in the process....so what? The 1% can speak and act for themselves on the matter...and keep the precipice just far away enough...but is that really fair burden for them and fair situation to not treat the 99% as the 100%?

In such odds (something close to 100% or 0% and it has huge negative effect) sometimes you got to approximate to the absolute to press the conversation appropriately.

BD medical field is in a wretched state. It is precisely why there is huge dissonance between what BD sends people wise to other countries and what it claims internally for its health metrics....sustaining the huge credibility gap it has generally.

One so called doctor in here rather spend huge amounts of time posting sermons about 1971, india and pakistan "attitude" and typical BD STRONK crap...that serves no purpose (Esp after he's done it 100 times already). He could be using that time much more wisely given state of his discipline in BD....but nope, the emotional priority is in here and has the priority. In the end its reflective of just what the deeper problem is.

BD has little to no institutional grounding...and little to no desire to fix it. The ones that always suffer the most from that are the ones that cannot have the luxury to tell you otherwise here.

Uh no.

Not sure where you are getting your rhetorical, arbitrary numbers but its a systemic problem I agree.

BD healthcare SUCKS.

But that's not on the doctors.

It's on the law makers.

Individual docs have EXTREMELY limited ability to do anything but deliver care.

 

[Nilgiri]

Uh no.

Not sure where you are getting your rhetorical, arbitrary numbers but its a systemic problem I agree.

BD healthcare SUCKS.

But that's not on the doctors.

It's on the law makers.

Individual docs have EXTREMELY limited ability to do anything but deliver care.

First of all they are complicit if they don't speak up about it.

I don't follow the whole "blame the superiors but not the juniors" in any system...once an intense enough argued top-down anti-morality is shown esp over a long enough period.

Mashrafe Mortaza recently visited a govt hospital and got attacked for simply asking where the doctors (busy running private clinics on the side instead of showing up to the hospital) were.

You need to talk to people who have come into contact with enough BD doctors (esp in govt public hospitals that are responsible for 90%+ of the laypeople serious healthcare) to get an idea of the % in play.

 

[Avicenna]

First of all they are complicit if they don't speak up about it.

I don't follow the whole "blame the superiors but not the juniors" in any system...once an intense enough argued top-down anti-morality is shown esp over a long enough period.

Mashrafe Mortaza recently visited a govt hospital and got attacked for simply asking where the doctors (busy running private clinics on the side instead of showing up to the hospital) were.

You need to talk to people who have come into contact with enough BD doctors (esp in govt public hospitals that are responsible for 90%+ of the laypeople serious healthcare) to get an idea of the % in play.

I can't claim to know the facts on the ground in Bangladesh as I haven't stepped foot there since the early 90's.

But neither can you unless you've been there recently.

Also, in a "democracy" like the US, how many injustices or wrongs or whatever are standard operating procedure despite the outcry or protest of individual practitioners.

Its only when you get press and mass awareness that anything is done.

i.e. Resident duty work hour limitations after the death of Libby Zion.

Otherwise how many countless others died who wern't famous before her.

In this, yes US docs are complicit (governing bodies specifically), in that residents are essentially cheap labor.

Regardless, his arguement was a blanket statement that docs and for that matter educated people are demonic.

Whatever that means.

My arguement is that its not quite that simple.

Specifically regarding docs.

The medical system I agree sucks.

But again, that's way above the individual docs pay scale.

 

[Nilgiri]

But neither can you unless you've been there recently.

I talk to BD friends who visit regularly.

Also, in a "democracy" like the US,

Not saying this is a specific problem to BD. Just the degree is especially bad for multiple reasons and a lot more would have been done by now by the good/better doctors themselves if they were prevalent in enough numbers....given just how broken the system is and for how long.

So my take is they are simply not prevalent enough. The alternative to that explanation is simply an even more depressing one.

Regardless, his arguement was a blanket statement that docs and for that matter educated people are demonic.

He's talking in jest. Don't take it too seriously. One time he called for every single Indian refugee taking refuge across the border in BD termporarily from a flood in the area...to all be shot dead.

