3000 reconverted to Hinduism in Odisha

[Not Sure]

It's simple mate -

the highest sin according to Abrahmic is polytheism and idol worshipping.

History bears witness how they have persecuted people who do the above with utmost brutality.

So there are two choices before me - either I do nothing, wait for the numbers to fall below a certain point and then start living as dhimmi or I push back now.

The choice is really really simple.

Every civilization has an innate right to self-preserve. Those who forsake it, simply perished from the face of earth.

I agree with your core point that forced conversion, if they happen, dont gel with the tenets of Hinduism..but as they say, desperate times call for desperate measures. When dealing with the Abrahmic religions hell bent on increasing their numbers by hook or by crook, there is no choice except getting to the lowest common denominator. And all this under the assumption that VHP *does*indulge in coerced conversions as is alleged.

And you are right in your position KS. For anything that threatens you or your identity, you ought to push back. And fighting against the forces that try to change you is not against any principle of Hinduism. Even Gita was spoken when there seemed no other solution than a costly war. Arjun could not evaluate the worth of his victory when achieved by the culling of such a large population of Bharat. But Krishna told him that truth has to prevail, and it looks upon him to uphold it.

I am not saying that we should just sit quiet as others do to us whatever they want to without our consent - that would actually go against the principles of Hinduism, and as our duty, we ought to fight back, with whatever means we find at our disposal - as happened in Mahabharat.

However, after the war, everyone except Yudhisthir went to spend some time in hell, didn't they? That happened because they had compromised with the means and principles to achieve their goals. They had altered their own characters in order to win their respective battles.

All I am saying is that Hinduism recognizes the way to God as the one that does not contain hatred/dissent against anything or anyone. After that, no matter what a path one employs to spirituality, it has the same destiny. Thus, the criticism of idolators makes their belief in God fake, doesn't it?

So as long as someone is making efforts to reach out to God without any malice against others, then it is no different from a Vashnavite or a Buddhist meditating in a secluded place to attain nirvana.

You are in fact right in everything you posited, but just remember - In a Dharm Yuddha, it strictly has to be either a complete victory, or a complete defeat. We cannot afford to be flexible and compromising of our own beliefs - that would harm us more than the outsiders.

 

[KS]

I think we are speaking the same language except very minor differences.

All I am saying is that Hinduism recognizes the way to God as the one that does not contain hatred/dissent against anything or anyone. After that, no matter what a path one employs to spirituality, it has the same destiny. Thus, the criticism of idolators makes their belief in God fake, doesn't it?

Are 'they' ready to understand that ? That is where the conflict starts.

Moreover its just not about spirituality and God to them. It is also about power and the inevitable foray into politics and dictating not just how they live but also how others must live

So as long as someone is making efforts to reach out to God without any malice against others, then it is no different from a Vashnavite or a Buddhist meditating in a secluded place to attain nirvana.

Completely agreed.

Minorities must be afforded the highest protection and the right to dissent must always be preserved. But that is only possible if the Indic religions stay as a majority.

Moreover another thing is Indian civilization is essentially a Dharmic civilization and hence if that is to survive then the numbers must be there.

You are in fact right in everything you posited, but just remember - In a Dharm Yuddha, it strictly has to be either a complete victory, or a complete defeat. We cannot afford to be flexible and compromising of our own beliefs - that would harm us more than the outsiders.

I know it sounds paradoxical - but intolerance of intolerance is not exactly intolerance, right ?

Plus Ram did stay behind the bushes to kill Vali right ?

 

[Not Sure]

I know it sounds paradoxical - but intolerance of intolerance is not exactly intolerance, right ?

Plus Ram did stay behind the bushes to kill Vali right ?

You are right smartypants

But do remember, by the time Raavan was done with, Ram's own character had changed. For the life of a prince, he easily could be the tragedy king.

 

[JonAsad]

is there any concept of conversion or re conversion in hinduism?-

 

[KS]

You are right smartypants

But do remember, by the time Raavan was done with, Ram's own character had changed. For the life of a prince, he easily could be the tragedy king.

Im just saying - Let us be a mirror and reflect what stands in front of us.

BTW what you are doing in Burkina Faso..are you one of those who work in a bank and has a client who has left behind 11 million and invites random people to share the treasure with ?

is there any concept of conversion or re conversion in hinduism?-

It did not used to be there..but there have been instances in the past where it has been practised.

 

[bangbros]

oh god again this who is converting to what kind of story....

 

[Contrarian]

The question is which religion most undermines India's integrity as a nation.
Dharmic religions dont do.

The answer is either Islam or Christianity. Which of the two has more potential to destabilize India.

So VHP or other Hindu organizations would focus on reconversion from that religion.

