5 old pictures of Palestine that Hillary Clinton needs to see

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

5 old pictures of Palestine that Hillary Clinton needs to see
​

MAY 11TH, 2016 9:44AM

United States presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has made no secret of her love for Israel, jumping on every opportunity to pledge her support in all circumstances.

But the Democratic front-runner has now trotted out a tired old trope: “The Jewish state is a modern day miracle—a vibrant bloom in the middle of a desert—and we must nurture and protect it.”

Clinton said that line in a letter to David and Susie Stern, according to Mondoweiss. The letter was yet another pledge from Clinton to oppose the Boycott, Divest and Sanctions (BDS) Movement – or any other effort to hold Israel accountable for its decades long occupation of Palestinian lands.

While Clinton might be under the impression that the Zionists arrived in a deserted Palestine and “made it bloom,” that is the result of decades of Israeli propaganda designed to minimize Palestinian claims to the land.

Here’s 5 images from the United States Library of Congress, so that Clinton can see that Palestine was no desert wilderness before the formation of the state of Israel:

Source: LOC

Native of Palestine working with an ox and an ***, Holy Land, circa 1890-1900.

Source: LOC

Nebi-Samuel, circa 1890.

Source: LOC

Panoramic view, Tiberias, circa 1890-1900.

Source: LOC

General view of the well of David, Bethlehem, 1890-1900.

Source: LOC

Hebron, 1890-1900.

Unfortunately, this is how it’s become:

Source: Flickr

Separation barrier in West Bank, near Khirbet el-Maqatir.

http://stepfeed.com/more-categories...at-hillary-clinton-needs-to-see/#.VzUl9WOYX-Y

@Falcon29

 

[SQ8]

Only 1 important aspect that Palestinians need to see. There is a greater brotherhood between the Zionist Jews and the Evangelical US politicians due to their common roots , and greater financial ties.
They could not care less about every Palestinian being jailed in a 2x3 box or burnt alive to a crisp.

 

[bsruzm]

I don't want to offend Arabic people here but Hilary doesn't need to see these, she wouldn't give a f*ck already. It is people here, who need to see these... All these beautiful picture's you've posted, are from Ottoman era.

I will post some, too now:

Ramle Martyrdom of Turkey, where more than 3000 Turkish martyr's of WWI lie
Location: Ramle, Palestine(Israel):

Beer Sheva Martyrdom of Turkey, where 298 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Beer Sheva, Palestine(Israel)

Gaza Martyrdom of Turkey, where 184 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Gaza, Palestine

Zeytindağı Martyrdom of Turkey, where more than 2550 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Jerusalem, Palestine(Israel)

290 more Turkish martyr's also lie in a Turkish-Indian graveyard:

These men(!) lost their lives to prevent such tyranny, barbarism.

_____

Palestine "Jerusalem, Jaffa, Acre, Beersheba" between 1890-1910's from Ottoman archives:

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

I don't want to offend Arabic people here but Hilary doesn't need to see these, she wouldn't give a f*ck already. It is people here, who need to see these. All these beautiful picture's you've posted, are from Ottoman era.

I will post some, too now:

Ramle Martyrdom of Turkey, where more than 3000 Turkish martyr's of WWI lie
Location: Ramle, Palestine(Israel):

Beer Sheva Martyrdom of Turkey, where 298 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Beer Sheva, Palestine(Israel)

Gaza Martyrdom of Turkey, where 184 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Gaza, Palestine

Zeytindağı Martyrdom of Turkey, where more than 2550 Turkish martyr's lie
Location: Jerusalem, Palestine(Israel)

290 more Turkish martyr's also lie in a Turkish-Indian graveyard:

These men(!) lost their lives to prevent such tyranny, barbarism, lost their lives for their religion, state and brother's.

What is today Palestine/Israel was part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years but the locals remained local Palestinian Arabs. Those 5 photos show Palestinian cities which were built by Palestinians and which were maintained by them. Similarly when what is today Palestine/Israel was ruled by Arab dynasties directly (jurisdiction of the land) in the form of Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid Caliphates and the Famitid Empire etc. for approximately 1000 years, before the Ottoman emerged, the same was the case. Before the Islamic period as well although successive rulers all left their marker which is normal.

The point here is merely that Palestine was not a desolate region of the world, as many Zionists want it to appear like, before 1947. It obviously was not as developed as it is today (which is only normal) and it was much more sparsely populated as well.