He has a special proclivity to use blanket statements to make a point (we all do at various points for whatever issue anyway)....its just his personality. I have long given him buffer on it (because he is a honest straight talker on lot of issues) and not nitpick too much past the message he's trying to get through....otherwise you simply cant carry a discourse at all.

 

[Avicenna]

I talk to BD friends who visit regularly.



Not saying this is a specific problem to BD. Just the degree is especially bad for multiple reasons and a lot more would have been done by now by the good/better doctors themselves if they were prevalent in enough numbers....given just how broken the system is and for how long.

So my take is they are simply not prevalent enough. The alternative to that explanation is simply an even more depressing one.



He's talking in jest. Don't take it too seriously. One time he called for every single Indian refugee taking refuge across the border in BD termporarily from a flood in the area...to all be shot dead.

He has a special proclivity to use blanket statements to make a point (we all do at various points for whatever issue anyway)....its just his personality. I have long given him buffer on it (because he is a honest straight talker on lot of issues) and not nitpick too much past the message he's trying to get through....otherwise you simply cant carry a discourse at all.

Fair enough.

 

[bluesky]

What you are saying is that the doctors are either lacking or not ethical.

When no one in the BD schools is taught ethics why do you think doctors know about ethical values? Grow up a little older when you may get really sick with acute diseases while living in Bangladesh. That time will show how frantically you go to India, Singapore or Thailand.

I have seen a doctor in BD who prescribed medicine for cholesterol when the patient was suffering from strong diabetes. If he dies of wrong treatment the doctor would say, "এটা আল্লার ইচ্ছা ছিল।" "It was the wish of Allah". How about America, can a doctor blame God to shed off his own responsibility?There are a trillion miles of difference between a society with a modern outlook and a society with superstitious beliefs.

This happens only in those societies where superstitions have been made a part of religious rituals. This is why people in BD flock to nearby India where the doctors are taught ethics and they learn medicines full time instead of staying full time on the prayer mats.

 

[Avicenna]

When no one in the BD schools is taught ethics why do you think doctors know about ethical values? Grow up a little older when you may get really sick with acute diseases while living in Bangladesh. That time will show how frantically you go to India, Singapore or Thailand.

I have seen a doctor in BD who prescribed medicine for cholesterol when the patient was suffering from strong diabetes. If he dies of wrong treatment the doctor would say, "এটা আল্লার ইচ্ছা ছিল।" "It was the wish of Allah". How about America, can a doctor blame God to shed off his own responsibility?There are a trillion miles of difference between a society with a modern outlook and a society with superstitious beliefs.

This happens only in those societies where superstitions have been made a part of religious rituals. This is why people in BD flock to nearby India where the doctors are taught ethics and they learn medicines full time instead of staying full time on the prayer mats.

You're not a physician so you have limited knowledge regarding the practice of medicine.

Prescribing cholesterol meds can be a part of diabetes management.

Diabetes puts one at STRONG risk for coronary artery disease.

I won't get into specifics, but my point is you have very limited knowledge for you to be making the pronouncements that you do in your posts regarding this.

Also taking an ethics course is a matter of taking a class and some exams.

True ethics come from within. i.e. do right by the patient.

You are carpet bombing a whole group with your ridiculous statements.

I'm not saying things aren't bad in Bangladesh.

You definitely have more insight into the ground reality than I do.

But I can speak for myself as an American schooled Bengali doc as well as for basically half my family who are Bangladeshi schooled docs who practice in the US.

There isn't much difference between Bengali docs and others in terms of individuals.

System yes you can make that argument.

But to say somehow Bangladeshi schooled docs are deficient or for that matter different from other ethnicities in anyway....

No way.

 

[khansaheeb]

I work in the Nhs bro and doing an unnecessary procedure on a patient can create serious problems for the surgeon and the hospital.

They were using it as a form of birth control in the UK, patients would be told that the maxium number of kids through c-sections is 3 before it becomes life threatening for the mother.