@KS

 

[Mritunjaya]

This definition is a bit too narrow to include those who do it for numbers, or those who try to impose it on others. When Sanatan Dharm evolved, there was no competition, nor was the religion taken as a means to spread a certain culture or lifestyle, as happened in the propagation of Abrahmic religions.

There can be NO EVOLUTION WITHOUT COMPETITION, that is one of the fundamental principles of evolution. You are wrong ...when Sanatan Dharm evolved there was enough competition from within. Tolerance for that competition was the very reason for such higher state of evolution of Sanatan Dharma.

...and this is the very reason why Islam and Christianity will never evolve. ..they have no tolerance for any other school of thought. Its an evolutionary dead end.

So per those criteria, those who approach someone uninvited, and lay down specific rules on how to begin and follow their own spiritual journey, are on the wrong path.

There is no such 'criteria'.....that 'criteria' is a figment of your imagination.

For example, Gautam Siddhartha taught a completely different philosophy on how to attain nirvana, but never imposed it on others. He is considered the 9th avatar of Vishnu, because he showed a way that people voluntarily followed.

Gautama Siddharthat a.k.a Buddha taught a similar philosophy that was already know to Hinduism and Jainism........it was a variation of some of the themes built on existing Hindu/Jain philosophies.

Buddha is considered the 9th Avatar of Vishnu for the same reasons. i.e. his philosophies were already part of Hindu philosophy.

However, we (VHP et al) have ended up becoming reactionary to the invasion by the Abrahmic religions. To counter this invasion, we have begun to use the same tactics applied by the adversaries, and that puts us on same level as theirs. In doing so, we have forgotten our own values and learned to define ourselves on their scale.

Aggression have to be fought or like Afghanistan, Pakistan or Bangladesh which used to be predominant Buddhist, India too will loose its Identity. VHP fighting tactics does mirror image those of Abrahmic religions because that is the only way to fight this loosing battle.

And what do we see? Females getting criticized for the way they dress. Entire honor of the family is thrown down upon the female members as we curtail their freedom by questioning their character. Homosexuality has turned into such a taboo. And well, this entire thread is about nudity, as if everyone has got something too unique inside their clothes. All such needless values came from those followers of Abraham who decided to use Islam and Christianity to rule over the adherents.

We are different from them, and as any other group, we are unique. Just as we should not criticize others for the way they follow their path to spirituality, we should not give in to the cultural pressure either. That uniqueness is integral to our identity, and no one can take it away from us, only we can, when we decide to define ourselves on their terms.

Females getting criticized is a social / cultural issue which stems from general lawlessness in the land. It is societies way of protecting vulnerable members in absence of a relevant police force and strong judiciary that protects rights of the vulnerable. It is foolish to blame religion for it.

Abrahamic religions were developed in a harsh, savage land ...and when they came to India they brought their Barbarism with them. This forced an evolutionary response from the more civilized land like India and society restructured to protect itself. Its a defense mechanism.

We can define ourselves on our terms when we are safe and secure to live life on our terms. That is what VHP is trying to do.

 

[A1Kaid]

Who said Hinduism doesnt allow re-conversion ?

Hinduism allows everything. You can be a Hindu even without worshipping/believing any of the Gods. Yes that's right, Hinduism considers even atheism as legitimate. Atheism in Hinduism

What you do in Hinduism is between God and you. No boring mullah or pastor or rabbi to dictate anything to you.

We know in Hinduism you can believe anything you want because truth doesn't matter it's what you want to believe in that matters.

 

[KS]

The question is which religion most undermines India's integrity as a nation.
Dharmic religions dont do.

The answer is either Islam or Christianity. Which of the two has more potential to destabilize India.

So VHP or other Hindu organizations would focus on reconversion from that religion.

@KS

This is a controversial topic better not discussed here.

Hope you understand.

 

[Solomon2]

Judaism is another such exclusive club. To be a Jew one needs to be born of a Jewish mother.

Non-Jews can and do convert to Orthodox Judaism and I know a handful of these personally. Conversion is not the instant thing it is in Islam but a process of sponsored study, learning, and committment - though for men circumcision is another requirement (even if you've already had one!)

 

[Contrarian]

This is a controversial topic better not discussed here.

Hope you understand.

Indeed....

 

[Mritunjaya]

Non-Jews can and do convert to Orthodox Judaism and I know a handful of these personally. Conversion is not the instant thing it is in Islam but a process of sponsored study, learning, and committment - though for men circumcision is another requirement (even if you've already had one!)

Do such Jews get automatic citizenship of Israel ?

 

[rockstarIN]

We know in Hinduism you can believe anything you want because truth doesn't matter it's what you want to believe in that matters.

Truth is subjective and perspective, but what he meant is about karma, duty..your duty is worship and prayer.

 

[RazPaK]

In the future, all of India's Muslims will convert to Hinduism and be regarded as Dalits.