Also speaking about the Ottoman Empire, you should have in mind that Arabs where the largest ethnic group in the Ottoman Empire and that Arabs played an important role on all fronts and that many Arab soldiers fought for the Ottomans for the 400 years that they had a presence in the Arab world. People of different ethnicities but the same religion (Muslim) fought under the same banner just like they did in previous Caliphates and Empires in the region.

Anyway regardless of who ruled what and when, the locals where the defining element of Palestine always. We should not forget this. Nor was Palestine ever a desolate region. That land is home to dozens of ancient pre-Semitic civilizations from the Neolithic period, Semitic civilizations etc. When Romans/Byzantines reached that region of the world it was already significant and home to a lot of history and a great past.

 

[bsruzm]

Anyway regardless of who ruled what and when, the locals where the defining element of Palestine always. We should not forget this.

How come I forget that? I had a lot of great conversation's with Palestinian people about it

 

[HAIDER]

Arab betray Turks and ....now...

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

Arab betray Turks and ....now...

Palestine was at its highest during the rule of the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid Caliphates and the Fatimid Empire. Most of the monuments originate from that period as well. Likewise the region was very stable and peaceful (Islamic Golden Age) expect for a few mostly unsuccessful Crusades and the devastation of the Mongols who ultimately got defeated in Sham and expelled from the MENA region altogether.

When the Ottomans took the Caliphate from the Arabs some 500 years ago nobody was screaming about "treason" despite 1000 years of previous Arab rule. It was simply the natural downfall of an Empire/Caliphate (Abbasid) that after almost 800 years had seen its downfall long ago/expiry date. Nobody is to blame for that but the Arabs/Muslims of that time. The Ottomans took the opportunity (it could have been anyone else if history was different) and became the successor state. Nothing wrong with that.

You do realize that most of the people in the Ottoman empire were Arab and that Arabs played a key role in most sectors of the Ottoman Empire? Or the fact that Arabs worked together with Turks for most of the shared 400 year old history (during the Ottomans - Arabs and Turks have a much longer shared history together)? When the Arab Revolt happened, the Ottoman Empire was falling apart and several people, including Muslims in Balkans (Albanians etc.) had rebelled and gained full independence. Likewise numerous Arab kingdoms, sultanates, sheikdoms, emirates, imamates remained pro-Ottoman during the Arab Revolt.

You completely forget the fact that many people in today's Turkey wanted reforms or the removal of the Ottoman Empire. In fact Ataturk was the one who officially abolished the Caliphate and prevented the Caliph from being a symbolic figure. Not any Arabs. Nor did any Arab create the Young Turk Movement, nor did Arabs spread Western concepts of nationalism into the Ottoman Empire etc. which inspired the Young Turk Movement and later the Arab Revolt and other movements in the ME from Iran to Morocco.

The downfall of every empire is its own doing ultimately regardless of what empire we talk about throughout history.

Lastly, Jews were already moving into Palestine during the Ottoman period. The problem already emerged back then.

Your view of history is simplistic and as usual you are too focused/obsessed about Arabs, it seems. An advice, go read a few history books about the region instead of looking at things in a purely white or black fashion. History is 1000 times more complex than that.

I am sure that @Falcon29 being the only Palestinian user here, can add useful information to this thread and clear any doubts.

 

[HAIDER]

Palestine was at its highest during the rule of the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid Caliphates and the Fatimid Empire. Most of the monuments originate from that period as well. Likewise the region was very stable and peaceful (Islamic Golden Age) expect for a few mostly unsuccessful Crusades and the devastation of the Mongols who ultimately got defeated in Sham and expelled from the MENA region altogether.

When the Ottomans took the Caliphate from the Arabs some 500 years ago nobody was screaming about "treason" despite 1000 years of previous Arab rule. It was simply the natural downfall of an Empire/Caliphate (Abbasid) that after almost 800 years had seen its downfall long ago/expiry date. Nobody is to blame for that but the Arabs/Muslims of that time. The Ottomans took the opportunity (it could have been anyone else if history was different) and became the successor state. Nothing wrong with that.

You do realize that most of the people in the Ottoman empire were Arab and that Arabs played a key role in most sectors of the Ottoman Empire? Or the fact that Arabs worked together with Turks for most of the shared 400 year old history (during the Ottomans - Arabs and Turks have a much longer shared history together)? When the Arab Revolt happened, the Ottoman Empire was falling apart and several people, including Muslims in Balkans (Albanians etc.) had rebelled and gained full independence. Likewise numerous Arab kingdoms, sultanates, sheikdoms, emirates, imamates remained pro-Ottoman during the Arab Revolt.

You completely forget the fact that many people in today's Turkey wanted reforms or the removal of the Ottoman Empire. In fact Ataturk was the one who officially abolished the Caliphate and prevented the Caliph from being a symbolic figure. Not any Arabs. Nor did any Arab create the Young Turk Movement, nor did Arab spread Western concepts of nationalism into the Ottoman Empire etc.

The downfall of every empire is its own doing ultimately regardless of what empire we talk about throughout history.

Lastly, Jews were already moving into Palestine during the Ottoman period. The problem already emerged back then.

Your view of history is simplistic and as usual you are too focused/obsessed about Arabs, it seems. An advice, go read a few history books about the region instead of looking at things in a purely white or black fashion. History is 1000 times more complex than that.

I am sure that @Falcon29 being the only Palestinian user here, can add useful information to this thread and clear any doubts.

AtaTurk had political and regional influence on Palastine during his era ? . So, basically small caravans of jews start settling in Palastine during his era ?

 

[bsruzm]

Arab betray Turks and ....now...

It was a great war. We lost it but kept our heads high. I am proud of the past, though focused on future and more interested in it. This wasn't my point but people need to see the reality, it's definitely not Hilary.

In fact Ataturk was the one who officially abolished the Caliphate and prevented the Caliph from being a symbolic figure.

I am glad, he abolished and prevent it being "symbolic figure".

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

AtaTurk had political and regional influence on Palastine during his era ? . So, basically small caravans of jews start settling in Palastine during his era ?

Palestine was inhabited by locals expect for a few Ottoman military garrisons in the main cities. Land was owned by local rulers/landowners. Nevertheless it was land under Ottoman authority de jure. Exact same story during previous Caliphates, Empires, Kingdoms etc. Be it in Islamic or pre-Islamic times.

Jews, who were mostly based in Eastern Europe and Arab World/Ottoman Empire, were migrating to Palestine at a small rate but this changed for the worse when the Zionism movement emerged. Google World Zionist Organization, Theodor Herzl etc. Some Palestinian landowners sold some of their land to Jews (lands were exchanging hands between different peoples all over the Arab world back then, so for instance Christians buying Muslim land or vice versa was not considered a rarity in Sham) while others got their land outright confiscated. Nobody in their wildest dreams could have predicted the foundation of Israel 70 years later.

Large-scale Jewish migration from across the region and Europe began in the early 1880's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

Later came the British Mandate which was extremely pro-Zionist and then the Israeli state in 1948.

Almost every single Palestinian family had branches of their family who lived in what is today Israeli before many/most were expelled into the West Bank and Gaza after 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

It's a complicated matter and there is a reason why the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is known as the "Mother of All Conflicts".

Also we can continue to say "what if this had happened instead" etc. and use that logic with all history. What if the Arabs/Moors had not been defeated in Al-Andalus (Spain, Portugal) after 800 years of rule? If so would the Ottoman Empire have welcomed the fleeing Muslims, including the many fleeing Jews who were banished as well? If not would the Jews have had a similar presence in Sham prior to the creation of the Zionism movement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

Would things have been handled differently had the events in Palestine during the 1940's been different? Would this below have occurred?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Would Israel even have existed if not for the Holocaust and WW2? Or pogroms in the Soviet Union/Eastern Europe before that?

Or without the many extremely wealthy Jewish families like Rothschild etc. who donated billions worth of money in today's currency to the Zionist cause?

It was the Allied Powers who were pushing for Israel's creation after WW2 and before that, not any Arabs. In fact without Arab resistance Israel would have been formed many decades prior to 1948. So blaming Arabs for Israel's creation is like blaming ordinary Iraqis for the US invasion in 2003.

Could Jews and Palestinians have shared today's Israel/Palestine with each other (one federal state) had their mutual history in the past 130 years or so been different? Something tells me that a political solution would have been possible as Arabs/Muslim and Jews already had lived side by side for centuries beforehand.

Lot's of questions and few answers.

So once again, history is a very complicated subject and its usually simpletons or people with an agenda who look at such complicated events in a purely white/black manner.

How come I forget that? I had a lot of great conversation's with Palestinian people about it

I am curious to hear what @Falcon29 has to say about all this. After all it is his peoples history and land that we are discussing although we Arabs consider Palestine and Palestinians as our people and I know that most Muslims have a special place for Palestine for obvious reasons as well.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

The sooner we learn to get out of this Pally mess the better.

just try to analyze history.

All around us we see Pally people wanting special treatment, and to support them and for this great war against Israel.

Have you ever seen any pally leave their comfortable lives and do some thing about this palestine they harp about ?

It is emotional blackmail and guilt tripping these pallys use. Get rid of this . The world is too big lets exist together peacefully and move forward.

 

[500]

...

Check pics of Hebron, Tiberias, Bethlehem - look like small villages.

Unfortunately, this is how it’s become:

This is how it became:

Arab Population is up from 400 k to 5.5 million.
Life expectancy is up from 25 years to 75 years.

 

[Timur]

Only 1 important aspect that Palestinians need to see. There is a greater brotherhood between the Zionist Jews and the Evangelical US politicians due to their common roots , and greater financial ties.
They could not care less about every Palestinian being jailed in a 2x3 box or burnt alive to a crisp.

absolutly right..

but not only evangelical politicians you should say christian politicians in common..

if they belive more they will support israel stronger for them it is their soulution .. its their end times prophecies..

and a hillary clintion does not have to see anything its like an ant showing some pictures of its family so humans wont build their houses over them..

they are friends and allies of each other and muslims cannot be their allies and friends.. if they do so they are not one of us

 

[Falcon29]

Only 1 important aspect that Palestinians need to see. There is a greater brotherhood between the Zionist Jews and the Evangelical US politicians due to their common roots , and greater financial ties.
They could not care less about every Palestinian being jailed in a 2x3 box or burnt alive to a crisp.

The younger generation does not show any signs of religious belonging, I believe the religious basis/grounds on which ties are formed will no longer be a thing in the future. Even present, is it that some politicians and religious figures put on an act? Do they actually believe having an alliance with one country will bring about 'Jesus's coming'? No, nobody believes that.

Once the Middle East becomes a secular region, that is more productive, US will jump aboard and Israel will become less important to them.

Hillary herself bets big contributions from Haim Saban, all her statements on Israel/Palestine are related to making his money's worth.

I am curious to hear what @Falcon29 has to say about all this. After all it is his peoples history and land that we are discussing although we Arabs consider Palestine and Palestinians as our people and I know that most Muslims have a special place for Palestine for obvious reasons as well.

He's stuck in the past, I don't like addressing the past. Life requires us to move on, we can't keep grieving over historical figures and realities. It's odd that Israel pitched a memorial for Turkey, even though the British who supported the Arabs were also the British who finalized an agreement to create Israel. At the time where the Ottoman Empire was being actively disfigured, the talks were taking place. Empire's are thing of past and irrelevant nowadays.

absolutly right..

but not only evangelical politicians you should say christian politicians in common..

if they belive more they will support israel stronger for them it is their soulution .. its their end times prophecies..

and a hillary clintion does not have to see anything its like an ant showing some pictures of its family so humans wont build their houses over them..

they are friends and allies of each other and muslims cannot be their allies and friends.. if they do so they are not one of us

Nobody believes in 'end time prophecies' anymore, the Western population is not religious.

Check pics of Hebron, Tiberias, Bethlehem - look like small villages.

What was the point of your post, again? There were villages and cities, all your posts indicates is that the world has modernized and population has drastically increased. Your post is spam if you don't make a point.

.....
.....

PS: Made a thread long ago containing images of Palestinian towns, cities and villages, and what life was like:

https://defence.pk/threads/palestine-in-photos.306786/

..
..

Anyway, I believe a one state solution should occur imminently, with no right of return for Palestinian refugees, but also no more 'eliyah' or migration of Jewish settler communities into the West Bank.

Or a two state solution on 67 borders with international presence.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

The younger generation does not show any signs of religious belonging, I believe the religious basis/grounds on which ties are formed will no longer be a thing in the future. Even present, is it that some politicians and religious figures put on an act? Do they actually believe having an alliance with one country will bring about 'Jesus's coming'? No, nobody believes that.

Once the Middle East becomes a secular region, that is more productive, US will jump aboard and Israel will become less important to them.

Hillary herself bets big contributions from Haim Saban, all her statements on Israel/Palestine are related to making his money's worth.



He's stuck in the past, I don't like addressing the past. Life requires us to move on, we can't keep grieving over historical figures and realities. It's odd that Israel pitched a memorial for Turkey, even though the British who supported the Arabs were also the British who finalized an agreement to create Israel. At the time where the Ottoman Empire was being actively disfigured, the talks were taking place. Empire's are thing of past and irrelevant nowadays.



Nobody believes in 'end time prophecies' anymore, the Western population is not religious.



What was the point of your post, again? There were villages and cities, all your posts indicates is that the world has modernized and population has drastically increased. Your post is spam if you don't make a point.

.....
.....

PS: Made a thread long ago containing images of Palestinian towns, cities and villages, and what life was like:

https://defence.pk/threads/palestine-in-photos.306786/

..
..

Anyway, I believe a one state solution should occur imminently, with no right of return for Palestinian refugees, but also no more 'eliyah' or migration of Jewish settler communities into the West Bank.

Or a two state solution on 67 borders with international presence.

I agree. We need to look towards the future and focus on that rather than the past. The past should never be forgotten though and the good deeds and things from past eras should be cherished and protected but more than anything, the past should serve as a lesson for future actions and policies.

I believe that Arabs and Muslims in general are too much focused on the past which often brings nothing good for them.

Great thread. Just visited. It should be moved to the Arab section though and its time to update it a bit, I believe.

I covered much of Palestine in this thread below as well.

https://defence.pk/threads/the-arabian-peninsula-and-arab-world-in-photos.280918/page-46

I am quite surprised to hear you advocating for a two-state solution and moreover no right of return for Palestinian refugees who prior to 1948 inhabited what is today Israel. Or maybe your preferred vision is a federal state with free population movements? That might work but I believe that most do not support this vision currently and for that to even become a reality Israeli state policies need to seriously change on almost every front. It also appears to me that most Israelis nowadays have become much more radical in the sense that many do not even recognize the right of Palestinian to self-determination.

Check pics of Hebron, Tiberias, Bethlehem - look like small villages.

This is how it became:

Arab Population is up from 400 k to 5.5 million.
Life expectancy is up from 25 years to 75 years.

The photos that I shared are almost 130 years old. It makes no sense to compare how those cities look today as it is obvious that the world has changed a lot in the past 130 years. I think that you can find such changes all across the world.

Same with population growth. How big was the Jewish population in Palestine/Israel in the 1880's? Probably not even more than 200.000 people. Today there are 7 million Israeli Jews.

Also I doubt that life expectancy was merely 25 years in Palestine 130 years ago but even if we assume that (highly doubtful) its also completely natural for life expectancies in the past 130 years to have risen rapidly. You can see this development all across the world.

The point once again was merely to show that Palestine was not a desolate place at all prior to the foundation of Israel. Of course village life was at it was but it was the same whether in the Arab world or Europe. I seriously doubt that there was much of a big difference between a village in say Syria 130 years ago and a village in Ukraine 130 years ago.

@Bilad al-Haramayn

The sooner we learn to get out of this Pally mess the better.

just try to analyze history.

All around us we see Pally people wanting special treatment, and to support them and for this great war against Israel.

Have you ever seen any pally leave their comfortable lives and do some thing about this palestine they harp about ?

It is emotional blackmail and guilt tripping these pallys use. Get rid of this . The world is too big lets exist together peacefully and move forward.

Because Palestinians are our brethren that we share almost everything in common with and because their cause is a righteous one. We are the same people. Our paths have just developed in a different direction (modern nation states that divided the Arab world and region) but their faith could just as well have occurred for any other Arab people if the Zionists had handpicked another part of the Arab world. I feel a sympathy for Palestinians whether they are Muslim, Christians or Atheists. We as Arabs, not exactly being free of problems, oppression, foreign meddling etc. in the past decades, can relate to them.
Besides every single movement and people in the world have faults but those who commit them (their representatives) are always a small minority among their people and the common man and woman always pays the highest price.

I guess that you share the same sentiments in regards to Kashmir? I would be surprised if you do.